#indieweb 2020-10-19

2020-10-19 UTC
archwizard, reed[m], avalos, wolftune, KempfCreative, a_chou, nickodd and gRegorLove joined the channel
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sknebel good morning indieweb!
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gRegorLove o/ sknebel
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GWG gRegorLove: Haven't seen you around, hope all is well
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DigDug bows
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beko o/
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DigDug would you care to check out my indieweb-oriented forum?
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beko Huh? How does that look?
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jacky I can imagine it being similar to news.indieweb.org
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jacky sending a post that replies to the site as a new topic
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jacky then replying to the post itself as regular
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b3u Hi, got a question: How do I "like" an article I just read, and have it show up as a webmention?
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aaronpk what is a like?
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aaronpk oops
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/like
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b3u lol. What I mean is, there doesn't seem to be a standard way to find the syndicated tweet, and like that tweet.
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b3u for example
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[snarfed] b3u: https://indieweb.org/u-syndication
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aaronpk oh that's a very different question
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aaronpk if you post a "like" of an article you can send a webmention to that article directly
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aaronpk if that article has a corresponding tweet then the article may link to that tweet with u-syndication
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Loqi [snarfed] aaronpk: would you mind moving this conversation to #indieweb-dev? thanks!
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aaronpk fair enough
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b3u What sort of post would a now page be?
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b3u I don't want to confuse it with blog posts
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aaronpk i did mine as a "page", which is essentially the same as an article except it doesn't show up in dated feeds
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/page
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b3u Huh. Are your "pages" included in an rss feed?
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aaronpk no, because rss feeds are dated feeds
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b3u Isn't a now page dated? Idealy you're updating it constantly.
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aaronpk it's not really dated in the way that blog posts are dated *because* it's continuously updated
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[chrisaldrich] That's one of the problems with now pages. Who wants to update it constantly?
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b3u me 😊
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aaronpk i automate as much of my now page as possible :)
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[chrisaldrich] I've been looking lately at generating a now page based on the N most recent Watches, Listens, Reads, etc....
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[chrisaldrich] I thought that too when I started mine b3u, but it get's pretty tedious pretty quickly
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[chrisaldrich] even doing it once a month....
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aaronpk that's a good idea [chrisaldrich]
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[chrisaldrich] and if you're posting all those things, you presumably have them on your site (or in a database) to draw on...
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b3u I try to update it 4 times a year.
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aaronpk depends on your definition of "now" i guess :)
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aaronpk 3 months ago is "now" in some contexts but not others
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[chrisaldrich] good idea aaronpk, let's create a /recently movement next 😁
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[chrisaldrich] </sarcasm>
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jacky lol
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jacky I like that
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[chrisaldrich] What is now?
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Loqi A now page is a page that tells you what a person is focused on at this point in their life https://indieweb.org/Now
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[chrisaldrich] There are a few examples and pros/cons on that page I think.
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b3u I also want to create a spotify-listening-habits page. The point is that I have a single page which is updated on a consistent basis.
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b3u It's not a collection of pages. It's a single page, but it's not an article. It's also not a note.
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aaronpk that sounds like the definition of "page"
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b3u Ah. So how would I notify people that I updated it?
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aaronpk the first thing to answer is how do you expect people to be consuming it?
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aaronpk if the answer is "in a feed reader" then you're going to be fitting a square peg into a round hole and half your readers will always be unhappy :)
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b3u So, you think they should be separate pages if they're in a feed?
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aaronpk no, i'm saying that a "page" by definition is not in a feed
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b3u ah
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aaronpk and if you try to make it into something that goes into a feed, then that is an article/blog post
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jacky a good/interesting question on the bird site https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/1318052917979410432
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@shanselman Considering removing dates from my blog and website as folks keep saying “oldie but a goodie” to 1 year old posts. Thoughts? (twitter.com/_/status/1318052917979410432)
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[chrisaldrich] what is your site built on b3u?
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aaronpk and trying to notify people that it's been updated means continually bumping it to the top of their reader which will probably just annoy them
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[chrisaldrich] or alternately, what is your domain name?
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b3u binyam.in
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[chrisaldrich] clever URL btw
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b3u Thanks
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b3u I'm thinking of displaying it as the most recent "update", and coding it as a note with a tag.
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b3u I already have notes, and they're in a different context.
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[chrisaldrich] When I was doing them more regularly my now pages were separate pages which I archived over time and kept the static /now page which updated.
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jacky tbh the work of sending webmentions in a "safe" matter from a static site is a bit more complex than that of a conventional site
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jacky like it sounds like a lot of delta work _every_ time the site is built
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[chrisaldrich] I did briefly consider doing them as notes so they'd pop up in my feed automatically and just redirecting the /now page to point to it, but figured the duplication was a bit much within the firehose of the rest of my feed.
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b3u Couldn't you have a separate feed for "now" notes, or general updates?
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[chrisaldrich] that's an option too... then people who just want the overview could subscribe to that...
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aaronpk i've thought about doing something similar for my "life stack" page
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aaronpk right now it's just one page, and i add and remove things from it on occasion, but each thing there is really a mini review
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[chrisaldrich] but then you may as well go the step further and turn it into an email newsletter while you're at it.
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aaronpk so it should be possible to compile that page dynamically by collecting all the review posts
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[chrisaldrich] or the summaries of the reviews 🙂
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aaronpk ah yea
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[chrisaldrich] we all need more p-summary in our lives
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aaronpk just realized my life stack page was last updated in march, right before i stopped traveling 😂 i bet some things are pretty different now
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[chrisaldrich] I'm looking at my out of date Now page and it does remind me that it was helpful for reminding me of the things I wanted to spend time focusing on and to deter me from wasting time on things I didn't want to focus on.
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aaronpk interesting
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[chrisaldrich] awaits lifestack: coronavirus edition
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[chrisaldrich] historians will appreciate the list of hand sanitizers and masks you chose to use...
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aaronpk heh
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b3u Okay, I appreciate all the help here. Would you put a "how-I-made-this-site" as a page or article?
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b3u People might want that in a feed.
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aaronpk what is a colophon?
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Loqi A colophon is a page or section, like a footer, of a site that describes how the site is made, with what tools, supporting what technologies https://indieweb.org/colophon
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aaronpk i'm hesitant to put anything in feeds that isn't specifically a dated post
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[schmarty] b3u: i'd say that's a strong "depends"! many sites have a "colophon" page like aaronpk linked, which says how a site works. i am a fan of writing longer-form dated posts about new features as i add or update them.
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aaronpk yeah! that's similar to the review thing i mentioned
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[schmarty] been a while since i properly wrote and tagged one up, honestly, but i have a feed of them at this tag: https://martymcgui.re/tag/site-update/
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aaronpk personally i would be annoyed if someone's entire colophon page appeared in a feed. but i would appreciate reading a post about incremental updates to it!
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[schmarty] agreed, aaronpk! i feel like it's appropriate to have a feed of dated posts announcing major updates to otherwise-not-in-a-feed pages.
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petermolnar aaronpk: isn't the question really how to send updates of existing content?
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[schmarty] even if just a short note like "It's been a few months but I finally updated my /now page!"
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aaronpk petermolnar: only sort of, because the answer to that depends on how the content is being read
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petermolnar as in should an update (post, page, doesn't matter) re-enter the feed with the update timestamp?
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petermolnar [schmarty]: I believe I've done that in my 2002 version.
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b3u petermolnar: That would answer my question, yes.
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aaronpk that's the plumbing answer, but you need to go a step higher and figure out the user experience answer first
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petermolnar re jacky: one of the responses in that thread is "I distrust content without dates". I'm tempted to link Pythagoras, or, basically, any greek philosopher.
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petermolnar aaronpk: that I understand. An example, in my opinion, would be a last.fm last month listening habits, that updates every month. It should go in the feed, BUT instead of a page, it could also just be a symlink - redirect - to the actual month page. However, /now is a different beast - given the nature, I wouldn't put in a feed either, unless it's interval based, but then it's not /now, is it?
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petermolnar (plumbing perspective: if a feed is a pub/sub protocol, then anything can go in there, the users will pick what they need.)
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b3u Maybe this topic is similar to newsletters versus blog posts. You probably write your newsletter separate from your blog post.
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b3u But it boils down to the same topic, which is the blog post's topic,.
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b3u so with every update to the colophon, I would post an update with the gist of the update and then manually change the colophon itself.
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b3u * every major update, that is
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lahacker isn't this kind of like the wiki edit "summary" feature? eg. https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=wiki&action=edit
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lahacker feed at https://indieweb.org/Special:RecentChanges
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[chrisbergr] Make a feed called e.g. "news" parallel to notes, articles, checkins, whatever and post after every change on your static pages something like "I've just updated example.com/page/xyz"
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[chrisbergr] Or you use the notifications api for your static pages, but many people (including me) wouln't allow you to send those notifications.
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[kimberlyhirsh] Sometimes when I update my now page, I post a note with a link to it. For things like Spotify listens, I would probably create listen posts and have a feed that aggregates them, as well as a "page" that only displays those posts - using categories, tags, types, or kinds, depending on the CMS/set-up.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Providing Hints for Autoconfiguring Micropub Clients" https://www.jvt.me/posts/2020/10/19/micropub-client-autoconfigure-hints/
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