#indieweb 2021-01-05
2021-01-05 UTC
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btrem [KevinMarks]: laughing at "manual until it hurts".
# jdp i have been looking for a citation from TBL for a while. maybe somebody else knows where to find it. it's a soundbyte of him (or maybe someone else?) talking about how users of the web weren't intended to write html directly. your user agent was envisioned to function as the authoring tool as well as the reading tool
# btrem https://blog.steren.fr/2020/my-stack-will-outlive-yours/ I'm actually moving /away/ from html + css for my very small site, only because I don't want to "manually" create permalinks. That seems like a recipe for disaster.
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# jdp [tantek]: aha thank you
# btrem jdp: I definitely remember reading that somewhere (not hearing it). But a quick ddg search turns up nothing. :(
# btrem I think the http put method was probably envisioned as a way to for a web client to create a page. BICBW.
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[tantek] jdp, here you go: https://tantek.com/log/2003/0813t1158.html#handauthoring
# jdp from deep in the archives. thanks [tantek]
# jdp btrem: interesting. browsers now have facilities for in-place editing that they didn't have back then, like contenteditable and visual inspectors. it would be cool if the browser also had a button to put or post an updated resource back to the server. would at least be cool for tiddlywiki-type pages
# btrem Yes. The put method has rarely been used. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it in the wild.
# btrem Generally, apis that I've seen use post to create a resource.
# jdp i have seen some api's in the wild using put but it's unpredictable. it is very rarely a "replace" operation, there's usually some ad-hoc implied merge semantic attached
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[KevinMarks] PUT has the CRUD problem of requiring every client to fully understand the resource
# [KevinMarks] POST more clearly makes it the servers job to accept/reject and merge
# btrem jdp Which (I think) is wrong. It's supposed to be idempotent. A merge might be, might not be.
# [KevinMarks] I wrote a bit about this https://t.co/h2PGnQoTur?amp=1
# [tantek] jdp, btrem, agreed with what [KevinMarks] said. Another way of looking at it is that PUT and POST were not really proven out with multiple interoperable implementations for "editing", and thus were prototype protocols at best, that now in practice serve only a fraction of the use-cases they were intended for
# btrem Ah, yes, sorry, wasn't paying attention to the forum.
# btrem And easy to forget when you have both forums open on the tab. The downside to my recent discovery of how to participate in several channels at the same time. ;-)
# ciccarellome[m] I thought this conversation with Joel Spolsky had some interesting points about network affects and social technology. Conversation gets going around 14:00 https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/01/01/podcast-300-welcome-to-2021-with-joel-spolsky/
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# [tw2113_Slack_] I
# [tw2113_Slack_] I'm so glad that Robin Rendle linked to his source for the illustrations from his Newsletter post today. I was liking those
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# clawfire @GWG yep I understood that. I'm just starting for now, and all my sites are static page generated with a generator (jekyll or other) so I'll have to look to deploy a service that track webmentions for them if I want to be autonomous on this
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Loqi BREAD refers to the ability to Browse, Read, Edit, Add and Delete, and alternative to CRUD https://indieweb.org/BREAD
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[jeremycherfas] Save Open Use Reuse Delete Order Undelete Grep Host ???
# btrem :-D
# btrem Took me a moment to work that one out.
# [jeremycherfas] You’re not as familiar with my obsessions as Zegnat
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# Loqi [indienews] New post: "Bridgy browser extension for Instagram" https://snarfed.org/2021-01-05_bridgy-browser-extension-for-instagram
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[schmarty] snarfed++ wowowow congrats on the announcement!
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "browser extension" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "browser extension is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat Huh. I thought we had that page... Apparently not, must have been confusing it with /Safari_Extensions
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