#indieweb 2019-11-08

2019-11-08 UTC
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[KevinMarks] No, posse from known doesn't work any more and I'd need to build my own
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[snarfed] [KevinMarks] bridgy publish?
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mblaney [KevinMarks] you can POSSE from blufftech.com using bridgy publish, click one checkbox on a post to send to twitter :-)
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aaronpk I've also found myself less interested in POSSEing *all* my posts to Twitter, so there are definitely some posts on my site that exist only there and not twitter
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GWG Okay, that's done. https://david.shanske.com/2019/11/07/airplane-wifi-location-tracking-to-tasker-to-compass/
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[jgmac1106] [KevinMarks] you were probably using Convoy I bet you could add the Twitter plugin
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[tantek] aaronpk, since you get/show/respond to responses on your own site, you're more able to do that
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[tantek] I'm still sorta depending on threaded POSSE replies for dialog 😕
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[tantek] though TBH I have definitely had thoughts that I felt like "only" posting on my site, ok with a more limited "public" by default
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[tantek] like things I may want to "think out loud publicly" about but have no reason to blast it out to all Twitter followers
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[tantek] cool: https://jotter.space/ (via adactio) - offline notetaking web app
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[chrisaldrich] GWG++ for airplane location tracking
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Loqi GWG has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (145 in all channels)
[dougbeal], gRegorLove, MattJ, sp1ff1, wolftune, dougbeal|iOS, bltavares_, swentel, deathrow1, patteroni, jihaisse, fauno, vrih, yoroy, RenAmamiyaDiscor, swentel_, [LewisCowles], patterson, asymptotically, vbDiscord[m], [chrisbergr], mblaney1, [grantcodes], gxt, [jgmac1106] and jeremych_ joined the channel; MattJ left the channel
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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swentel jamietanna[m], it looks like you keep sending me webmentions on the post you made every now and then, just wanted to let you know that
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jamietanna[m] Swentel work is in progress to stop that, but may still be a week until I can finalise it, sorry
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swentel Luckily I match duplicates :)
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[manton] [chrisaldrich] Good luck with your talk tomorrow! There's no live-stream for WordCamp Riverside, right? Will try to catch the replay later.
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[manton] WordCamp Seattle is also this weekend and Jean MacDonald will be there (likely with Micro.blog stickers if anyone is in town for it). I haven't been to one in a couple years so looking forward to hearing how it goes.
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[snarfed] under discussion lightly in #indieweb-meta right now, from https://indiemap.org/docs.html#sites : "I also propose the modest criteria that a site is IndieWeb in a technical plumbing sense if it has either microformats2, a webmention endpoint, or a micropub endpoint."
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[snarfed] but more importantly, "Any personal web site is IndieWeb in spirit! And many organization and company web sites too. Especially if the owner uses it as some or all of their primary online identity."
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[jgmac1106] yeah snarfed we talked about that as being the spirit of the definition but the other being a definition we could operationalize in data research
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[arush] Hi all.
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[prtksxna] 👋
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[jgmac1106] good morning Amanda
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[chrisaldrich] Thanks @manton! I don't expect a live stream, but it should be recorded for later release.
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[chrisaldrich] 'Morning all!
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mozboz are there any examples of indieweb style versions of news aggregators (e.g. reddit/hn/lobste.rs) that facilitate e.g. voting or tagging being a distributed function? (therefore the votes and tags for a particular item would be subjective according to who you register votes/tags from)
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[tantek] I think IndieNews supports voting
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[tantek] for tagging, use /bookmark posts
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[tantek] for *distributed* tagging of other things that is
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aaronpk http://news.indieweb.org used to support likes/voting but i took it out because people could barely understand how to post things there at all 😂
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aaronpk https://indieweb.xyz/en supports multiple topics wheras indienews is supposed to be indieweb-related posts only
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[snarfed] we've been discussing in #indieweb-meta whether we should try to do our own search engine again
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aaronpk heh
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[snarfed] (prior art: https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/ , https://snarfed.org/2018-11-30_indieweb-google-custom-search-engine )
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[snarfed] (personally i think no, ROI would be horrible)
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mozboz aaronpk: ahh.. i just had a quick search through the indieweb codebase and i couldn't find any reference to vote or voting.. will i find the code if I go back far enough? interested to see how it worked
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[snarfed] (technorati was really great prior art though)
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swentel aaronpk, did you ping your hub for the new posts on your front page? (just checking whether I didn't do anything wrong again heh)
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aaronpk swentel: good question let mecheck
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[tantek] snarfed, depends on how you are measuring ROI.
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[tantek] hence why I asked about revenue model
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[tantek] I have some ideas, but way down the list after my own personal site itches/scratches
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[snarfed] yeah i'll happily rephrase ROI as priority
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[tantek] IMO the key ROI bar is enough to be self-sustaining with growth in usage
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[snarfed] right. revenue/financial sustainability was _not_ what i meant. more like priority for the community
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[tantek] instead of yet another admintax / SPOF
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GWG Hi, [chrisaldrich], [arush].
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[tantek] it doesn't need to be a priority "for the community" is my point. just cheap enough for one person to build / maintain sustainably
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[snarfed] sure. again, financial and personal effort sustainability, sure. but community priorities help us determine what we at least encourage people to think about
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[snarfed] unrelated, we've also been discussing how to get data driven statistics, ie top-line numbers, on size and activity of the indieweb community, in #indieweb-meta. https://indiemap.org/ is great but recrawling is way too big and expensive a hammer.
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Loqi Indie Map is a public IndieWeb social graph and dataset. 2300 sites, 5.7M pages, 380GB HTML with microformats2. Social graph API and interac...
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[snarfed] [jgmac1106] actually one thing you'd be great at is thinking of other lighter weight alternative methods for measuring top line numbers!
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[tantek] snarfed I'd chip in $50 towards a recrawl of indiemap for end of 2019 stats.. not knowing how much the total expense is.
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[snarfed] heh. expense is my time and effort. i'm happy to write off all personal financial costs
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[snarfed] (eg https://snarfed.org/2019-01-02_bridgy-stats-update-4#comment-2730711, and almost 2x that to opencollective, https://opencollective.com/indieweb#section-contributors )
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Loqi Ryan Barrett
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[snarfed] [jgmac1106] one example of alternative stats: it'd be pretty easy to just redo counting the number of domains in indiemap, without crawling at all, eg https://indiemap.org/docs.html#sites
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[snarfed] doing that every quarter would be great!
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aaronpk there must be some open source project someone has written where a bunch of people can volunteer their spare computer time to run a giant web crawl
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[snarfed] http://commoncrawl.org/ isn't far off
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[snarfed] again the key part here is measuring the indieweb comunity specifically, not crawling web in general
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[jgmac1106] I have been collecting that snarfed but going through chat-names and seeing first edit and last edit....the newsletter...that is probably anaccessible way to collect edits as well
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[jgmac1106] snarfed if you had a ballpark person hours and computing cost what would you guess. always happy to try for a small grant..much easier to get than big ones
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[snarfed] oh yeah no do collect domains systematically, not incrementally from change history. there are instructions in https://github.com/snarfed/indie-map/#crawl , feel free to try!
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[jgmac1106] thanks
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aaronpk [snarfed]: i thought the "hard" part was the crawl, and once you have the web pages then the parsing of them is easy
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[snarfed] redoing the domain collection should take less than an hour. cmd line fu needed but no coding
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[snarfed] ah aaronpk i was talking about use case and need
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[snarfed] our (jgmac's) use case right now is measuring our community, not deep crawling or parsing
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[snarfed] (background in #indieweb-meta)
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aaronpk is there a description of what that actually means? what determines size? what are the metrics?
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[tantek] one thing you can use there is, whatever definition/description you did in 2017
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[tantek] then you can re-assess, how can we make *better* metrics
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[tantek] rather than just being open ended philosophy
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[jgmac1106] here was our thinking (warning done when I knew even less than now) https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/25/scoping-out-basics-of-indieweb-search
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[jgmac1106] but the idea was to not crawl everything..only those sites that Opteds-in and only the content of those sites people wanted crawled....so you could kind of schedule the work
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[snarfed] yeah i was careful to be explicit about indiemap's methodology and which sites it included: https://indiemap.org/docs.html#sites
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[jgmac1106] Opt-in*
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swentel aaronpk, I think I might found my problem, subscribed to https://aaronparecki.com instead of https://aaronparecki.com/ (note trailing slash) that's quite important right?
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swentel *have found
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swentel looking at https://switchboard.p3k.io/subscription/7l8vUKQW6WCFhUeJ9p7XK7AEkD4HBn2U, the last ping was in 2016 - unless I misread the info of course, but it's that date that triggered this suspicion.
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aaronpk oh hmm
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aaronpk we should probably take this to #indieweb-dev
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Loqi yea
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swentel sure
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Announcing Homebrew Website Club San Diego" https://gregorlove.com/2019/11/announcing-homebrew-website-club-san-diego/
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jbove Have been reading about the creation of the Lynx text browser and came across this fantastic page for Lou Montulli: https://web.archive.org/web/20040309105337/http://www.cc.ukans.edu/cwis/people/Lou.Montulli.html
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joe-1 Was reading about Lynx, the text browser, and came across this fantastic picture of the team of creators at the university of Arkansa: https://web.archive.org/web/20040309105337/http://www.cc.ukans.edu/cwis/people/Lou.Montulli.html
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joe-1 I remember the days when PC monitors could easily carry the weight of a mature man
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joe-1 More great links and web browser history: https://lynx.invisible-island.net/lynx_help/about_lynx.html#lynx-dev_list
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[KevinMarks] Technorati was about crawling all blogs, and got itself wired into lots of blogging systems to get rapid updates. The tricky part was when blogs were spam vectors. Our cycle time was lower than most of the blog platforms, so we saw the spam before they did.
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[KevinMarks] Also for a lot of them (and indeed for us to some extent) growing user counts were a big metric for kudos and funding, so tolerating a spammy subset was OK
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[tantek] an early warning of metrics-driven growth to follow 😕