#indieweb 2019-12-14

2019-12-14 UTC
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plindner[m] Anyone else working on memorial sites? Sadly I have need, plus I would want to do a one-time PESOS to preserve things that I assume will get eventually deleted.
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plindner[m] I saw https://indieweb.org/obituary but it's not quite what I'm looking for
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[KevinMarks] Some of the tools to make things static may help, Paul
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mattgorecki What's the current consensus on the .org registry sale?
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[KevinMarks] Wariness at enclosure of the commons but extractive monopolists
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mattgorecki I guess the better question, is how do you avoid the fall out of the loss of a domain or even the entire TLD? Alternative root DNS is a thing, but not super practical.
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[tantek] the .org problem has definitely attracted a lot of attention at some high levels
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[randyl2004] Hello! I learned about indieweb from a Firefox tweet in response to Jack (Twitter CEO) starting up bluesky
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jacky oh, welcome [randyl2004]
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[randyl2004] I've looked over indieweb.org and read Jamie Tanna's blog post over The Indieweb Movement. Pretty interesting stuff.
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mattgorecki Taking Jack Dorsey with a grain of salt is a massive understatement.
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[randyl2004] Thank you!
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plindner[m] IMO Bluesky is not a serious endeavour.. 5 people is nothing compared to what Google invested in OpenSocial.
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plindner[m] As a marketing strategy it's working wonders though...
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[randyl2004] Is this all in the indieweb wiki? I find this topic fascinating.
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[randyl2004] I think it's just because its Twitter.
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[randyl2004] I've been tooling around with a similar idea with a former colleague but from a database perspective. I'm hoping maybe there's someone who's already taken on the same concepts.
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[randyl2004] Is it possible to accomplish Indieweb concepts without a framework? I've been tooling on this for awhile. Like I looked at random concepts like blockstack.org for awhile, and sometimes I wonder if these things are just a farce.
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gRegorLove what is building blocks?
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Loqi Building blocks are key design-patterns, technologies, and methods for building and improving your independent website https://indieweb.org/building-blocks
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[randyl2004] Is it possible to solve ownership of data for users at the database level?
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gRegorLove Yeah, plurality is one of the indieweb principles. It's not "everyone use x framework"
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gRegorLove More on https://indieweb.org/principles
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[tantek] [randyl2004] in short no
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[tantek] In general it is unlikely to be able to solve *anything* for *users* at the "database level"
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[tantek] (databases are neither user friendly, nor user sustainable/maintainable)
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[randyl2004] [tantek] understood. I've been trying to understand this for awhile. Do you think that's a function of the current offerings of databases today?
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[randyl2004] Like, if I go to some online retailer and I make a purchase of something, that purchase history gets saved in a database that's maintained by the author of that online retailer. I mean Amazon has massive data points on all it's users.
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[randyl2004] But like, if we had a database system that understood (or even could agree to store data) in a user specified location, wouldn't that be better? If a database system were engineered to guarantee users owned certain data points and agreed to allow for certain permissions between database users?
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KartikPrabhu "database" in this context sounds like an irrelevant "plumbing" strawman. All my data (that I want to make accessible) is accessible from my website using HTML+mf2. Whether I store it in a database is not relevant
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[randyl2004] Two follow on questions I guess, because I don't understand. What is "mf2", and does IndieWeb then not have an option on data that is collected; only about data that I've personally created?
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[randyl2004] Opinion* not option
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aaronpk what is mf2?
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Loqi microformats2 is the latest stable and interoperable version of microformats https://indieweb.org/mf2
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aaronpk I'd say give this a read as for the second question: https://indieweb.org/principles
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aaronpk but also IndieWeb is people, not anything that has opinions itself
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[randyl2004] Thank you. So if I am understanding microformats correctly, it's a way for me to ascribe to myself that I am the author of some peice of data, correct? And to the 2nd item: IndieWeb is simply a collection of principles about how one should go about building products and sites on the web. Are these fair statements?
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aaronpk that's one thing microformats can do. it's also how we can comment on each others' websites
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aaronpk for example: https://indieweb.org/reply#How_To
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aaronpk more about the indieweb here: https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb
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[randyl2004] I see. So mf2 really describes the data that I might author or datai might reference, all with the intent that I should own my own online presence with my own domain.
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aaronpk exactly
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[tantek] updated my Twitter profile (been meaning to for a while) and feel like I should have the equivalent on my site, yet nothing quite fits like that currently.
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[tantek] does anyone keep a bio on their site that is similar to or perhaps a superset of their Twitter bio?
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[randyl2004] This is probably a stupid follow on question, since literally the 1st line on the page is "people focused as opposed to corporate focused web" .. could any online commerce website follow IndieWeb principles? It's hard to imagine selling things online without violating the "own your data" principle.
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aaronpk interesting. my site has a much longer bio section on top compared to my twitter profile. now i'm wondering if i should have a short version like twitter on my website also or instead of
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[tantek] [randyl2004] consider it as two people interacting, not "a commerce website" and then you'll have your answer
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[tantek] what is bio
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Loqi A bio is a commonly occurring page or homepage section that provides a summary description about a person https://indieweb.org/bio
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[tantek] aaronpk, also, is the act of updating your bio worth a post?
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[tantek] I feel like I've seen something like that somewhere
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aaronpk hm, i think i usually want to specifically avoid drawing attention to the updates
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[tantek] though sometimes you want to
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aaronpk like when i update my bio on linkedin i always uncheck the "tell my network about this change" box
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[randyl2004] [tantek] 🤔 ty.
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[tantek] aaronpk, now I'm considering POSSEing my bio updates to LinkedIn just to annoy LinkedIn "feeds" 😈
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aaronpk lol
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[tantek] I think I found an actual legitimate use for camelCase: hashtags (for better screenreaderbility, so they know the intended word boundaries)
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KartikPrabhu [tantek]: https://kartikprabhu.com/about#me for bio
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Loqi Kartik Prabhu
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KartikPrabhu I guess I should add that to examples
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[tantek] Yes!
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[jgmac1106] my Twitter bio is a superset of my website bio...I want that to look more like my site
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[jgmac1106] from [Sadik_Shahadu] https://twitter.com/Sadike25/status/1205370810401251329 you put that up on your website as well Sadik so we can syndicate it to IndieNews
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@Sadike25 Watch our @MozOpenLeaders mentorship training video to learn more on how to participate or get involved. https://vimeo.com/379053624 @xolotl @jgmac1106 @masssly @ZuZage @mwintirew @GOIFoundation @Bali_Maha @GereonKalkuhl @friedelitis @frimelle #OER. (twitter.com/_/status/1205370810401251329)
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[Sadik_Shahadu] Ok.
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[jgmac1106] we may have to whitelist vimeo if you use an iframe but that is more a dev question
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[davidmead] tantek jgmac1106 I try and keep the same 2-3 line bio on everything, including my site.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://fireburn.ru/posts/1576360980
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gRegorLove What are people's thoughts on "sign in" vs "log in", e.g. "enter your email address to sign in" vs "enter your email address to log in"
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gRegorLove indielogin uses "sign in" and I think I've seen it on some other indie services
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gRegorLove Found https://blog.benjamincharity.com/log-in-vs-login-vs-sign-in/
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jacky ooh nice
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jacky I've been curious about this too
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jacky lwa uses https://lwa.black.af/sessions/new and I think I use it on my personal site too
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jacky wow there's a lot of discourse on this
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jacky very nice
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gRegorLove It's 2010 and in informal survey, but more "sign in" https://www.leemunroe.com/login-vs-signin/
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gRegorLove *an informal
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gRegorLove I still like "log in" but can't tell if that's mostly just my inertia of using that with work projects for years.
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gRegorLove jacky, "something went wrong" with that link
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gRegorLove says to check the logs
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Publ v0.5.11, Authl v0.3.5" http://publ.beesbuzz.biz/blog/155-Publ-v0-5-11-Authl-v0-3-5
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "New image upload/optimization for sweetroll2" https://unrelenting.technology/notes/2019-12-14-23-29-02
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