#indieweb 2020-07-22

2020-07-22 UTC
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jacky
oh I missed christianbundy
kensp and [tantek] joined the channel
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prologic
Heh twtxt.net (and its software) is kind of taking off :) Good! šŸŽ‰
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prologic
Cloudflare tells me its getting about ~10k hits/day now
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prologic
and growing
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aaronpk
how can i get my posts from my website on twtxt?
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jacky
was looking for this
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prologic
You want to import your twtxt posts from another place?
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prologic
and affectively merge them into one place?
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aaronpk
i admit i haven't fully looked into what this is yet, but i have no interest in making an account somewhere, so can i still participate?
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aaronpk
twtxt.net has a "register" link
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jacky
I think so? prologic
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jacky
you familiar with the concept of POSSE?
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jacky
what is POSSE
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Loqi
POSSE is an abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere, a content publishing model that starts with posting content on your own domain first, then syndicating out copies to 3rd party services with permashortlinks back to the original on your site https://indieweb.org/POSSE
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jacky
I want to do that ^
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prologic
aaronpk participate? Yes
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prologic
But as you know twtxt is "decentralised"
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aaronpk
it looks like i'd need to make another feed format on my site for this?
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prologic
So either host your own twtxt feed somewhere
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prologic
Or run a twtxt instance yourself on your own domain/hardware
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jacky
hmmmm
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prologic
I can publish binaries if that helps and even docker images
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prologic
software is pretty easy to run
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aaronpk
i need special software for this?
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prologic
requires zero configuration
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prologic
No you do not :)
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aaronpk
i guess i don't quite understand what this is
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prologic
But that's what powers https://twtxt.net :)
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prologic
You only need to host a twtxt.txt file :)
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prologic
That was the whole point of twtxt; I'm just making it eaier/convenient for the "masses"
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aaronpk
so twtxt.net is like an aggregator?
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prologic
No.
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prologic
Its a full-featured client
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prologic
a "hosted" client
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aaronpk
so can i get my posts from my own website to show up there?
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prologic
https://feeds.twtxt.net/ is an RSS/Atom -> twtxt feed aggregator
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prologic
Yes you can.
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prologic
Are they available in RSS/Atom form?
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aaronpk
among other things
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aaronpk
like microformoats
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prologic
Then show them into feeds.twtxt.net
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prologic
give it a name
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prologic
and it'll appear in https://twtxt.net/feeds on the next update (~15m)
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prologic
Then others on this instance can discover your RSS/Atom feed via twtxt
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prologic
which also makes your blog available to other twtxt clients too
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aaronpk
well i only put my blog posts in the atom feed because most people who put my feed into an RSS reader don't expect the flood of microblog posts from my site
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aaronpk
do you have a microformats or jsonfeed converter?
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prologic
sorry jacky got side tracked with aaronpk :)
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prologic
Yes I'm familiar with POSE
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jacky
nah aaronpk's asking what I'd be asking
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prologic
And it seems you actually want to migrate/import a twtxt feed to twtxt.net?
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jacky
but more quickly lol
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prologic
I was thinking about this myself as I've mvoed my own feed around a few times already
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prologic
and it would be nice to "import" it and merge my multiple personas into one place
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aaronpk
so twtxt.net is an aggregator then if it's pulling content in from other domains
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prologic
I started out with my twtxt feed at https://prologic.github.io/twtxt.txt
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prologic
See the last/final post :)
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aaronpk
i guess what i'm confused about is what am i looking at on https://twtxt.net? where are those posts coming from?
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prologic
[11:10:51] <@aaronpk> do you have a microformats or jsonfeed converter? <-- Just https://feeds.twtxt.net at the which consumes RSS/Atom and produces twtxt
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prologic
Ahh aaronpk those posts are from taht instance alone
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prologic
a "global timeline" of that one instance
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prologic
Logged in users see what they follow/subscribe to/etc
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prologic
So yes its an aggregator if you will
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aaronpk
so someone who has an account there could subscribe to my feed if i had a twtxt file on my website?
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prologic
I don't actually know how many sources of feeds the backend is fetching right now, but my own account I'm following over ~90 feeds
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prologic
aaronpk yes
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prologic
or subscribe via an intermediary feed with feeds.twtxt.net
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prologic
feeds.twtxt.net bridges RSS/Atom -> twtxt (one way of coruse)
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aaronpk
okay, so it's a reader for twtxt feeds that can also create twtxt feeds?
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prologic
might be good to bridge to other micro-formats too perhaps but I know so little about how micro.pub works
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prologic
aaronpk correct
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prologic
isn't that what a "client" is :)
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prologic
its a client + host/server
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aaronpk
i think of a "client" as an interface to some backend server somewhere
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prologic
FWIW I didn't come up with the twtxt spec :)
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prologic
bucket did over in #twtxt
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jacky
you're the resident expert ;)
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prologic
I just (late to the party) decided to try to attempt to revitalise the twtxt community and create this self-hosted client/server for the masses :)
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prologic
its not hard to be an expert in a plain text file format that is basically:
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prologic
<date>\t<text>\n
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prologic
:D
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aaronpk
...until you want to start doing things like linking to things, adding photos, etc ;-)
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prologic
aaronpk it is that too :)
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prologic
under the hood twtxt.net (and the software) actually uses plain text twtxt.txt files :)
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prologic
the rest of what you see is "sugar" on top :)
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prologic
no :)
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prologic
you can link to phltos :)
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prologic
at least on this client you can!
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prologic
or rather the Markdown render will render them :)
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aaronpk
oh so you have to know markdown too now :)
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prologic
But yes @mentions and linking to individual posts is quite hard
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prologic
since the twtxt spec is quite open and lax
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prologic
and users in the wild could modify their own feed
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prologic
i.e: its not immutable so you can't make very many guarantees around the lines or the hashability of the lines
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aaronpk
it sounds like a lot of these principles overlap with the way microformats publishing and subscribing works, have you looked into any of the current indieweb reader ecosystem?
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prologic
Know Markdown? no :)
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prologic
you know as well as I do that if you just spew text
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prologic
it'll just look like text :P
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prologic
aaronpk only a little bit
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prologic
I'm somewhat familiar with micro.pub
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prologic
and actually used it a fair bit over at https://prologicblog/
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prologic
Also ActivityPub (but only scratched the surface there)
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prologic
But I'm an old(ish) UNIX nerd; so building things around plain text files really attracted me to this :D
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] An IndieWeb reader: My new home on the internet
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aaronpk
it's similar except instead of plain text it's HTML with microformats for structure but so that it also looks nice in a browser, plus also an API to create posts from the reader on the person's website
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aaronpk
the analogy in twtxt would be if your twtxt.net client could create new entries in the twtxt file on my website if i log in
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prologic
I see
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prologic
I'll have a read for sure
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prologic
There are a few things I like about some of the things I've found that were developed in the IndieWeb
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prologic
like for example IndieAuth
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prologic
which I want to build support for in twtxt.net
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aaronpk
yeah that would let me log in there without needing to sign up and make a password
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prologic
correct
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aaronpk
(and later would also give twtxt.net a way to make posts on my website)
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prologic
But your feed would live on twtxt.net
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prologic
But I don't think you'd have a problem with that right?
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aaronpk
well i want my posts to live on my website
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prologic
Yes the other way around (twtxt.net making posts to your webstie) I'm not sure on :)
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prologic
I'll read your blog posts on this though
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aaronpk
i like using well-design clients, but i want the content i make in those apps to live on my website
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prologic
*nods*
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prologic
I totally understand
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prologic
that's why I built twtxt.net in the first place
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prologic
my content lives on my ifnra :)
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prologic
I actually want people to spin up their own instances
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prologic
I'd even consider putting a cap on user registration
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prologic
or disabling it at some point :)
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prologic
(which is a feature)
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aaronpk
hosting other people's content is always a liability
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aaronpk
i try to avoid that whenever possible
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aaronpk
i prefer to create services that aggregate content from elsewhere so that people own their data
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prologic
*nods*
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aaronpk
i will leave the content hosting projects to others who are better equipped to handle that responsibility, like micro.blog :)
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prologic
This will be much easier to do at some point when you can offer "hosted instances for a fee"
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prologic
if you have the technical experience, do it yourself :)
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aaronpk
but even then it's better if people can bring their domain so that they still own the *identity* behind the content
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prologic
If you don't, pay a cup of coffee a month to have one :)
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prologic
*nods*
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prologic
absolutely agree
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prologic
I still have much work to do before that's ready
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prologic
But if anyone here is interested in spinning up their own instance of twtxt.net and work with me that would be helpful; I'm sure there are quirks/bugs/etc :)
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prologic
or nuances that are not obvious
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[tantek]
prologic, rather than spinning up instances of the same software to interoperate, folks in the IndieWeb community encourage a plurality of OSS instances that interoperate via standard protocols. are there specific protocols that twtxt supports that you'd like other implementations
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[tantek]
to test interop with?
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prologic
[tantek] tbh I don't right now know what other protocols would be suitable for interop
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prologic
But your statement is right; I agree
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[tantek]
other protocols in addition to ?
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prologic
Open to idea though; like should the software know how to use the micro.pub protocol?
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prologic
I don't know :)
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[tantek]
ah! I suppose it depends on what user feature you want to test interop on first!
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prologic
Yeah good question; I don't actualyl know
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prologic
I have to go read the micro.pub spec again to see what's possibke
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[tantek]
what user feature would you want to test between two different instances?
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prologic
Existing features? none. They all work I know they do :)
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prologic
But as aaronpk points out it would be nice to say be able to login with your own indieauth identity
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prologic
But that has to be built as a new feature :)
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prologic
It _might_ be nice if you could post to your twtxt.net account via micro.pub maybe?
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[tantek]
I mean two different instances running different software ā€” which of those that "all work" would you want to try testing first?
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[tantek]
which of those "existing features" that "all work" that is
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prologic
Is @<mention>'ing a user on another micro.pub compatible instance (say micro.pub itself) a thing?
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prologic
Or say a Mastadon user?
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prologic
That could be useful I suppose, not sure how this would work the other way around though is my only worry
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aaronpk
It'd be a hyperlink to someone's website from the post
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aaronpk
what is a mention?
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Loqi
A mention is a post which links to another post without explicitly being in response to it https://indieweb.org/mention
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aaronpk
hm not quite, do we have a more specific page?
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jacky
would it be a /person-tag
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aaronpk
Tagging is also more specific
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aaronpk
what is an at mention?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "at mention" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "at mention is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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prologic
Yeah like I keep saying; I don't know (yet)
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prologic
These are all good questions and good ideas
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prologic
You can read about some of the discussions back in ~2016 on https://github.com/bucket/twtxt as well'
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prologic
things like @mentions discoverability, etc
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prologic
I will in time try to solve (even if partially) some of them here and at the same time figure out how to interop with more indieweb "things"
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cambridgeport90[
I think the thing is that we need more simpler ways of doing person-tags.[tw2113]:
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[tw2113]
iā€™m going to agree, but I am not sure i was the intended person mentioned šŸ™‚
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jacky
there's a bit of chat about this in #indieweb-dev, cambridgeport90[
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cambridgeport90[
I need to join that channel. And no, you weren't. I haven't yet figured the equivalent mention syntax when joining the network via Matrix.
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[tw2113]
no worries here
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reidjs
hello
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reidjs
i'm trying to set up a micropub on my nginx webserver, but when I try to auth through iA Writer I keep getting an "IndieAuth Not Found" error, despite having all the relevant indieweb links in my index.html <head>
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jacky
cambridgeport90[: there's info on that at https://indieweb.org/discuss
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reidjs
i was able to auth w/ indieweb.org & quill, so maybe it's an issue w/ iA writer??
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jacky
reidjs: what's your URL?
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reidjs
reidjs.tech
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jacky
do you see anything in your logs from iA Writer?
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[tantek]
what is a person mention
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Loqi
person mention is a homepage webmention sent to a person's homepage https://indieweb.org/person-mention
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aaronpk
Awkward name but that is the feature!
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[tantek]
ok now that that's settled.
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[tantek]
what is I WRiter?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "I WRiter" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "I WRiter is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek]
what is IA Writer
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Loqi
iA Writer is a markdown-based writing application focused on simple and distraction-free writing, which also supports the Micropub standard for publishing to numerous services, and specifically to WordPress servers, Medium, and Ghost https://indieweb.org/iA_Writer
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[tantek]
I have not heard/seen the error "IndieAuth Not Found" before, maybe we need to document it on the wiki and try to troubleshoot what's happening?
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Summer[m]
Would I be welcome as an observer on the Micropub pop ups - https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/Micropub? I've only just started developing a Micropub client and am afraid don't have the time so pitch in with more.
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Summer[m]
* Would I be welcome as an observer on the Micropub pop ups - https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/Micropub? I've only just started developing a Micropub client and am afraid don't have the time to pitch in.
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Summer[m]
* Would I be welcome as an observer on the Micropub pop ups - https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/Micropub? I've only just started developing a Micropub client and am afraid don't have the time to pitch in with solutions and such.
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Summer[m]
* Would I be welcome as an observer on the Micropub pop ups - https://indieweb.org/2020/Pop-ups/Micropub? I've only just started developing a Micropub client and am afraid don't have the time to pitch in with solutions and such to any open issues.
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sknebel
Summer[m]: sure!
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sknebel
(side note: please leave typos etc - editing doesn't play well with the bridges to IRC and Slack, since it repeats the entire message)
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Summer[m]
Ohh whoops. Thanks for the note. I didn't know this.
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sknebel
no worries :)
jeremy, jalcine[m], swentel, markopasha, ketudb, prologic and jeremycherfas joined the channel
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Guest73313
Good morning IndieWeb
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Ruxton
fuuu brke my laptop LCD :(
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Guest73313
Oh noes.
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sknebel
good morning. is that you, Jeremy? :D
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Guest73313
It is, but I can't seem to get nickserve to recognise me.
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Guest73313
Trying again from scratch.
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jeremycherfas
Hopeless. My normal voodoo is not working today.
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jeremycherfas
Oh! Well, that's a surprise. I guess it is working. Ah well ...
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Zegnat
What is NickServ?
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Loqi
Nickserv is an IRC service that allows registering and protecting your nickname https://indieweb.org/Nickserv
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Zegnat
Hmm, I thought I documented some of that stuff somewhere. Maybe I did not.
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jeremycherfas
I did, locally, but the messages I get back are confusing to say the least. And I have no idea how to remove all the various guest identities from my client (Textual). I suppose I should ask in their channel.
gRegorLove, markong, markoong, KartikPrabhu, markopasha, fedorafa_, [KevinMarks], hs0ucy, cjk101010_, jmac, shakeel, jfkimmes[m], KempfCreative, benpa[m], Lohn[m], reed[m], jalcine[m], samwilson, edrex, bascht[m], alvinsj[m], Rixon, GonZo2k, Matthew[m], nekr0z, Salt[m], pioneer[m], nino_, glenn[m], freekurt, perflyst[m], kolaente, fredcy_, patcoll[m], samclarke[m], AliRezaHayati[m], mxuribe[m], Summer[m], JK_na, pauho[m], crowdhailer, benpa[m]1, plindner[m], paulopinto[m], jamietanna[m], pfefferle[m], davidized[m], sud0x3[m], hobbsy[m], OberstKrueger[m], kir0ul, cambridgeport90[, aveltens[m], [jgmac1106], yanahx07, ndegruchy, dckc, [manton], PetriBot, wolftune, [schmarty], [grantcodes], [Ana_Rodrigues], KempfCreative1, jeremych_ and [calumryan] joined the channel; fedorafa_ and plindner[m] left the channel
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Adding Webmentions to My Static Hugo Site" https://anaulin.org/blog/adding-webmentions/
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ndegruchy
Great meetup, [Ana_Rodrigues]
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[Ana_Rodrigues]
Thanks for joining us!
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[michael_lewis]
[Ana_Rodrigues] Yes, thanks for organising - good to put faces and voices to names
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[jeremycherfas]
Agreed. [Ana_Rodrigues]++
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Loqi
[Ana_Rodrigues] has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (9 in all channels)
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