#indieweb 2020-05-11

2020-05-11 UTC
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Meetable: Updates for Virtual Events" https://aaronparecki.com/2020/05/10/28/meetable
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aaronpk figured that was worth a blog post
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jacky :)
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[tantek] aaronpk++ nice!
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Loqi aaronpk has 33 karma in this channel over the last year (210 in all channels)
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[tantek] is there a simple clock icon like 🕐 for postponed?
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aaronpk I used that for the date section so it seemed redundant
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[tantek] er, you don't want to overload it, makes sense
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[tantek] Swarm has a badge with a watch and a ? that could work
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jamietanna Aaronpk++ for that, really liking the auto scheduling and the hiding of meeting info until 15 mins
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Loqi Aaronpk has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (211 in all channels)
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jamietanna Would I be able to log into events.indieweb.org ahead of the event and see the ie Zoom url for someone else's meetup?
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
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[LewisCowles] Good morning jeremycherfas
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jeremycherfas Good morning [LewisCowles] How's the bread going?
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[LewisCowles] It's not. Flour out 😞
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jeremycherfas Oh no.
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[LewisCowles] Many people are bread making / buying, even part-cooked rolls are selling out the day they hit the shelves. It'll normalize in a month or so
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[LewisCowles] that clusterHAT hardware for the Pi... Ughhh
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jeremycherfas My mother told me that a restaurant near her, which is closed for business, is repackaging it's 25 kg bags of clour into 1 kg bags for sale to locals.
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amiiboh not a bad idea
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amiiboh since people are having such a hard time finding it
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jeremycherfas And if they split the difference between their per kg price and the store's price, everybody wins a little.
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amiiboh I actually made flatbread for the first time because of all this
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amiiboh unfortunately my kitchen is not set up properly for anything at all, I expected to be living in this place much more temporarily, lol
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jeremycherfas Well done. I've done flatbreads on the stove top before now.
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[KevinMarks] Is it time to add keybase to /site_deaths?
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[KevinMarks] 🔜 For postponed?
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amiiboh ah, I see medium has become the inscrutable paywalled/login-walled garbage I always suspected it would
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amiiboh if it takes me 2 minutes to figure out how to view your articles, no thanks I guess
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[KevinMarks] Or 🐊 for later, gator?
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aaronpk Jamietanna: right now the link is completely hidden until the event even when logged in. You can log in to the zoom app and see it there tho
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[tantek] amiiboh, can you share screenshots of what you’re seeing?
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[tantek] We’ve documented some on /Medium but if it’s gotten worse it would be great to record it
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jmac Following up on my Friday utterances: I have indeed begun a fun and slow public conversation with a friend where I am hand-typing reply-notes on jmac.org and then running a script that sends him the webmentions, too impatient to install (let alone build) any tools that make this process saner. My friend's responses are much better tooled.
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jmac https://randomgeekery.org/note/2020/05/clearing-the-tracks-as-we-go-is-part-of-the-fun/
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jmac I am still hellbent on building my IndieWeb dream machine, but have in the meantime resolved to not let that stop me from actually, you know, writing
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amiiboh [tantek] next time I experience it, I will capture a bunch.
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amiiboh I think it's become worse than whatever the NYTimes spits out at you if you're not logged in
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amiiboh Looking for general thoughts on how to cobble toegether a podcast site from indieweb parts - Wordpress was the best option last time I thought about this, does anything else stand out?
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amiiboh Podcast already exists, am dumping Squarespace for work stuff now that I've moved my personal stuff off of it...
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amiiboh together* yikes fingers do your job
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jeremycherfas Micro.blog has a podcasting tier; not sure how it is as I don't use it.
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[KevinMarks] WordPress has the most tooling, but plugins config. Known has basic podcast support.
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[KevinMarks] Another option would be a static site generator if you're posting infrequently
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amiiboh Probably infrequently enough that it would be fine. What are the well supported ones to look at?
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amiiboh I'll go the static site route if possible and if I don't like how it feels trying it out then I'll go Wordpress, I'm comfortable enough with it
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[KevinMarks] That depends on the tool chain you like. I like Hugo, but the templating draws you into Go a bit (micro.blog is using it too). We have other ssg users here
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[KevinMarks] What is ssg?
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Loqi Static site generators are programs that take a set of flat text files on disk and transforms them into a set of static html files ready to be served by a standard web server, or some variation of this example https://indieweb.org/SSG
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[KevinMarks] Jekyll, Hugo and eleventy are all fairly popular here
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[tantek] wow that's great. "how to transition from Squarespace" would also be a great thing to write-up, even brief notes / steps would be useful to many folks who start there but want something more
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[tantek] what is squarespace
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Loqi Squarespace is a content hosting service (paid) that provides services such as blogging and domain hosting https://indieweb.org/Squarespace
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amiiboh I'll jot down some notes as I go. For my personal site there wasn't so much stuff that I needed to export, and Ghost handled copy/pasting formatted text very well
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amiiboh For my business a lot of stuff is changing anyway so I might copy-paste bits piecemeal more so than migrate what's there over
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amiiboh to me, it's a textbook case study for why you'd bother hosting your own site. I really enjoyed using it for years, and then watched as its interface changed piece by piece from something I could use in my sleep to something that made me want to delete my computer
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amiiboh Now I absolutely hate every minute I have to spend fiddling with it
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[jgmac1106] WP with the really simple podcasting plugin works. If I do IndieWeb WP I do often wrap the theme in a page builder so I can get some of the page design flexibility you get with squarespace or wix
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[jgmac1106] nothing on the page builder, looks like I kept it Vanilla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB5M1ITg5f0&list=PLcOe6hT98JCUo8kWlGhz0C4cdPyaD2LSZ I am sure been some changes in two years. Will update series this summer
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[jgmac1106] but micro.blog if you want to pay ($5/$10 w podcast) and not touch anything ever again is amazing....getting sick of fiddling with things can be a WP fact of life too
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amiiboh That's what drove me to squarespace, but I've changed a lot since then and I'm much more content to leave things alone once I have them mostly how I want them, heh
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amiiboh I'm not a developer but I have been tinkering with things like this for probably 20 years now, just enough to ensure that if I do break something it's not catastrophically
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amiiboh I did want to use known for something unrelated but I'm not quite clever enough to get it working for some reason
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Loqi amiiboh has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] amiiboh++ really appreciate all these observations and sharing your personal experience with these services and tools
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amiiboh Thanks, I am a long time fidgeter so it's nice to be around other folks who are like that
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[tantek] you're definitely among fidgeters and tinkerers here! 🙂
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amiiboh For a laugh: when I was in art school everyone thought I was a CS major because I had a stick of RAM from my first computer on my keychain
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amiiboh which was because I thought it was neat, but I think it made people think I was a little more clever than I was :)
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[tantek] sooo... the screenshot a tweet thing is well-intentioned but wrong
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amiiboh what thing, the general practice of it or is there some shiny new thing I have avoided hearing about?
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[tantek] context: https://web.archive.org/web/20200511190615/https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1234242828328407041.html
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[tantek] anil is correct, *except* for "In practice, this means you should use captioned screenshots." which is wrong because
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[tantek] Twitter screenshots are trivially fakeable
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[tantek] I belive jacky wrote a canonical post / demonstration of this
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[tantek] *believe jacky
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aaronpk plus it's still sharing the message from the person you're calling out or whatever your intent is, so they still win
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[tantek] (that too)
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[tantek] That's a subtler reason (higher level strategic thinking) but that's not the point I'm making (you're not wrong aaronpk)
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[tantek] The answer, instead of "captioned screenshots", used to be (til a few months ago), Internet Archive save the tweet then use that archive link instead (also tweet deletion-resistant)
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[tantek] The answer today is, exactly what I did above
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[tantek] Use threaderreaderapp to make a copy of the tweet, then send the threaderreaderapp permalink to Internet Archive, then use *that* link
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[chrisaldrich] What is Twitter laundering?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Twitter laundering" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Twitter laundering is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] chrisaldrich, bad framing
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[tantek] makes it sound bad, when you're actually tamper proofing a bunch of stuff
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[tantek] Now, what would be really neat is a tool (or service) that took a tweet and returned the Internet Archived link to the ThreadReaderApp version of it
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[chrisaldrich] I tee'd it up for just that. Your exampke for Anil certainly wouldn't apply.
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[fluffy] captioned screenshots also suck for accessibility
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[chrisaldrich] The other question is how to do that archive for back up and potential future use, but still provide the positive form of activity to help improve the reach of the positive messages?
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[tantek] fluffy++ yes
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Loqi fluffy has 10 karma in this channel over the last year (66 in all channels)
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[fluffy] The best way to share a tweet on your own webpage is by using Twitter’s native embed widget thing. It actually copies the tweet text (so it won’t disappear when the garbage take is deleted), and it just uses Twitter-run JS to reformat the div. I don’t know what impact that has on “engagement” metrics though.
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[tantek] chrisaldrich the answer to that is, archive/backup *immediately*, then only post criticism long after the fact, thus not contributing to any "momentum" of the negative behavior
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[tantek] I'd suspect any use of direct Twitter embed widget would contribute to metrics of that tweet. So I'd recommend against it for the same reasons that Anil gives.
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[tantek] If anything, use of the Twitter embed also lowers the UI barrier to others amplifying the negative tweet, so don't do that
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[chrisaldrich] I'm sure the embed widget definitely contributes.
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[tantek] whereas amplifying Internet Archive is a good thing 🙂
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[fluffy] You could also use the twitter embed widget but remove the JS invocation.
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[tantek] Better than laundering, I think a good analogy is containment, e.g. containing toxic waste
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aaronpk you can go to analytics.twitter.com to see the kinds of "engagement" they track on tweets
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[tantek] fluffy, nah, you're still linking directly to the tweet, once again enabling metrics and others to amplify it
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[fluffy] How do you avoid linking to it while keeping it reliably provable though?
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[tantek] aaronpk, that's tip of the iceberg
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[fluffy] like, that they actually said the thing
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[chrisaldrich] I'm reminded of a conversation I had about 20 years ago with the CEO of a fax spam service. He said they only needed a 2% response rate on their spam faxes to put them into wild profit. Twitter seems to have taken that model and amplified it.
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[tantek] fluffy, see above. internet archive of the threadereaderapp of the tweet
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aaronpk 😂
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[fluffy] Ah, I missed that. Yeah, makes sense.
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[fluffy] I have Issues with threadreader but they’re lesser issues than with the everything else.
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[tantek] that was the whole point! and why I linked to the internet archive of the threaderapp of anil's tweet to start with to prove my point with a real example lol
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[fluffy] I am incredibly dense 🙂
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[tantek] nah, it's a rough draft of a blog post that IDK if I'll get around to publishing as a proper narrative 🙂
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[fluffy] Post it as a twitter thread then link to the archive of the thread unroll 🙂
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[tantek] I need to find a citation for jacky's clever demo of how easily screenshots of tweets are fakeable
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jacky looks
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jacky also needs to add search to his site
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[tantek] 😂
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[chrisaldrich] So, much the same way that rel="me" can be used for personal verification, one could use u-syndication and rel="canonical" to verify the validity of a message.
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[tantek] yeah, interesting use-case for *always* including permashortlinks in your POSSE copies! if it's missing because someone tampered your tweet, then you know it's been tampered. otherwise you can look it up to verify the twet!
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[tantek] in particular yet another reason for "typability" of your permashortlinks (keeping them short and readable for retyping), when they show up in screenshots!
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amiiboh [chrisaldrich] wow! only a 2% response rate to put them into WiLd PrOfiT!11
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amiiboh good to know pants-on-head-on-fire stupidity in tech co business models is not a modern invention
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amiiboh Wait, that would have been 2000ish... crap, 2000 is 20 years ago now =_=
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[fluffy] hmm, my POSSE permalinks always show the card preview rather than the URL itself. I wonder how to override that behavior.
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[snarfed] [fluffy] https://indieweb.org/permashortcitation
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[fluffy] I can’t brain any of that right now.
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[fluffy] and I don’t think ifttt would provide any way of doing it and I don’t want to spend any more time setting up POSSE plumbing
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[fluffy] maybe if I put a content excerpt after the URL that’ll help
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jacky some of those links on that page breaks (mostly on Twitter)
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[tantek] fluffy, to "override" card preview behavior, metacrap--
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Loqi metacrap has -1 karma over the last year
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amiiboh RIP metacrap
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amiiboh metacrap's in the karma doghouse now
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[tantek] KarthikPrabhu, another marginalia use-case? marginalia photo/drawing comments? https://twitter.com/justinboldaji/status/1259090425689735169 (also thread, my goodness)
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@justinboldaji I became radicalized when I was in 4th grade & I took a science test & studied hard for it & ended up completely acing it but when I was done with the test I was bored & drew monsters in the margins of the paper & my teacher gave me a 90 out of 100 because of the monsters (twitter.com/_/status/1259090425689735169)
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[tantek] (Use-case for the artist, not the creativity-squashing grader)
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[KevinMarks] https://bix.blog/2020/05/10/has-anyone-gotten.html
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[KevinMarks] So, can we lobby this board to mandate interoperability? https://www.protocol.com/facebook-oversight-board-rules-of-the-internet
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