#indieweb 2021-06-02
2021-06-02 UTC
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[dianoetic] [chrisaldrich] I can see that. It's the fake landing page approach (you make a low-effort landing page for a product that doesn't exist yet then see if people sign up before you build it)
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# [dianoetic] I think a lot of indieweb-curious folks get lost in the weeds of website building and webmentions before writing their first post
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[capjamesg] [dianoetic] I think that's part of the fun but it is not for everyone.
# [capjamesg] I have been thinking about how to advocate for people creating their own websites and I keep coming back to the thought that a lot of people just need something that works.
# [capjamesg] And to see if they want to go further with it.
# [dianoetic] Def
# [dianoetic] initely
# [capjamesg] It's like getting into coffee at home (a metaphor based on my experience). You probably shouldn't buy a $1,000+ espresso machine on day one. You can get a brewer for $5-$30, easily. But if you like coffee after a year, you might rethink whether you want one.
# [capjamesg] (one being an espresso machine)
# [dianoetic] 🤣 You have been reading my diary...
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doosboox When I got into the indieweb thing I thought about the incredible hurdle ”having your own domain” is to overcome for most people
# [capjamesg] A friend asked me how they could set up a website like mine and that completely changed my perspective on what it actually takes to set up a website, even with the tools out there today.
# doosboox Yeah. It’s *hard*
# [capjamesg] What's your domain name [dianoetic]?
# [dianoetic] dianoetic.me
# [capjamesg] I actually wrote about why I stopped making espresso at home and thankfully avoided the purchase of a machine: https://jamesg.blog/2021/04/14/home-espresso-break
# [dianoetic] I think tech-inclined folks get blind to how many steps there are in something as "easy" as buying a domain
# [dianoetic] I mean, we do it every time a new idea pops into our heads...
# [dianoetic] just me?
# [capjamesg] I'm with you. Buying a domain is not that easy without a bit of research and reading.
# [capjamesg] It's not that buying a domain itself is really complex. It's just that without the right background knowledge it can get quite confusing very quickly.
# [dianoetic] Yeah. Just taking an understanding of WHOIS for granted
# [capjamesg] I want to write more about the actual building of a blog but it's hard for me because my blog is built with Jekyll and code. I'm still thinking about how to do something that's introductory and very basic. Really hard to figure out.
# [capjamesg] I'm asking people who read my blog (quite a coffee audience) to ask me questions about the blog to give me a starting point.
# [dianoetic] Smart approach
# [dianoetic] I hope you write about it, I'd be curious to where I can steer folks
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# [capjamesg] [dianoetic] I'm thinking about creating a very basic HTML page in the style of my blog for people to play with. But I'm not sure how interested anyone would be in that 🙂
# [capjamesg] Because it's not like having a template is going to take you to a full site. I think in whatever I do here I'll need to set expectations clearly upfront. Teaching someone with little to no programming experience how to set up a website is a long journey.
# [dianoetic] There's this: https://github.com/indieweb/blank-gh-site It's linked somewhere in the wiki and I made a PR for it. But it doesn't seem to have much interest
# [capjamesg] I have seen that. I do wonder how many of my readers will know what GitHub is / what to do with it haha.
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[KevinMarks] that is really the basis for going and learning html so there is a big step to get over afterwards
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# [capjamesg] I agree.
# doosboox [capjamesg]: I think even a "basic HTML page" is waaaaay too hard for most people. I learned HTML in an afternoon at age 13, but it took me at least another ten years before I learned how to put that somewhere that others can see online
# doosboox That's the hurdle we need to cross, and that's what silos make so easy
# doosboox enter email address and password, then just write stuff. Done
# doosboox 1) get a domain, 2) yeah, a domain is that thing that you write in the address bar. No, not *all* of it, just the bit between the :// and the first / at the end, 3) point the DNS to your IP. What do you mean you don't know what DNS or IP is? You didn't get a VPS? That was step 0. What, you never heard the term VPS either?
# [capjamesg] Yep. It's a hard one.
# [capjamesg] It's not just ease of use. It's a matter of how much time someone wants to spend setting up their site (link back to what I was saying about espresso at home: it's much easier to learn to make great filter coffee than it is to make an okay espresso).
# [capjamesg] Hehe 😄
# doosboox This is where I think https://small-tech.org/ gets things wrong. When they say "zero knowledge needed" they really mean "no knowledge needed except understanding what a domain is, how to use the command line, and how to register a subdomain at our site"
# [capjamesg] I agree. I think my place may be more chatting about personal websites more broadly.
# doosboox which is... more than nothing
# [capjamesg] I've already written a bit about why I started the site.
# [capjamesg] But there are probably other questions people want to ask about personal websites.
# doosboox yup
# doosboox 20 years ago I met a guy who'd held IT courses for senior citizens. Women exclusively, because the men of that generation didn't want to learn new things :D
# doosboox He told me how he'd got a bunch of old computers donated from businesses, and started off the course with just "what is a computer" and stuff like how to turn it on
# doosboox They met for 45 minutes once a week. After twenty weeks these old women were building websites about knitting, using notepad and a web hotel
# doosboox and e-mailed effortlessly with their grandchildren who'd moved abroad
# doosboox in that sense it absolutely isn't *hard* -- but you may need someone to hold your hand and figure out where you need to start, and you need a will to learn!
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# [capjamesg] I like that idea [Zegnat].
# [KevinMarks] I did buy my sons some domains when they were younger
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Loqi [Jeena] The IndieWeb - Martijn https://jeena.net/system/pods/photos/000/000/017/original/martijn.jpg?1526323119
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jeremycherfas zegnat++ That was such a good episode [Jeena]++
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# doosboox I run a family domain. For just me 😆
# doosboox Nobody else has shown interest yet
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# [snarfed] unrelated, just noticed this from a few months ago 😆 https://wordpress.com/blog/2021/03/08/introducing-wordpress-stories-a-new-way-to-engage-your-audience/
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# [tw2113_Slack_] what micro.blog is a silo?
# [tw2113_Slack_] given what i know, i’d say a silo of sorts but with all the windows open
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# reed too many channels split the community
# reed and provide very little added value (IMO)
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gRegor We've got a few and it's worked well to keep the main channel inviting / less jargon-y https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes
# Loqi write.as is a minimal UI blogging tool meant for quick posting with good pseudonymity https://indieweb.org/write.as
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petermolnar re registering a domain: nowadays it is easy. Period. When I started registering domains I had to send them copies of my ID cards, or, in case of a business, copies of something like the foundation agreements of the ltd, and so on - in Hungary, mid 2000s. I'm a bit tired of all the "it's not simple for everyone!" in a day when it's a guided, handheld clicking through nice websites.
# petermolnar no, there isn't. Nearly every domain registrar comes with package deals.
# petermolnar most of them has a button to add "gmail as mx" and that is all the config most will ever do, if they have to
# petermolnar here, example on today: https://wordpress.com/go/domains/set-up-custom-domain-on-wordpress-com/
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[aciccarello] The naming part of picking a domain can also be hard
# petermolnar naming _is_ hard, that I agree with
# petermolnar aaronpk: yes, I'm aware of the let's be nice principle, but there's a limit to saying how hard it is to register a domain in 2021
# petermolnar those who are able to register on facebook should be able to do it with the tools and services available
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[Murray] Choice is also a major downside of domains. As is the ridiculous variation in cost. On a whim, I wanted to check out what a particular .codes domain was earlier. It took me searching on four registrars to actually find one that had that TLD (and none of the 3 that didn't said anything about _not stocking_ that domain, just that it wasn't available) and when I did the cost was obscene (and yet still nothing compared to .com and others).
# doosboox petermolnar: 1) pick a domain. Why are the tlds priced so differently? Which one is best? Wait, they have different demands? Alright, I’ll pick one. 2) Would you like DNS with that? Huh? What’s that? Should I want that?
# doosboox 3) set up DNS records. Whaaaat?
# petermolnar what is DNS?
# Loqi DNS is an abbreviation for Domain Name Server and often used to refer to the configuring thereof on a domain name registrar https://indieweb.org/DNS
# doosboox [Murray]: the fact that you don’t is good! It means that maybe people don’t have to 😄
# petermolnar doosboox: choosing tld, imo, is part of the naming, not the reg process.
# petermolnar as for the 2) see the wp.com link above.
# doosboox Possibly both :) for me the pricing is a variable to take into consideration
# petermolnar I used to have .hu-s and .eu-s. After the brexit .eu fiasco, I decided to go with the: .net, .org, or .com - forget the rest.
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# petermolnar maybe. Or maybe I do remember when it was actually hard, and appreciate how much better it got.
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# [KevinMarks] Squarespace just had a huge ipo based on fixing this ux.
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@schnarfed @cynk one of my favorite quotes is: "Things have never been better. Things are bad. Things can get much better. Let's begin." (i think it's Hans Rosling, Max Roser, or Steven Pinker, but haven't found a good citation yet. hard to Google. 😆) (twitter.com/_/status/1259525693584498688)