#indieweb 2022-02-17
2022-02-17 UTC
[snarfed]1, [James_Van_Dyne], [metbril], [tw2113_Slack_]1, robo, [aciccarello] and [manton] joined the channel
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "How to Consume Microformats 2 Data" https://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/consuming-microformats/
[metbril], [aciccarello], [manton], [tw2113_Slack_], Oclair, [manton]1, [aciccarello]2, [tw2113_Slack_]2, robo1, [metbril]1, tbbrown, Nuve, _inky, jacky, KartikPrabhu, justGhost, marksuth[d], maxwelljoslyn[d], angelo, n8chz and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
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[chrisaldrich] What are twin pages?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "twin pages" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "twin pages is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jeremycherfas Good morning IndieWeb
schmudde, _inky, tetov-irc, KartikPrabhu, frenzcan, n8chz, [tonz], Moosadee, n8chz1, jacky, grantcodes[d], kimberlyhirsh[d], tbbrown, tbbrown_, barnaby, selectric, antrdnv[d], jbove, peterrother, [chrisaldrich] and [Adnan_Onart] joined the channel
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[Adnan_Onart] Dear IndieWEB community, I am a retired philosopher with itches in poetry and photography. I like to leave behind an independent web presence for my family and friends to keep their access to my short essays, notes on my photography, and poems. I write in my native Turkish and English. I am not a developer, but not shy of web technology. Previously I got some guidance from CHRIS ALDRICH, not to burden him directly, I like to ask f
# [Adnan_Onart] some suggestions from the INDIEWEB community at large.
# [Adnan_Onart] Here are my initial questions:
# [Adnan_Onart] Is it better to have one WEB site in two languages or two sites in a different language each?
# [Adnan_Onart] I decided to use WORDPRESS as the foundation for my WEB presence. I am looking for a hosting solution that would persist beyond my life span. As a pragmatic solution, I was considering free accounts on Wordpress.com assuming that non-paid WEB sites my stay around beyond subscriptions. Any recommendation on this matter?
# [chrisaldrich] What is longevity?
# Loqi Longevity is the goal of keeping your data as future-friendly and future-proof as possible; it is one of the indieweb principles https://indieweb.org/longevity
# jan6 wordpress definitely won't last beyond your life
# jan6 it needs to be kept up to date constantly, due to being very popular with hackers 'n stuff
# jan6 and the wordpress.com account might well get deactivated due to inactivity
# jan6 or someone could attempt to take it down, and if you're not there to defend it, it might default-win for them, since obviously wordpress people don't have time to thoroughly look through every claim, themselves
# jan6 wordpress CAN last, but ideally you'd use a static site generator, plain html never breaks
# jan6 sure, even breathing air has a risk
# jan6 just the more dynamic your page is, and more moving parts, the riskier it is
# jan6 I've seen quite a lot of broken wordpress sites
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# [James_Van_Dyne] If you’re looking for longevity, I’d want something like a static site on S3 and $500 for usage. Would want a separate amount to handle domain registration fees
# jan6 depends what your domain requirements are, you can get all-numbers .xyz domain for literally $1/yr, officially, without any special discounts, for example
# [schmarty]1 archival copies of a static site could also be stored and shared on USB keys or hard drives.
# [James_Van_Dyne] Yeah - I think the largest barrier would just be making payments, because most of these instruments require you to be alive (credit cards, bank accounts) to continue using them (makes sense, don’t want to rack of a credit card from the other side)
# jan6 also, there's stuff like IPFS, and git repos, which are a little bit technical to deal with, but help in the sense that other people can easily copy your site, and not let it die
# jan6 archive.org and archive.is and other such places are also great at archiving
# jan6 trust is nigh impossible to guarantee, when the person's dead
# jan6 and also cryptography evolves constantly, and old ciphers and protocols become insecure in the future
# jan6 I don't know, are you?
# jan6 I'm not
# jan6 memories are one thing
# jan6 verifiable proofs are another
# jan6 people remember most things incorrectly, and fuzzily, memories are lossy, and warp over time, especially with suggestions and later opinions, something in small ways, sometimes in major ways
# jan6 there's always the problem of "but technically"
# jan6 it kinda depends how much of a tradeoff do you want to make, I guess
# jan6 I guess
# jan6 in any case, I'd host backup copies
# jan6 even if one site is "main site", should probably still have a known place for backup copies, when the main site goes down, is blocked, or something else
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ I believe requesting a younger member of family as digital trustee is an option
# jan6 and @ language question, I'd just use different URLs, like https://example.com/en/poems/hello_world vs https://example.com/ee/poeemid/tere_maailm etc
# jan6 pretty common approach
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ that sounds doable - thank you!
# jan6 @younger member, there comes the problem of do you trust them to not later on start to hate you, or disagree with you, and as such, modify, or destroy, your works
# jan6 also fun fact: nowdays it's VERY easy to physically print your own custom books ;P
# jan6 or print, at all
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ yes life is complicated, after-life even more so, I suppose. In any case, thank you for all the suggestions so far.
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ yes, printing books or preparing printable pdf books is a good idea too
# jan6 everything is complicated, sorry for confusing you ;)
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ No problem: confusion might be the first step towards clarity. Thank you again.
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# jan6 printed versions are great backup in case you don't have thorough enough digital backups, and also as a much harder to fake without traces, so good for verifications, also, but ultimately all of civilization is based on trust, money is trust in paper and metal having value because government said so, owning land is just promises, etc etc
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[KevinMarks] the question on multilingual is if you expect your audience to be able to read both languages too - the strict separation by language model is based on google trying to keep language monoglot and neat
# [KevinMarks] Someone who does blog in two languages (usually one per post) is Stephanie Booth https://climbtothestars.org/
# jan6 if you expect people to read both languages, then you don't NEED to keep them separate, but imho, it's still nicer to keep them somewhat separate, just because often people are looking for one type of thing at a time, and would need to go scrolling through, skipping the other language, or at the least, having to mentally switch to that other language, which might just be annoying, even if not
# jan6 hard
# [KevinMarks] she wrote a wordpress plugin to help with this, that lets you add a summary in the other language to the posts
# jan6 I don't see a summary, there
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ some people can read in both languages, some cannot… I was thinking using tags to mark the language of the post as a possibility
# jan6 the posts are tagged, on stephanie's pages
# jan6 but I don't see that "summary" you talk about
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ Most useful — thank you.
# jan6 and yeah, tagging with language, is probably also useful, although i'd still recommend keeping the URLs separate too
# jan6 oh hey, what do you know: https://wordpress.com/go/content-blogging/a-short-guide-to-multilingual-blogging/
# jan6 the approaches they talk about there are basically "same post, with separators, and links up top to skip to preferred language", vs "separate posts, with links between, and categories for languages"
# jan6 both of which are assuming you're just translating, and not that you have different content for each
# [KevinMarks] here's one that has it https://climbtothestars.org/archives/2021/12/30/quand-toute-une-vie-prend-sens-les-pieces-du-puzzle-qui-manquaient/ - that's the thing, it is extra work to write the summaries
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# jan6 that's definitely another thing, sure
# jan6 there's a lot of cool stuff that can be done, but it's always extra effort
# jan6 of course that's from 2014
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ Not that it is that important, but I write separately certain things in one language, others in another. I don’t try to translate that much. The audiences with their cultural and semantic backgrounds are different.
# jan6 because most all the cool stuff happened on, or before, 2013/14 and usually died after ;P
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ I believe deeper translations happen only when taking into account socio-cultural contexts which may be difficult to do mechanically.
# jan6 depends a bit
# jan6 but kinda, yes, which is why PROPER translations often take a long time, because you have to re-word stuff, to be understood correctly, and other stuff
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ There are things we can assume within a culture and talk about implicitly whereas within another we may it to express such things explicitly. This makes machine translation difficult in particular for literary texts.
# jan6 not to mention concepts and things that are simply not present in one of the cultures
# [Adnan_Onart] ↩️ I am new to your community and the indieweb although I prescribed to its principles without being familiar with it. I thank you for all the replies and suggestions. I’ll keep my focus on creating the content. I hope I find practical solutions to format, protocols and hosting. Thank you again.
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# jan6 I'm new here too, tbh
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# jan6 I don't really have any CONTENT sadly, although I do like to make stuff, including text art, designing websites and tools that end up not getting used, because no content, etc, lol
# e-snail glad I'm not the only one
# jan6 like here's one text-arty newspaper mockup: https://jan6.ttm.sh/fellow.html never got a single proper issue, here's a cool website design: https://jan6.ttm.sh/rwrs/ but never got any content to put on there, etc
# jan6 the former is also available as a .txt, it's html just so it's displayed properly in browser, and the latter has a little one-line command to stip all the minimal markup, so it can be curl-ed directly to terminal
# e-snail jan6: I enjoy both of those things, and I think that counts as "content"
# jan6 I also like both, and both of them came about just messing around, but like, it's not enough by itself, imho, and I don't really have anything else that counts for anything, imho, other than maybe some shell scripts or stuff
# e-snail if this is the kind of thing you like doing, that's the shape your content takes
# e-snail a "throwaway" website design is just as much "content" as someone posting throwaway post-it note sketches
# jan6 and also some text art of my IRC-friends nicknames, lol, I could do yours too if you want ;P
# jan6 these ones are pure ascii, without any fancy block characters or such, and kiiinda personalized per personality
# e-snail feel free
# e-snail don't sell yourself short on "content production"
# e-snail this kind of stuff that doesn't fit into the blog post/note/reply box is my favourite suff to discover on the web
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# jan6 https://0x0.st/o8J9.txt
# jan6 if I was to use unicode, could prolly make it a lot better, lol
# jan6 not too satisfied with the final L, for example
# jan6 e-snail: ^
# e-snail nice! thanks, jan6!
# jan6 that was just a quick throw-together without knowing basically anything about you, and using only ascii, without fancy unicode, anyway