#indieweb 2023-01-03

2023-01-03 UTC
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[snarfed] Challenge accepted
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[snarfed] "Should I show some visible icon or link on my posts to indicate that they're available in Mastodon etc? How? Should it work similarly to corresponding links to tweets and silo posts? But there's no direct link to use. Also, should readers be able to use it to respond on Mastodon etc? How would that work?"
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[snarfed] (rhetorical, we likely already have the answer(s), above)
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starrwulfe[m] “Have something to say? Add your thoughts by <Fediverse> or <from your blog”>
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starrwulfe[m] Where you’d press the appropriate button and get either a respond from your instance or a permalink and a space to indieauth into your blog and post a reply
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starrwulfe[m] …just some initial thoughts…
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starrwulfe[m] Think how Disqus gets around the whole multi SSO via SNS site issues right in the comment text box. Something like that would work but it defeats the minimalistic appeal and aesthetics of IW to me
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[snarfed] starrwulfe definitely check out https://indieweb.org/webactions and related history
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starrwulfe[m] * Ok
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GWG I'd love to see what we could do with Webactions.
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[timothy_chambe] The CEO and there staff of Medium.com just created a #Mastodon instance medium.social where they just migrated to, and appear to be considering Medium.com supporting ActivityPub federation:
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[timothy_chambe] https://indieweb.social/@mathowie@xoxo.zone/109621786985432221
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Loqi [preview] [Matt Haughey 🦣] @buster whoa, Medium launched a mastodon instance? Is it for employees only or can any paid Medium member use it too?
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[KevinMarks] Did we have some medium interop issues?
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[Tim_Nolte] Hmm, interesting that Medium is even considering this when they are already a walled garden of content. The fact that with a free account you only get 2 free views of the "member-only" content. I guess not all of their content is member-only but I get real turned off when blog posts are blocked by some pay wall.
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[snarfed] There was never much interop to begin with
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[KevinMarks] We hsve a medium pm asking for how to do it well - I know we had some bridging on some versions of medium
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[KevinMarks] See also https://medium.social/@coachtony/109621836484733917
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Loqi [preview] [Tony Stubblebine] @jeffjarvis @mathowie @buster Re: Medium.com having ActivityPub. I'm still confused by the actual user experience here. This was a pretty good discussion about it: https://mas.to/@coachtony/109552518553448488
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[snarfed] Yup we have, eg https://brid.gy/about#blogs
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] please send Tony to /friendly
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[tantek] We have step by step guides for this
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[tantek] does anyone have a specific strategy or preference for what order they reply to replies to their posts?
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[tantek] e.g. I'm considering:
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[tantek] 1 reply to direct indieweb-replies
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[tantek] 2 reply to mastodon/AP-replies
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[tantek] 3 reply to replies to the POSSE tweet
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aaronpk I don't think about it that much, and I reply to whatever whenever I find it and am motivated
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[tantek] I mean like if you step away for a day or two, and come back to a bunch of replies, what then
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[tantek] or you like to batch your replying rather than context-switching every time someone new replies
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[tantek] can you reply to someone's boost and have the reply show up threaded under their boost but not the original?
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[KevinMarks] Potentially you can if the federation between instances is set up that way, but unlikely if its your own post that is boosted.
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[KevinMarks] This is very good, and I like the diagram too https://maggieappleton.com/ai-dark-forest
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> This is an interesting point:
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492>
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> > Humans who want to engage in informal, unoptimised, personal interactions have to hide in closed spaces like invite-only Slack channels, Discord groups, email newsletters, small-scale blogs, and digital gardens.
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petermolnar "have to hide" not the correct choice of words. If I were to have friends over for a chat, I'd do it at a small environment and not on Oxford Street in London.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I agree with your analysis on the word choice. The sentiment is more resonant to me.
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[KevinMarks] Well, yes, though Oxford Street is well supplied with venues that provide a choice of small environments to do that in (or was, it is mostly weird money laundering sweet shops now, but there are pubs and cafes nearby)
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petermolnar I meant the literal street
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> [tantek] This article feels like something we should link somewhere: https://manuelmoreale.com/on-the-current-decentralisation-movement
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> > Want to also have discussions? Add comments to your website. Don't care about other people's opinions? Don't add comments to your site. I honestly don't get why people are searching for some new technical solution to a problem that in my opinion doesn't exists. Maybe I'm just too dumb to even realise what the problem is. That's certainly a possibility.
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petermolnar > I honestly don't get why people are searching for some new technical solution to a problem that in my opinion doesn't exists
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petermolnar That goes much, much further, than websites. Kubernetes is the most overengineered madness I've seen in my life, especially with kube-proxy that essentially ignores IP addresses, because why not ( https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/issues/10921#issuecomment-509013360 ) so we're definitely looking for "solutions" that tends to complicate a lot of things with questionable benefits or results.
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Loqi [preview] [smekkley] For anyone who finds here. This issue is not solved, type: ClusterIP stays incompatible with keeping the source IP address. Workarounds are using providers such as GKE and use type: Loadbalancer. Another workaround is to use MetalLB and use externa...
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jeremycherfas Is that what those huge sweetie shops are [KevinMarks]? I've never been able to understand their existence.
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[KevinMarks] Apparently they bought up leases during covid and have been several kinds of dodgy https://www.timeout.com/london/news/one-third-of-the-oxford-street-candy-shops-disappear-after-police-raids-111622
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jeremycherfas -> chat
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[KevinMarks] I was having a mastodon discussion about this today too https://xoxo.zone/@KevinMarks/109625598573369850
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Loqi [preview] [Kevin Marks] @Julien51 @blaine @ChrisBoese @jeffjarvis @coachtony @mathowie @buster This is where my old-fashioned HTML as document format fandom kicks in. Its under attack on two fronts: 1) re-encoding documents in 'simpler' formats that strip out a lot of form...
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[KevinMarks] Today in outreach https://startafuckingblog.com/
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jeremycherfas Pity it isn't mf2-ready
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barnaby it’s on GH, so mf2 support should be a matter of sending a PR
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Loqi jeremycherfas, barnaby: I don't mean to be a bother, but mf2 seems like a better conversation for #indieweb-dev
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jeremycherfas But doesn't Kevin Quirk have form here?
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starrwulfe[m] OT question:
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starrwulfe[m] Is there an xmpp bridge for #indieweb?
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starrwulfe[m] …or telegram? I don’t know all the different ways to get here
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barnaby these are all the current bridges to chat: https://indieweb.org/discuss#Join_Discussions
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barnaby I think we used to have an xmpp bridge but it’s not longer working, afaik we’ve never had a telegram bridge
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Loqi friendly reminder starrwulfe[m], barnaby, can you move the tech talk (XMPP) to #indieweb-dev to keep this channel more inclusive and inviting?
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barnaby it’s more suitable for -meta honestly
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starrwulfe[m] Thanks barnaby — I’m engrossed in other chats across all these spaces and it gets a bit confusing
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barnaby understandable, the chat space is extremely fragmented at the moment!
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[Rose] Are there any events being planned yet for this year? 😄
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barnaby not as far as I know, other than the regular homebrew website clubs and a popup, but there has been some chatter about bringing back more in-person events
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barnaby you can always check https://events.indieweb.org/ for planned events, and https://indieweb.org/Planning for potential events
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[snarfed] wow, I just learned that Mastodon search doesn't even fully search the local instance. it only searches hashtags, users, and your own posts. evidently by design, to prevent harassment. news to me. https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/network/#search
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gRegor [Rose], barnaby, I just started https://indieweb.org/2023/Pop-ups, and we can review https://indieweb.org/2022/Pop-ups/Sessions to move forward proposed events that didn't happen last year
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barnaby gRegor++
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Loqi gRegor has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (74 in all channels)
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[Rose] [snarfed] I'm helping run a Mastodon instance, I think most of the internal discussions about it have been "Wow, I can't believe it doesn't..." 😞
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[chrisaldrich] darius++ for the latest update to Hometown https://friend.camp/@darius/109623189653393791. Apparently it's now much easier to replace an old Mastodon instance with Hometown which has local only posting, a feature that may be useful for those maintaining a site for small groups of friends and family.
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[snarfed] this is at least a deliberate design decision, which makes a lot of sense. opt in search (via hashtag) is an interesting idea!
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Loqi [preview] [Darius Kazemi] Also this means that everyone on a brand new post-Nov-1 server that runs Mastodon 4.0.2 has the option to move to Hometown for their software and get that sweet local-only posting and more :)https://github.com/hometown-fork/hometown/wiki/Or, uh, at l...
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GWG [Rose]: Long time no type!
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[chrisaldrich] Does anyone have a list of Mastodon forks that add/remove functionality? Darius' is one of the few that is making some interesting and deliberate design choices and frequently pushing them back to the main Mastodon instance. Local only posting and the ability to go over 500 characters are interesting directions for experimentation.
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[snarfed] counter.social is another well known one
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[chrisaldrich] One of the other useful changes Darius has made is a warning on posts that have no alt text on images/videos for encouraging better accessibility.
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[chrisaldrich] iirc https://microblog.pub/ is another that is adding some additional IndieWeb building blocks including Webmention.
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Loqi [preview] @dev@microblog.pub
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sknebel not a fork though
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[Rose] @GWG: Yes! I've been rather swapped!
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[Rose] *Swamped even
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[Rose] But I am hoping to make it to a load of events this year.
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[chrisaldrich] What is a reading challenge?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "reading challenge" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "reading challenge is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel hi [Rose], nice seeing you around again :)
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[Rose] You too 😄
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[chrisaldrich] Something very IndieWebby about this headline "Mastodon Brought a Protocol to a Product Fight", which to me is the most valuable part of the entire piece. https://500ish.com/mastodon-brought-a-protocol-to-a-product-fight-ba9fda767c6a
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[Rose] Siegler has some good stuff at times!
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GWG [Rose]: I hope to see or read more of you then.
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sknebel although the focus on Mastodon (the individual project/product) vs the protocol (and all the different projects supporting it) doesnt quite work with that?
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sknebel (maybe its addressed in the article)
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[KevinMarks] https://xoxo.zone/@KevinMarks/109593317149127384
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Loqi [preview] [Kevin Marks] seems like @mgsiegler brought a VC fight mindset to a protocol consensus. https://500ish.com/mastodon-brought-a-protocol-to-a-product-fight-ba9fda767c6a Sorry, you don't get to be the Karen here and demand to speak to Mastodon's manager.
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[snarfed] 🔥
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I think this disregards what could be.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Mastodon has a few years of history but their product is surely by no means done.
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[chrisaldrich] That's an interesting framing as well [KevinMarks], but with respect to eating what you cook, I feel like Mastodon et al. are nudging folks into sous vide and molecular gastronomy in large commercial kitchens instead of starting with beans, rice, and simpler grains.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I agree that there is a high barrier for entry. I’m still not on Mastodon properly, or at least I technically am but I have not gotten around to figuring out how my accounts work.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I’d rather ask “what can we do to make a solution better” than to say it is not going to be competitive.
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[chrisaldrich] As we all know #ItsComplicated
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[Rose] Thanks @GWG, same here.
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[tantek] capjamesg, there is no need to be "on Mastodon properly". Just use Bridgy Fed with your existing IndieWeb presence.
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[tantek] Welcome back [Rose]++
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Loqi [Rose] has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] what is microblog.pub
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Loqi microblog.pub is a self-hosted, single-user, ActivityPub powered microblog https://indieweb.org/microblog.pub
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] !tell [chrisaldrich] could you share links/citations for them "adding some additional IndieWeb building blocks including Webmention" ?
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] the replies to your toot about VC mindset 💀
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gRegor The main documentation page linked in the dfn mentions the jargon term I will avoid (👀 Loqi) https://docs.microblog.pub/
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[tantek] the-term-that-must-not-be-named 😆
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[tantek] microblog.pub << Main documentation: https://docs.microblog.pub/
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Loqi ok, I added "Main documentation: https://docs.microblog.pub/" to the "See Also" section of /microblog.pub https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=85630&oldid=82187
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gRegor That's the link in the dfn haha
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[tantek] huh not what I would have expected which is just the plain domain, not subdomain
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[0x3b0b] Yeah, kind of an interesting choice in my opinion to have the bare domain be a release/announcement stream running on the software itself. There's some code in the project having to do with initial support for arbitrary pages and including links to them in the nav menu; I wonder whether that's what's behind the docs.
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[tantek] use what you make << Software example: [[microblog.pub]]’s home page is running the software itself.
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Loqi ok, I added "Software example: [[microblog.pub]]’s home page is running the software itself." to the "See Also" section of /use_what_you_make https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=85637&oldid=85402