#indieweb 2020-07-09

2020-07-09 UTC
kingpapa and [tantek] joined the channel
#
Loqi [indienews] New post: https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/41319324-8a31-41aa-a61a-6851fdf78a6c
KempfCreative, wolftune, tinfoil-hat, [schmarty], beko, [Jose_Leiva], kingpapa, nickodd, [hibs], KartikPrabhu, Hessery, treora, [fluffy], [tw2113], gRegorLove_, peterrother, flaki, markopasha, jbove, vilhalmer, dckc, shakeel, swentel, gxt, [tonz] and [itsjustk] joined the channel; nickodd left the channel
#
[itsjustk] I'm going through the indiecamp west videos, enjoying them so far 🙂
Simounet, KartikPrabhu, [KevinMarks], swentel, quailstime, [jgmac1106], markopasha, KempfCreative, dckc, danchoi, [tantek], cjw6k, wolftune, [schmarty], markong, seekr, markoong, gRegorLove_, KempfCreative1 and plutes joined the channel
#
[tantek] reflecting on whether or not to bother defining "feudal internet". it came up in HWC West Coast discussions last night. thoughts?
nickodd and cambridgeport90 joined the channel
#
cambridgeport90 Hi.
#
cambridgeport90 I disappeared for a couple of days, but I should be back here more or less full time so to speak now.
rknLA_, j4yav_ and cambridgeport90 joined the channel
#
[tantek] great notes https://martymcgui.re/2020/07/09/my-notes-from-hwc-west-coast-2020-07-08/ [schmarty]++
#
Loqi [schmarty] has 15 karma in this channel over the last year (66 in all channels)
cjk101010_, kingpapa, ludovicchabant, myfreeweb, bjoern and jfkimmes[m] joined the channel
#
[schmarty] tantek: i forgot to look it up last night during HWC but it reminds me of how we already have definitions and discussions on /sharecropping
#
[schmarty] of course all of these terms come with ✨baggage✨
Salt[m], dazinism, OberstKrueger[m], freekurt, perflyst[m], nekr0z, samwilson, edrex, marinin[m], Matthew[m], benpa[m], kolaente, plindner[m], jamietanna[m], nino_, Rixon, pioneer[m], BigShip, benpa[m]1, crowdhailer, sud0x3[m], ARH[m], pauho[m], hobbsy[m], JK_na, kikurage, pfefferle[m], GonZo2k, kir0ul, Lohn[m], jorge-jbs, samclarke[m], glenn[m], davidized[m], mxuribe[m] and fredcy_ joined the channel
#
[schmarty] [Ana_Rodrigues] hahaha, yes! i am trying to get ahead of my own future disappointment by acknowledging that what i want to tackle is probably Too Much. 😅
#
Loqi nice
#
GWG [schmarty]: Is there a better term for sharecropping?
#
[schmarty] "better" is going to be very subjective.
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] What is the metaphor trying to achieve?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "metaphor trying to achieve" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "metaphor trying to achieve is ____", a sentence describing the term)
kingpapa, leg, wolftune, jamietanna and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] Might be easier to define "not indieweb"? And then aggregate those ideas, metaphors, and thoughts on an antonyms page to reflect the related discussions around them.
kingpapa joined the channel
#
[snarfed] "someone else's" :troll:
kingpapa, wiedi, danchoi, leg and [fluffy] joined the channel
#
petermolnar [snarfed]
#
petermolnar [snarfed]++
#
Loqi [snarfed] has 32 karma in this channel over the last year (90 in all channels)
kingpapa, KempfCreative1, [KevinMarks] and kensp joined the channel; nickodd left the channel
#
jacky tbh I think leaving the use of sharecropping will reinforce the dangers of it
#
jacky like it's one of those times where I yo-yo between wanting to teach versus wanting to educate (I learned that one is more compassionate than the other)
[tantek] and cambridgeport90 joined the channel
#
cambridgeport90 Afternoon folks.
kingpapa joined the channel
#
gRegorLove Hi cambridgeport90
wolftune and cambridgeport90 joined the channel
#
cambridgeport90 ARH[m]This is random, but who else is exticed for the return of Indigenous on iOS? I sure am.
#
cambridgeport90 And I seriously can't type today. Goly dang.
#
[KevinMarks] What's the modern metaphor for sharecropping? Driving for uber?
dopplergange joined the channel
#
[tantek] jacky, interesting distinction between teach and educate. was similarly having a conversation with a friend yesterday where "teach" feels slightly patronizing, implying a hierarchy, whereas I'm looking for a word that really means a peer to peer level framing
#
[tantek] teach is still useful in contexts where there is a mutually recognized difference in expertise, and mutual consent to participate in teaching / being taught
#
[tantek] jacky, so wait, do you think it's right to keep using the sharecropping analogy?
#
jacky yup! like education somehow (and I 100% think this is personal framing) hints at some sort of structure and institution where teaching is something that can be kind of p2p
#
jacky I'm torn on it tbh
#
jacky like the cons don't outweight the pros but I'm pressed to find something else that connects the impact of how silos move today without oversight
#
jacky I think gRegorLove made a mention to landlords which works to the same degree and is a bit more specific (your data lives somewhere and you pay in its metadata)
#
[tantek] rent is free but the walls & roof are all transparent lol
#
gRegorLove That was [schmarty], I just added +1 and some thoughts
#
jacky ahhh gotcha my fault
#
gRegorLove np
#
jacky ah but is the rent free? it seems free because it's near effortless for us to produce
#
gRegorLove > You're renting a platform for the price of your browsing habits, targeted advertisements
#
[tantek] yeah you show up and you get some space to put your stuff without having to pay money
#
gRegorLove + some restrictions on how the content may be distributed (algorithmic feeds)
#
[tantek] right, kinda like a giant transparent Big Brother house
#
[tantek] with cameras everywhere
#
gRegorLove act now and the platform may experience an incredible journey in 3 years!
leg left the channel
#
cambridgeport90 I still think it's possible to have a web without platforms. After all, many features that we think might have been created by platforms, and even if they were, serve a good purpose outside of such. Take the @-mention concept, for instance.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
cambridgeport90 I at this point only stay on Twitter because of a need to be there. It's where most news is, it's where most people are still, (unfortunately, not to diss the blind community, but they do tend to flip out when only a web browser exists for viewing. Most still think in terms of local clientts,) and also because I know that some of my techie contacts would make fun of me for leaving.
wolftune, KartikPrabhu, markong and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] My general rule if a metaphor involves American history or land don't use it. It's racist AF no matter your message
#
[jgmac1106] Oops thought I opened chat.. But while here share cropping, homesteading... Pass find a new metaphor.. Ask if you need one at all
#
[tantek] you do need metaphors because the initial proposition of social media is so appealing, and the initial harms so abstract, that you have nearly zero chance of communicating the harms succinctly without using a metahor
#
cambridgeport90 Definitely agree.
#
jacky right
#
jacky we can def do a good job at balancing harm and message delivery tho
#
cambridgeport90 I mean, I think as long as we continue to advocate for what we have been doing already, we'll be fine.
[dave], wolftune and hs0ucy joined the channel