#indieweb 2021-01-05

2021-01-05 UTC
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btrem [KevinMarks]: laughing at "manual until it hurts".
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jdp i have been looking for a citation from TBL for a while. maybe somebody else knows where to find it. it's a soundbyte of him (or maybe someone else?) talking about how users of the web weren't intended to write html directly. your user agent was envisioned to function as the authoring tool as well as the reading tool
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btrem https://blog.steren.fr/2020/my-stack-will-outlive-yours/ I'm actually moving /away/ from html + css for my very small site, only because I don't want to "manually" create permalinks. That seems like a recipe for disaster.
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[tantek] jdp that statement is from his book, "Weaving the Web"
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[tantek] pretty sure I quoted it in my book review, let me see...
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jdp [tantek]: aha thank you
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btrem jdp: I definitely remember reading that somewhere (not hearing it). But a quick ddg search turns up nothing. :(
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btrem I think the http put method was probably envisioned as a way to for a web client to create a page. BICBW.
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[tantek] jdp, here you go: https://tantek.com/log/2003/0813t1158.html#handauthoring
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jdp from deep in the archives. thanks [tantek]
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[tantek] :thumbsup_all:
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jdp btrem: interesting. browsers now have facilities for in-place editing that they didn't have back then, like contenteditable and visual inspectors. it would be cool if the browser also had a button to put or post an updated resource back to the server. would at least be cool for tiddlywiki-type pages
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btrem Yes. The put method has rarely been used. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it in the wild.
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btrem Generally, apis that I've seen use post to create a resource.
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jdp i have seen some api's in the wild using put but it's unpredictable. it is very rarely a "replace" operation, there's usually some ad-hoc implied merge semantic attached
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[KevinMarks] PUT has the CRUD problem of requiring every client to fully understand the resource
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[KevinMarks] POST more clearly makes it the servers job to accept/reject and merge
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btrem jdp Which (I think) is wrong. It's supposed to be idempotent. A merge might be, might not be.
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[KevinMarks] I wrote a bit about this https://t.co/h2PGnQoTur?amp=1
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[KevinMarks] Gah http://www.kevinmarks.com/cthulu.html
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[tantek] lol
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Loqi CTHULU beats CRUD 2016-05-04
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[tantek] jdp, btrem, agreed with what [KevinMarks] said. Another way of looking at it is that PUT and POST were not really proven out with multiple interoperable implementations for "editing", and thus were prototype protocols at best, that now in practice serve only a fraction of the use-cases they were intended for
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[tantek] it turns out for editing you need A LOT more semantics / precision than PUT and POST, and since this is now a *protocol* discussion, it should be taken to #indieweb-dev
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btrem Ah, yes, sorry, wasn't paying attention to the forum.
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[tantek] no worries! it's easy to forget when it gets quiet 🙂
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btrem And easy to forget when you have both forums open on the tab. The downside to my recent discovery of how to participate in several channels at the same time. ;-)
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ciccarellome[m] I thought this conversation with Joel Spolsky had some interesting points about network affects and social technology. Conversation gets going around 14:00 https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/01/01/podcast-300-welcome-to-2021-with-joel-spolsky/
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[tw2113_Slack_] I
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[tw2113_Slack_] I'm so glad that Robin Rendle linked to his source for the illustrations from his Newsletter post today. I was liking those
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clawfire @GWG yep I understood that. I'm just starting for now, and all my sites are static page generated with a generator (jekyll or other) so I'll have to look to deploy a service that track webmentions for them if I want to be autonomous on this
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Zegnat What is BREAD?
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Loqi BREAD refers to the ability to Browse, Read, Edit, Add and Delete, and alternative to CRUD https://indieweb.org/BREAD
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Zegnat Gets my vote to replace CRUD, ever since voxpelli explained it to me
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voxpelli +1
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[jeremycherfas] Save Open Use Reuse Delete Order Undelete Grep Host ???
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btrem :-D
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btrem Took me a moment to work that one out.
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[jeremycherfas] You’re not as familiar with my obsessions as Zegnat
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Bridgy browser extension for Instagram" https://snarfed.org/2021-01-05_bridgy-browser-extension-for-instagram
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[schmarty] snarfed++ wowowow congrats on the announcement!
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Loqi snarfed has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (55 in all channels)
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[snarfed] thanks schmarty!
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[tantek] snarfed++ awesome!
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Loqi snarfed has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (56 in all channels)
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[tantek] Hey do we have a page listing all the IndieWeb friendly browser extensions?
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[tantek] It would go a long way towards adoption to make it easy to find them all like that
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[tantek] Eg for Bridgy, micropub, etc
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[tantek] What is a browser extension?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "browser extension" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "browser extension is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] snarfed ^ want to stub that and list the Bridgy extension for starters?
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Zegnat Huh. I thought we had that page... Apparently not, must have been confusing it with /Safari_Extensions
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[frank] snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (57 in all channels)
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[frank] Pretty cool there’s a new extension. How do I use it?
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[frank] Install the extension, post on Instagram and watch magic unfold? Or are there more steps>?
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[snarfed] [frank] basically. after you install it, it starts a flow for you to IndieAuth into your website. then, just make sure you’re logged into Instagram (no open tab needed), and it will run in the background. status info in the extension settings page
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[KevinMarks] https://www.politico.com/news/agenda/2021/01/05/to-thrive-our-democracy-needs-digital-public-infrastructure-455061
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aaronpk [snarfed]++ wow this is easy
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Loqi [snarfed] has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (58 in all channels)
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aaronpk slick
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[snarfed] [frank] the initial poll is scheduled 5m after you install, to give you time to IndieAuth. then every 30m after that. try the Poll now button!
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[snarfed] thanks aaronpk!
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[frank] [snarfed] I tried it several times over the last hour or so. The Poll now button doesn’t change anything but the time after Last attempt. But what should it do actually? Pick up my latest instagram post and post it on my blog? To be honest, that’s not really clear right now…
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aaronpk i still need to finish porting ownyourgram to a browser extension too. bridgy is just for the likes and comments, like normal
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[snarfed] [frank] are you logged into Instagram? and not using Firefox Container Tabs?
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[frank] Oh yeah, I use the FF container tabs…
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[snarfed] ah that’s it, not compatible right now 😢
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[snarfed] will add to docs
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[frank] But what I understand from [aaronpk] is I need something like Ownyourgram to post from Instagram to my blog and then have the bridgy extension pick up the likes and comments?
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aaronpk yep
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aaronpk except ownyourgram is broken right now and i need to turn it into a browser extension like bridgy
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[frank] Ah OK
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[snarfed] [frank] the bridgy extension definitely needs more docs and UI. thanks for the nudge!