#indieweb 2021-12-06

2021-12-06 UTC
Seirdy, gzj, GZJ0X_, KartikPrabhu and Prash joined the channel
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@flancian
Chatting with [[gyuri lajos]] about [[indiehub]]. Looking great, very exciting -- it's like a [[web native]] complement to the [[indieweb]] (all you need is a browser; it runs as a distributed system).
(twitter.com/_/status/1467458679662383105)
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[snarfed]
...the words are all familiar, but I couldn't parse the tweet, follow the conversation, or understand anything about the web site, https://anagora.org/indiehub
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[schmarty]
snarfed: I tried as well! Kinda seemed to me like wiki placeholders about an project named indiehub.
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[schmarty]
I checked out the listed mastodon account my and the best I can figure is it's a proposal to try IndieWeb(-style) building blocks on IPFS and other crowdhosted stuff
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[schmarty]
Oop. "my and" should just have been "and"
oodani, KartikPrabhu, sayanarijit[d], [snarfed], naaekluue`_numbe, Seirdy, tetov-irc, [fluffy]1, anonymou1, justSleigh, willnorris, [benji], [jeremycherfas], P1000[d], sennomo, grantcodes[d], _inky, [manton], [tantek], jjuran, [jeremyfelt], [jacky], rvalue, balupton[d], [KevinMarks], doosboox, IWSlackGateway, jeremycherfas, aranjedeath, kloenk, chenghiz_, Nuve, gerben, wrmilling, yar, edburns[d], joshproehl, srushe, silberfuchs, raucao, klez, timdream, lahacker[d], lanodan, distopico, sm2n, Bitweasil, benji, BinarySavior, rattroupe[d], daiyi[d], petermolnar, edgeduchess[d], mikeputnam, feoh, bneil, apophys, moose333, sknebel, Dystopia, Ruxton, raghavgururajan, vroman, MarkJR84[d], eco, push-f, nolith2, Abhas[m], samwilson, LaBcasse[m], rrix, Allie, duncanbeevers, stevestreza, jfkimmes[m] and zblesk[m] joined the channel
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[KevinMarks]
Indieweb stuff should work if they have a URL format that can be resolved - it did with dat/Beaker. The lack of that is what makes SSB hard to work with
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[KevinMarks]
The original WorldWideWeb explicitly embraced multiple URL formats, even though browsers seem to have mostly forgotten that now.
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[tantek]
^ maybe better for #indieweb-dev, e.g. formats
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[jgmac1106]
what is the guidance for writing alt text on comics, like in a 2-4 frame meme?
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[tantek]
oof tough question from [jgmac1106] on a Monday.
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[tantek]
I'd say try to summarize the story of the comic rather than providing literal transcription of the dialog.
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[tantek]
a literal transcript would be good for an alternate presentation at a different URL
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[Joe_Crawford]
[jgmac1106] I attended (some) of a seminar on the topic “*Adapting Comics for Blind and Low Vision Readers*” — here’s a google doc of the agenda which is the first thing I found when searching my email. https://docs.google.com/document/d/11hIqrMJ75YuLtUXbWf1CoxZstIVTf4k-1AleqXj3DpU/edit - LOTS OF STUFF IN THERE.
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[tantek]
[Joe_Crawford]++ wow what a resource!
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Loqi
[Joe_Crawford] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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[Joe_Crawford]
Right! I take no credit. I’m a mere comics enthusiast and play at making some and try to stay up with “comics thinking” for lack of a better term.
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[Joe_Crawford]
“Adapting Comics for Blind and Low Vision Readers: A Roundtable Discussion” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ94byTwat0
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[tantek]
what are comics
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Loqi
comics are one of many types of posts that you can publish on your own site, and usually involve one or more comic image frames laid out sequentially, sometimes with characters drawn in each frame speaking to each other https://indieweb.org/comics
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[tantek]
comics << Some accessibility tips for publishing comics: 2021-08-12 [https://docs.google.com/document/d/11hIqrMJ75YuLtUXbWf1CoxZstIVTf4k-1AleqXj3DpU/edit Comics A11Y Symposium 2021: Agenda]
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Loqi
ok, I added "Some accessibility tips for publishing comics: 2021-08-12 [https://docs.google.com/document/d/11hIqrMJ75YuLtUXbWf1CoxZstIVTf4k-1AleqXj3DpU/edit Comics A11Y Symposium 2021: Agenda]" to the "See Also" section of /comics https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78176&oldid=74937
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[Joe_Crawford]
Okay, just found the followup email. Posted to my own site. https://artlung.com/blog/2021/12/06/seminar-comics-a11y/
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Loqi
[Joe Crawford] Email from earlier this year. There’s a vibrant community of people talking about accessibility in comics. Reposting to my site for posterity. Thank you again for attending our March program, “Adapting Comics for Blind & Low Vision Readers”! ...
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capjamesg
[Joe_Crawford]++
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Loqi
[Joe_Crawford] has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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Loqi
capjamesg: [chrisaldrich] left you a message on 2021-09-30 at 6:10am UTC: in case you didn't get a mention from it: https://memex.marginalia.nu/projects/edge/about.gmi re: indie search projects
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[tantek]
comics << 2021-12-06 [https://artlung.com/blog/2021/12/06/seminar-comics-a11y/ Adapting Comics for Blind & Low Vision Readers: Seminar Resources]
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Loqi
ok, I added "2021-12-06 [https://artlung.com/blog/2021/12/06/seminar-comics-a11y/ Adapting Comics for Blind & Low Vision Readers: Seminar Resources]" to the "See Also" section of /comics https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78177&oldid=78176
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[tantek]
comics << 2021-03-21 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ94byTwat0 ▶ Adapting Comics for Blind and Low Vision Readers: A Roundtable Discussion] (YouTube video, 88min)
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Loqi
ok, I added "2021-03-21 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ94byTwat0 ▶ Adapting Comics for Blind and Low Vision Readers: A Roundtable Discussion] (YouTube video, 88min)" to the "See Also" section of /comics https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78178&oldid=78177
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[chrisaldrich]
snarfed, I've been watching some of the material Gyuri is working on and it's IndieWeb adjacent, but he has a word salad soup of jargon that makes it *incredibly* difficult to follow what he's doing. I suspect English is not his first language which adds an additional barrier. I've not directly seen an example of his IndieHub system or what it does, only descriptions. He has been to a few online IWC events in the past and perhaps
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[chrisaldrich]
he'd provide a demo of it one day.
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[chrisaldrich]
On the other hand, Flancian is doing some amazing work at interconnecting personal wikis and online notebooks. To some extent, one might say that he's building a hub (or you may prefer bridge) to interconnect wikis. If you connect to his system (he's more than happy to help), the Agora (aka anagora.org) will pull in your data and add it to the shared pile of communal data relating to a particular [[wikilink]] so you can quickly see
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[chrisaldrich]
what information other members of the network have on those topics.
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[chrisaldrich]
The Agora is essentially a wiki of wikis into which you can see the content that cross links one person's wiki to another's. The UI is a bit unwieldy, but if you've got this overview of what it's doing, it's easier to grok. As an example if you and I both had wikis connected to the system, you could visit https://anagora.org/indieweb to see what we both (and others) had written about the topic.
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[chrisaldrich]
For context, in ancient Greece an "agora" was a public open space used for assemblies and markets, in this case an open digital marketplace of information.
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[chrisaldrich]
It's primarily text and [[wikilink]] based rather than using the IndieWeb's permalink or tags as a basis. I know that he's been able to pull in doubleloop's WordPress-based digital garden into the system for example. Most of the other users in that network have text (or .md) files from Logseq, Obsidian, etc. which are synced to public Github sources to power the system.
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[chrisaldrich]
Perhaps he can overcome the text/URL barrier and improve the UI for people just coming into the system?
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[tantek]
"distributed knowledge graph" sounds a bit Xanadu-like so it's going to have be more specific to explain what a "wiki of wikis" does that's beyond a "web page of web pages"
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[chrisaldrich]
From an IndieWeb perspective, it would be nice if I could, for example, write updates on my own wiki/website about an IndieWeb topic, and have those automatically appear on the IndieWeb's wiki. In the Agora's case it's doing this but it doesn't have a top-level topic the way the IndieWeb wiki does. It's organized only around the people that choose to be a part of it. I'm not sure how far this may (easily) scale but for small
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[chrisaldrich]
networks of interconnected people it would be a useful search/discovery tool.
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[chrisaldrich]
In any case, it's an example of interconnected and interoperable softwares that exists in the world and is very IndieWeb in principle.
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capjamesg[d]
There is a page on the wiki about syndicating to the wiki.
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capjamesg[d]
I can’t remember what it is called though.
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sknebel[m]
test, please ignore
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[chrisaldrich]
I think Angelo has built something to POSSE to the wiki, but he's the only one?
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sknebel
I played with it a bit, but don't think I ever used it
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sknebel
well, I guess Kaja is technically "syndicating to the wiki", just from events.indieweb.org and not from my site ;)
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[chrisaldrich]
I've got something that will let me do PESOS from the wiki to my site, but most of it is saved privately on my back end as I haven't figured out a great way of doing display.
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capjamesg[d]
Display is a bit of an issue.
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capjamesg[d]
I’d also look for a clear version indicator so I know that what is on your site may no longer reflect the living wiki page.
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capjamesg[d]
(Not a full history, just a clear time stamp, etc.)
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capjamesg[d]
That is true. Kaja++
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Loqi
Kaja has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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[chrisaldrich]
Flancian has both a twitter bot https://twitter.com/an_agora and a Mastodon bot (I can't recall the account) which will allow one to tweet data into the Agora via syndication. It also responds with links to Agora pages that are mentioned in tweets using wikilinks (if you're following it).
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[chrisaldrich]
the Mastodon bot is at @agora@botsin.space
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zblesk[m]
I've read the convo of the past few days and darn, that Loqi bot is nice.
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zblesk[m]
Is there some list of what it can do?
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[KevinMarks]
“it would be nice if I could, for example, write updates on my own wiki/website about an IndieWeb topic, and have those automatically appear on the IndieWeb's wiki.” this sounds like the exact webmention use case
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[tantek]
maybe? like for /edit posts?