#indieweb 2020-01-31

2020-01-31 UTC
TorpedoSkyline, sp1ff1, sivy, [jgmac1106], eli_oat, dev, wolftune, whjms, KempfCreative, kensp, gRegorLove, [LewisCowles] and mgh joined the channel
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GWG Morning all
wolftune, [dmitshur], plutes, [Michael_Beckwit, bengrue and BlackWhite joined the channel
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BlackWhite BINANCE COMPETITION - Win and share it. https://binance.com.en.competition.oneviewsolutions.com/5000-giveaway/accounts/payment/ I've got 7 BTC
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BlackWhite BINANCE COMPETITION - Win and share it. https://binance.com.en.competition.oneviewsolutions.com/5000-giveaway/accounts/payment/ I've got 7 BTC
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BlackWhite BINANCE COMPETITION - Win and share it. https://binance.com.en.competition.oneviewsolutions.com/5000-giveaway/accounts/payment/ I've got 7 BTC
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[Marlin_Forbes] and so it begins...
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[Marlin_Forbes] i'm guessing a flood of those is gonna come soon.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Manual Backfeed in the Blogosphere" https://boffosocko.com/2020/01/30/manual-backfeed-in-the-blogosphere/
swentel, KartikPrabhu, Loqi, likus, krychu, cweiske, [dmitshur], wiedi, [Marlin_Forbes], v_, plutes, gxt, [tantek], sp1ff1, jgmac1106 and JOX joined the channel
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JOX Shift in perspective on web browsers, from Alan Kay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTNgtvDVXCE
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JOX He believes that what is now the web should have taken on a form more like HyperCard.
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[KevinMarks] well, he can blame Jobs for that, he cancelled the QuickTime/HyperCard fusion that would have made that happen
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JOX Ok, but if you put a coin into Tim Cook, he says, "the latest iPhone." That's all.
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JOX Kay often talks about how the history of computers is ignored before people proceed with new products, that people like Douglas Engelbart have not been acknowledged enough.
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JOX But I think also the researchers at PARC were successful on the research part before they had a chance to participate on the product side.
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JOX That the needs of businesses need to be addressed after the research is completed at PARC.
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JOX The researchers did their work successfully at PARC, but the transition to actual everyday use required modifications. HyperCard probably would not cut it for the web without major modifications, in my view.
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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JOX The strength of HTML compared to some initial HyperCard setup is that you can publish large amounts of data easily, especially through simple scripts. But with HyperCard, it would have been hard.
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JOX The downside is that currently anything RIA (Rich Internet Application) requires hacky JS setups and this is what Kay probably is complaining about.
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JOX If we're talking about indie web, as in independent of corporations, we have to talk about how today's HTML relies on authoring tools made by Adobe to make interactive content.
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JOX If you want to animate something professionally for a web page, you basically have to buy an Adobe product. That is far from indie.
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[jgmac1106] I make professional stuff all the time and don't touch adobe, even most of my video editing I don't need premier
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[jgmac1106] interactive content takes people and community more than software, imo
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JOX To a certain extent it is like saying that a person can do special effects with Blender, when in reality no effects house is going to do that.
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[jgmac1106] or you start with the question do I need the special effect? Not sure I want to recreate the flash video era of pre roll on every website
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JOX We kind of have that right now with all of the "this is your last free article" stuff
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[jgmac1106] I think with HTML, CSS Grid, maybe a dash of JS you can do really interactive stuff, but I don't get paid to make websites, if that is the case you do what the clients wants not what is right
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[jgmac1106] jox what is your site?
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[jgmac1106] Who is JOX?
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] agreed with post /create UI starting with default private (auto-saved draft). I would go one more step and say *local* only as well, or at a minimum, encrypted on server and post there only for the sake of syncing among your personal local devices.
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[jgmac1106] seeing a lot of hacks with people drafting in the note apps of their phones, for my main domain I type in a text editor so have a local copy, Known autosaves post but not sure if it does offline, probably not
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[jgmac1106] Jox, sorry for the decontextualized question, it is a trigger phrase for the bot to look up people listed in our directory.
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[jgmac1106] Who is tantek?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/User:Tantek.com
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[tantek] 30 DAYS!!!
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[tantek] https://tantek.com/2020/030/t1/run-landwehrkanal-adventure
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] 🏙☁️🏃🏻‍♂️ Out & back 3.5 mile run along the #Landwehrkanal to the Dovebrücke(1) just before dark, after being cooped up indoors all day @Mozilla #Brrrlin All Hands. I ran past where I had gone on Monday (https://tantek.com/t54o1) ... https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/width960/476_p5e8JTGJuqbnEgl-3kJCEGZusL9ypzHeIt_4c9w3OjQ.jpg
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[tantek] context: https://indieweb.org/100_days#2020
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[jgmac1106] congrats!! me too, well two days were after mindnight but I will count as it was before I woke up in the morning
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[tantek] yes that totally counts 😄
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[jgmac1106] https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2020/01/27/my-100daysquotesofcolor-challenge-literacies
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[jgmac1106] I may move from Known to notes on my domain so I can include the image. I can't use the photo post because of the title also being the alt and the text that is POSSEd
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[jgmac1106] right now the images are only on manual POSSE to LinkedIN
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[jgmac1106] that pic is beautiful
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[jgmac1106] do you think your photo taking skills are improving as well?
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[jgmac1106] https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/original/476_liJjfn-S2wUshLdyBx0FztJ-ySxtgjyB0e39kIGQc7M.jpg will be used in a sci-fi writing challenge this semester
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[jgmac1106] I hope folks join us for https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2020/01/31/pull-into-the-poetry-port-a-clmooc-poetry-challenge-for don't have to do the improv poems, don't even hav to write one, feel free to ask for a poem any day of the month when you need a pick me up
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Pull into the Poetry Port: A #clmooc poetry challenge for the Month of February #IndieWeb
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[tantek] Thanks [jgmac1106]. I think the practice is improving my photography. Maybe even more important than the act of taking the photo (framing the shot etc.), the commitment to continuously present observation means I notice more things when running, and ask more questions (internal monologue)
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[AlisonW] [jgmac1106] you may not use Adobe products but it can probably be argued that they created the initial tools and other (current) products exist because of that.
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[KevinMarks] JOX - the HyperCard QuickTime combination fixed that, as it included QuickTime's very well designed edit by reference model and data handlers, so you could make stacks that loaded data from elsewhere (and audio video and images were handled too)
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[tantek] HyperCard was rapidly evolving at the time it was canceled. With the QT3 stuff, there was a decent chance of migration to a portable (open) data format as well
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[KevinMarks] Yes, it was being moved into the Movie format which is open and documented.
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[KevinMarks] The QTOS stuff took it further - they already had multiple binary bundles for Components, but they defined a Bytecode format that was a subset of 68000, which they could already compile to, and had working emulators on other CPUs
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[KevinMarks] That was for the Pippin console, but also other small form factors
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[jgmac1106] I don't have issue with using ADOBE stuff at all, well the new licensing and monthly makes it a PITA to use with students now
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[jgmac1106] you can't just buy licenses and ghost to labs
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[jgmac1106] I just think that the world of web development doesn't need to be as complicated as we make it out to be, but like I said I am not a dev. Complicated web apps need front end engineers do front end engineers need complicated apps? I dunno, not my field
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[AlisonW] Oh, god q. Personally I hate frameworks. They're often big and nearly always overkill. KISS principles please, every time.
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[jgmac1106] You can still by HyperStudio, first eportfoilio system I designed used that
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[AlisonW] Sp/god/good!
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[jgmac1106] No I think KISS is the answer to most of God's questions
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[AlisonW] 👍
KempfCreative, [Michael_Beckwit, TorpedoSkyline, [snarfed], confraria, [Chrispian_Burks and [Evan_Hildreth] joined the channel
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[Evan_Hildreth] Good morning! Excited about diving into all this!
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Elm City Webmakers Meet to Build Digital Literacies" https://literacyeveryday.org/elm-city-webmakers-meet-to-build-digital-literacies/
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jeremycherfas Welcome [Evan_Hildreth] What brought you here?
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fredcy_ <JOX "Shift in perspective on web brow"> Does anyone have a link to the full video presentation that that clip comes from?
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fredcy_ I recall HyperCard showing up in the '80s and looking like a winner. I was surprised when it just faded away.
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fredcy_ I wonder if JS+WebGL could provide enough to be the browser OS that Kay seems to like.
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[Evan_Hildreth] Heard about this through Micro.blog, [Michael_Beckwith] renewed my interest, the slow decline of _birdsite_ reminds me to own my own data, and my employer gives me 1 day per month to work on OSS projects. 🙂
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[jgmac1106] grrrrr......inoreader now moved the ability to display an rss feed up to their third pricing tier....how can I build a planet now from rss? any ideas
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jamietanna[m] Evan_Hildreth: That's great to hear! Do you have anything in that policy about ownership? I.e. have you confirmed that anything OSS you work on is still your Intellectual Property?
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[Michael_Beckwit jamie that’s actually a legit good question, but my hunches are that Evan’s and my bosses would have zero issue over making sure we had ownership of stuff
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[Michael_Beckwit although the core idea of the contributor day we’re both participating in is more about contributing somehow to the WordPress community
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[Michael_Beckwit self plugins/code is allowed
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[Michael_Beckwit but i’m not sure we have anything official about ownership in any policy writeups
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[chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106] maybe you could self host with pressforward plugin or feedpress (I think that's the name)
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[snarfed] i definitely recommend checking your companies' invention assignment policies. usually it's fine, what you do on your own time/equipment defaults to your ownership, but on the company's, check explicitly
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[snarfed] (and if your company owns it, that can still be ok! you can still often license it liberally or even as public domain)
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[chrisaldrich] TrustButVerify++
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Loqi TrustButVerify has 1 karma over the last year
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[snarfed] some big co's, famously google, did so many different things that they imposed a default policy that they actually owned all employees' work by default, regardless of when or how it was done, and you had to apply for exceptions
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[snarfed] (debatable whether it would hold up in court in california specifically, but ianal)
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[Michael_Beckwit jamietanna[m] since you asked, i went and checked, and for code written on these contributor days, for our own plugins/sites/etc are owned by ourselves, not employer
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[chrisaldrich] Do we have a stub page for that snarfed? Seen it come up several times now.
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[snarfed] 🤷
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[snarfed] only really matters in unusual cases, eg google employees or on-the-job work like michael's
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jamietanna[m] Glad to hear that for both [Michael_Beckwit and [Evan_Hildreth]!
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[jgmac1106] chrisaldrich yeah I remember cogdog having a lot of tutorials, our webring is wordpress plug in, so we already have the site
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jamietanna[m] Yeah keeping off company time, equipment, and IP (ie using internal tooling or code snippets) is one of the key ways to avoid it
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[chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106] if it's not too big and you have an OPML file, I can dump it into my account
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[KevinMarks] HyperCard didn't fade away, it was actively killed off by Jobs (and Schiller) http://epeus.blogspot.com/2010/06/steve-jobs-and-curates-egg.html
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[KevinMarks] I have a clause I add to consulting agreements to explicitly exempt open source and standards work from inventions and patents policy
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sivy ah, hypercard, literally the reason for my 20-year programming career
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[KevinMarks] hypercard++
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Loqi hypercard has 1 karma over the last year
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[jgmac1106] thx for offer [chrisaldrich] but being student data I will hold onto it even though they are public feeds
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[jgmac1106] chrisaldrich ended up using the feedzy plugin: https://clmoocring.jgregorymcverry.com/edu506/?preview_id=73&preview_nonce=ec87f8d133&_thumbnail_id=-1&preview=true
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vika_nezrimaya https://fireburn.ru/posts/1580501271
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Loqi [Vika] alias mf2json='python3 -c '\''import mf2py, sys, json; print(json.dumps(mf2py.parse(url=sys.argv[])))'\''' #IndieWeb #bash #climagic
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vika_nezrimaya you'll obviously need mf2py in python path
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vika_nezrimaya irreplaceable for quick debugging and processing your posts with shell scripts!
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