#indieweb 2023-04-10

2023-04-10 UTC
[manton], ren, Soni, n8chz, rory1, rvalue, jarkad, btrem, angelo, BDFOC, gxt__, ^ilhalmer and laker joined the channel
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[snarfed] huh, Instagram suspended my account. I'm guessing because of the instagram-atom/Bridgy browser extensions. probably the former
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[snarfed] I may need to shut that down if it's this dangerous
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capjamesg :(
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aaronpk i mean, i'm 99% sure that's why my account got shut down too
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[snarfed] Yeah I am too 😐
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Private Comments, or Why I’m Down On Webmentions" https://havenweb.org/2023/04/10/private-comments.html
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bkil On what basis could they justify your suspension due to a client side browser extension? That doesn't sound fair. And also makes me wonder whether I should pursue my general bridging browser extension as well.
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[snarfed] they don't allow crawling, bots, etc
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[snarfed] "fair" would ideally be nice but in practice isn't really relevant
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bkil As I don't use it, I haven't used their terms of service, but a bot is usually understood to imply an automated agent not acting on behalf of interactive user actions. Does this case stand here?
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bkil Crawling usually also implies a subtype of bot, one that fetches a large number of pages in a much faster rate than the human operating the computer is expected to be reading it.
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bkil If I made an interactive client side Instagram interface to work around its annoyances, I don't think that any of these provisions would apply to me.
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[snarfed] I definitely sympathize with the desire to engineer their rules and prove they're wrong, but it won't matter. they choose what they want, then write/change the rules to enforce that
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[snarfed] if they want something, and the rules don't exactly match what they want, they'll change (or ignore) the rules and still enforce what they want
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[snarfed] which, again, may not feel "fair," but definitely is their prerogative
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[snarfed] ^ this is why scraping has always been a david vs goliath arms race, and in the long term pretty much always losing one for small communities like us
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[snarfed] it only really works as long as we're below their radar and they don't notice us, or they notice but don't care
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[tantek] [snarfed]++
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Loqi [snarfed] has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (136 in all channels)
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[schmarty] snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 35 karma in this channel over the last year (137 in all channels)
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[tantek] Beware anyone using Twitter circles (for those still using Twitter UI) https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1645468617394331649
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@IanColdwater I made a Twitter Circle with one person in it and posted this tweet for science. This was the result. Two people I don't follow saw the tweet & liked it. One of those people doesn't follow me either. Twitter Circles aren't private. Don't post anything you want private in them. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtXg-5xX0AAMMcw.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1645468617394331649)
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I learned recently that Substack supports subscribing to RSS feeds in their reader.
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[campegg] capjamesg, yeah, I recently found out about that, too… it's pretty great that they (at least for now) support RSS. Not sure what you mean by "their reader", though—I'm using it with Feedbin/Reeder and it works just fine
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[KevinMarks] Implicit indieweb message here https://bnet.substack.com/p/in-a-way-this-is-how-it-should-be
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[campegg] capjamesg — wait, I think I might have mis-read your message. Do you mean you can subscribe to feeds from outside of Substack in their reader? If so, that's pretty neat! I was talking about subscribing to Substack newsletters via RSS (as in, you can drop a Substack newsletter URL in your feed reader and subscribe that way, rather than via email)
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Yes.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> That’s what I mean.
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[campegg] That's kinda cool
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[snarfed] https://on.substack.com/p/new-web-reader
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[KevinMarks] I wonder if we can evangelise them on an indieweb friendly social reader, as they're building a notes platform too
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[campegg] [KevinMarks] looks like they're kinda heading in that direction, since it's possible 'leave a like' using their reader already (although I'm guessing that's just for Substack posts, but it's conceptually along the same lines)
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[KevinMarks] So they might like webmention integration too
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Perhaps so!
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I don’t know what that like button does 🤣
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Maybe it’s a bookmark-esque feature right now?
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[snarfed] their bookmarks ("saves") are separate. looks like it's just a standard silo like button. you can use it to like arbitrary posts from external feeds, but I doubt that does anything beyond storing the like internally inside substack
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndiePass Update - April 2023" https://marksuth.dev/posts/2023/04/indiepass-update-april-2023
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capjamesg [marksuth]++
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Loqi [marksuth] has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (14 in all channels)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Re: Private Comments, or Why I’m Down On Webmentions" https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/chatter/4644-Re-Private-Comments-or-Why-Im-Down-On-Webmentions
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[tantek] heh
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[snarfed] hit a milestone just now, my first post after Twitter killed Bridgy's backfeed. not sure if I'll post it to Twitter at all
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[snarfed] similar to aaronpk
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aaronpk RIP twitter
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[snarfed] hid the twitter rel-me link on my site
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aaronpk oof. i don't think i'm quite there yet. but we will see
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[tantek] Do we have anything about what to do about impersonation on the indieweb?
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aaronpk what is impersonation?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "impersonation" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "impersonation is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk guess not :)
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[tantek] Eg here's a silo example: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cqy7NnwPgt0/
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[tantek] Have we had two different domains claiming to be the same person? Eg one stealing content from the other?
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aaronpk i've seen that for websites for apps, trying to get someone to download a fake version of an app
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[tantek] Somewhat related to the #indieweb-dev identity conversation (though I'm trying to keep it at a high level / user-focused here, no proto calls)
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aaronpk the motivation there is to get them to install malware
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[tantek] Oh yeah that's definitely a thing both for apps and browser add-ons eg chatgpt
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aaronpk i'm sure it's happened for a person's website too, but there are fewer incentives for impersonating someone's website than impersonating a silo account that can actually send DMs to people
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[tantek] Ergo as soon as there's a standard way to send DMs to a website, there will be more incentive to impersonate
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aaronpk yup
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[tantek] This is sorta related to /zombie sites which do impersonate the prior site
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[tantek] Special case of impersonation
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