#indieweb 2023-05-15
2023-05-15 UTC
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petermolnar r similar minded people, see invitations, but how do you foresee the known large social media issue not to manifest and kill it like it did basically anything?
# petermolnar to all the bsky enthusiasts, I have a question/gentle request: please write a piece on why do you think it matters. I keep hearing "it's like old twitter" - that means nothing to those who weren't there. I have an account from 2009 and I have zero idea what people mean when they say this. According to numbers it's about the size of a medium-large mastodon instance, and at that point it's not that hard to make it work or even make it fo
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capjamesg [campegg] Did you take this photo: https://campegg.com/photos/20160102125401
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Loqi [preview] Tom's Restaurant https://campegg.com/media/photos/20160102125401.jpg
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BekoPharm[m] sounds like the local or federated timeline of an average Mastodon server 🤷
# petermolnar ^ this
# petermolnar or the new feed on HN
# petermolnar without the good night part
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[KevinMarks] It's like twitter in 2007 or Mastodon in 2017 - the feeling of being in the early days of a better social web, where the trolls haven't taken over, it hasn't been enshittified and there is still some kind of shared culture. This is partly an illusion of it still being small and invite only, partly the hope of keeping that culture, earnestly expressed by the queer, trans, black and activist folk who make up a big chunk of the userbase
# [KevinMarks] and the frequent posters.
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rubenwardy Can you block users yet? Moderation is the core feature of a social network, without it it's only a matter of time before it enshittifies
# [KevinMarks] yes, they have blocks and mutes, and shared mute lists. The issue now is actual banning of nazi entryists
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# [snarfed] petermolnar: https://snarfed.org/2023-05-04_50157
# rubenwardy account portability? are there any other bluesky instances?
# petermolnar so practically fediverse is matrix, AT is XMPP, got it.
# rubenwardy not sure what the point of this channel is when even mentioning tech redirects you to -dev
# petermolnar heh, I've been asking that for a while rubenwardy
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[tantek] rubenwardy, the point of this channel is actually using your indieweb site (and why, how, etc), not being distracted by plumbing, especially chat about other people's plumbing https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb
# rubenwardy Not really talking about the plumbing though, talking about federation and the state of bluesky
# rubenwardy Maybe the request was preemptive as it could have ended in that direction
# rubenwardy RSS
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# petermolnar It would be interesting to see some infographics on how tech talk slowly slips into non tech talk. The internet was tech talk at one point.
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# [capjamesg] [ender] I thought you may like this: https://maxbittker.github.io/Hand-Held-ITP-2021/
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# bkil petermolnar++ for saying out loud what everyone was thinking all along but were too afraid to ask.
# bkil Similarly, Facebook also had a point were only the most entrepreneur, the most adventurous, most "interesting" people inhabited it and while it was not seen valuable to the eyes of abusers.
# bkil And also: you don't solve social problems with technical measure, neither can you sell a product well using only its technical specification or via obscure internal details that don't matter much to 99.9% of people anyway.
# bkil Better Fediverse servers already had server-assisted account migration support of good actors since decades (Friendica, Hubzilla, maybe others). Adding account migration support for bad actors who don't cooperate with servers (or at least people considered at least edgy by quite a proportion of the local community) is indeed an innovation, but begs the question whether it will change the world for the better or the worse.
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> ++ re selling a product based on a technical spec. That’s an important lesson.
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> With that said, I’d be curious why people are signing up to BlueSky. What is bringing prominent politicians to the platform, journalists (who aren’t writing about BlueSky as a trend), entrepreneurs?
# bkil [snarfed]: No, not everything, because there was no demand for it, only your identity and contacts. But we could probably make that happen "somewhat" up to reason. It will never work as good as a torrent-based system, but then the I find demand for such is pretty low. Do many request this in your circles?
# bkil I mean, identity as migrating over your following and updating all your followers automatically. You will surely have to update your domain on your business card or on your personal website and wherever you type it manually. Then again, having your unique, portable identity written on your business card as a 80 character hex string isn't going to win you much business...
# bkil I don't use Mastodon other than for light testing. Is Mastodon's account migration up to the capability of Friendica by today?
# [snarfed] Bluesky decouples many things from your current server, beyond just identity; that's a key philosophy difference between it and the fediverse. https://snarfed.org/2023-05-04_50157
# [snarfed] Ben's interpretation of this as American vs European is interesting: https://werd.io/2023/the-fediverse-and-the-at-protocol
# bkil Would be. Unfortunately, I've chosen to ignore BS and any links related to it for the next couple of years. I've been monitoring similar efforts from the last few decades and keep them in a spreadsheet and save myself a ton of time that I don't have to dig deeper about ones that eventually go defunct.
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# benpate[m] <[snarfed]> "Indieweb is closer to Bluesky on..." <- Hey [snarfed] - is there a standard format form import/export? It seems like that would be the starting point. I’d *love* to implement that if I knew where to begin.
# benpate[m] > <@[snarfed]:libera.chat> Indieweb is closer to Bluesky on that axis. we push on both domains and data export as ways to loosely couple and be less dependent on our current web hosts. and we value our individual sovereignty over moderating webmentions on our sites, individual control over our readers, etc
# benpate[m] * Hey [snarfed] - is there a standard format for import/export -ing website data? It seems like that would be the starting point. I’d love to implement that if I knew where to begin.
# Loqi blog archive format is a data format proposed by Manton Reece for the export of a blog, based on a zip file and top level HTML h-feed inside, that is supported by micro.blog https://indieweb.org/BAF
# benpate[m] Brilliant! Thanks guys 😎 Loqi giveth and Loqi taketh away.
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# bkil [snarfed]: Yes, I had learned about The Fediverse a few years after inception and kept it on the list until it became about 10 years old and only then did I put more effort into it. Call me 10 years after Bluesky had been publicly released. 😉 At the same time, I already have literally dozens of social networking projects that are similarly advertised as being "P2P" (however one defines it) and these usually just come & go. The idea itself goes way back before
# bkil The Fediverse, with some prototypes going back into the 90s. The better known earlier ones are maybe RetroShare and Freenet from 2000.
# bkil Might I suggest creating a separate channel dedicated to Bluesky even? It would really help in clearing my log.
# bkil aaronpk: Oh, I see what you did there 😉 Yeah, actually I have been lurking around and referring to the indieweb wiki for quite a few years now (maybe it had been indeed a decade?)
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