#indieweb 2020-05-10

2020-05-10 UTC
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[tantek] the reason they're interestingly related in the context of your issue is, when someone replies to one of your tweets in the POSSEstorm of the entire article, how do you know if it's a marginalia comment on that specific paragraph/sentence vs a comment on the article?
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[tantek] presumably Bridgy would have to be able to tell the difference in order to construct the synthetic in-reply-to URL (with or without fragment(ion) to that specific paragraph/sentence)
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[snarfed] right, that's a more involved version of what i'm considering
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[snarfed] and bridgy already handles it for replies, since all replies go to the original post
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[snarfed] i'm mostly thinking about likes and retweets here. and the simplest first step is to just backfeed them to the post itself
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[snarfed] marginalia sounds great, but definitely more work, and i suspect both interest and support are very low. only two examples on the wiki, and one of the two is inactive since 2014
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[tantek] I suppose if Bridgy already has a policy decision for replies like that, then it makes sense to extend it for likes and reposts. I'm wondering if there's a way to leave it at least open to handling marginalia responses
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[snarfed] user-visible setting, i guess
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[tantek] or something in the markup?
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[snarfed] in which markup, where?
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[tantek] really prefer to avoid adding setting/configurations, more maintenance for both sides
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[tantek] in the original article markup
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[snarfed] maybe
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[tantek] like he specific paragraphs / sentences would have to explicitly opt-in to getting special marginalia responses
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[snarfed] i'd need to see more evidence of actual interest though
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[tantek] *the specific
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[tantek] sure, to implement. I'm brainstorming from a perspective of leaving the option open, rather than actually implementing immediately
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[snarfed] sure!
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[tantek] the other possible signal is in the permashortlink in the POSSE tweet
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[snarfed] ideally i'd rather not require PSL
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[tantek] (if any)
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[snarfed] right now i'm trying to determine if backfeeding all likes and RTs is any more surprising than backfeeding all replies
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[snarfed] not sure
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[tantek] if a POSSE tweet of only a specific paragraph/sentence had a permashortlink with a fragment(ion) then it should be a signal to treat any responses as marginalia to that fragment(ion)
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[tantek] well this is fairly dev-like conversation and I'm surprised we haven't triggered Loqi yet
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[snarfed] hah yeah. still all user-facing UX, but still detailed and jargon-y
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[tantek] agree re: not requiring PSL for the default/common case you're describing, hence why I think that requiring a special PSL may be a good way to do marginalia backfeeding
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[tantek] to explicitly opt into
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[snarfed] sure
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[snarfed] i expect it will be per person more than per post though. ie if someone wants it and their site supports it, they'll want it for all posts, not just some
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[snarfed] ideally someone who actually wants this would weigh in, eg KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu no one seems to want to post marginalia comments afaik, so <shrug>
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KartikPrabhu it is still supported on my website
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[snarfed] you did get some on the marginalia post itself
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KartikPrabhu yeah but none after that
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KartikPrabhu specially not from twitter
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[snarfed] well yeah you wouldn't, bridgy doesn't support it 😁
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KartikPrabhu sure. I am saying I haven't seen any demand for it.
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[snarfed] agreed
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[snarfed] hmm just fyi looks like your site 400s marginalia webmentions with a single #, but that's been the preferred fragmention syntax for a while now
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[snarfed] i doubt that's why you're not getting any, but just a heads up
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KartikPrabhu I think silos like Medium have somehow trained people that it can be done on Medium, and so people do it. I don't think anyone is inclined to post such marginalia through twitter
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KartikPrabhu oh! I thought I fixed that when the syntax changed
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KartikPrabhu do you have an example?
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[snarfed] huh i actually get the same 400 for double #, so it may just be broken in general?
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[snarfed] example: https://snarfed.org/2020-05-09_marginalia-parallel-transport-4
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] likes Marginalia | Parallel Transport
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[snarfed] or do you only support replies, not likes?
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KartikPrabhu yeah I only do replies as marginalia. But your like should have gone through anyway and showed under the post. I'll look into it
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KartikPrabhu thanks
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[snarfed] a separate non-marginalia like did earlier, just fyi, w/a different permalink
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KartikPrabhu cool thanks for testing :)
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KartikPrabhu [snarfed]: I have atleast 4 from you on that article in my database. I'll check around
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[snarfed] eh not important
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KartikPrabhu well it is a excuse for me to tinker with my website again :P
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[tantek] KartikPrabhu, presumably if you POSSEd individual sentences or paragraphs, then people could respond to them without even knowing they were trying to "make" marginalia
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KartikPrabhu haha maybe.
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[tantek] this is why I phrased the "related problems" the way I did in: https://chat.indieweb.org/2020-05-09/1589067889133300
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Loqi [[tantek]] snarfed, interesting question. I feel there is overlap with a couple of related questions / use-cases. 1. having tweet buttons next to paragraphs or specific sentences allowing the reader to post just that bit of text and a link to the article, 2. ma...
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KartikPrabhu but I already don't like POSSEing bits of long form posts
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[tantek] ah, nevermind then
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KartikPrabhu twitter is not a good place to read any kind of long form IMO
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KartikPrabhu specially long twitter threads are very annoying
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[tantek] the use-case I'm thinking of is POSSEing specific points from long form posts
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KartikPrabhu yes. like excerpts or something might make sense
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[tantek] not necessarily POSSEing the whole thing in chunks
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[tantek] and then getting marginalia responses on those
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KartikPrabhu [snarfed]: I think all of your webmentions went through! The likes show up in the bottom since I don't display likes inline. The one reply you sent does show up as marignalia
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[chrisaldrich] It's a theoretical use case at the moment, but I know that @ThreadReaderApp is actively working on a set up for PESOS from Twitter to personal websites to be released soon. I'm curious what effect, if any, that may have on Brid.gy backfeed and demand for Bridgy use in general? https://twitter.com/threadreaderapp/status/1236067246700498950
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@threadreaderapp We have been receiving requests to allow embedding of unrolled threads automatically to blogs and other publications, including @ChrisAldrich's proposal below. Curious, how many folks are interested in this? And if so, what blogging platforms (eg Wordpress?) should be supported? https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/1236046889054654465 (twitter.com/_/status/1236067246700498950)
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[chrisaldrich] I suspect that the release of that feature will also be an interesting day to promote the idea of IndieWeb in general if anyone wants to brainstorm helping to promote it in an IndieWeb sort of way.
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[tantek] Whoa that's very cool. Any idea how imminent that is?
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[chrisaldrich] They've been working on it for a bit (since that tweet at least). Cal was in the #indieweb-wordpress channel on Friday inquiring about IndieAuth pieces to try to finish it up.
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[chrisaldrich] aaronpk++ for providing technical help and advice to help make it happen.
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Loqi aaronpk has 32 karma in this channel over the last year (207 in all channels)
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[KevinMarks] If it's just a pull quote, then it's like a highlight I suppose - both kindle and medium do this already
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove++ Lest you think we forgot: Happy 7th IWC Wiki anniversary (Created on May 9, 2013 at 11:56) and for 6,500+ wiki edits and counting!
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Loqi gRegorLove has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (84 in all channels)
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fkrt2 Why is it that http://microformats.org/ does not have SSL/TSL certificates? Anyone here from that site?
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aaronpk -> #microformats
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Zegnat fkrt2: there is some overlap between indieweb and microformats.org, but probably easier to get an answer in the #microformats channel, as aaronpk pointed at :)
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fkrt2 OK, thanks.
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fkrt2 I was just curious because there's not excuses now a days. Maybe I'll jump in later and ask in their channel
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[Katherine] [chrisaldrich] ahhh just seeing this now!! thank you so much. maybe i will just go ahead and use word press
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[chrisaldrich] [Katherine] Your note has sparked a lot of conversation in the various IndieWeb channels this week. Several people have been brainstorming how to do this in various methods.
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[chrisaldrich] Some used your name explicitly while others didn't so searching your name, "texting", "friends", "family", and/or "group" may undercover it all.
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[chrisaldrich] I think most was either in this channel and/or in the #indieweb-dev channel.
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[chrisaldrich] I know that there was one reply from kevinmarks who pointed out that Quill also supports posting via email as well, though the functionality may be a bit hidden.
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jamietanna [Katherine] it may also be possible to create an SMS-Micropub bridge
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[Katherine] thats exciting to hear it sparked discussion! i am VERY much a newbie to web stuff
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[Katherine] i don’t even know javascript!! so its very easy to feel overwhelmed
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[chrisaldrich] I know [jgmac1106] and [grantcodes] were talking about something similar earlier this morning in the #indieweb-dev channel.
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[chrisaldrich] [Katherine] If you need help and are building it in WordPress, do stop by the #indieweb-wordpress channel and ask away. There are also a bunch of Online Homebrew Website Club meetings this coming week if you want to stop by one of those for help/discussion: https://events.indieweb.org/
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[Katherine] yes! i usually go to the sf ones. ill join the wordpress channel, thank you
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[chrisaldrich] I suspect there are enough WordPress plugins that will get you where you need to go that you can probably do it without touching any code at all.
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