#indieweb 2023-05-16
2023-05-16 UTC
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[KevinMarks] So you've been supporting xfn for 10 years then?
# [KevinMarks] The OStatus stack supported 301 redirection for migration, but that does require cooperation from the site you're leaving.
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bkil Surely I'm "joking" with such a hard limit, but indeed I've seen too many getting burnt over the years by hopping onto the hype train of the given year (or month in the context of messengers!) and then losing face in front of their peers who they had eagerly dragged over. It feels like multi-level marketing, but even worse, as its advocates aren't limited by risking and losing all of their _money_ where they mouth is.
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petermolnar Retroshare has nothing to do with fediverse, but indeed it's nearly 20 years old. You're thinking of GNUSocial.
# petermolnar And given how the protocols changed it's quite a stretch to call the fediverse even a decade old, even if there's a continuation.
# petermolnar To be honest, neither of them (activitystreams or bsky) should be the buzz topic for indieweb, but sadly the initiatives to support indieweb protocols were shifted to support AS - and thus, fediverse - at many places due to the buzz, s I'm curious to see if they now shift to bsky, and keep going, never really releasing anything. (I'm looking at Wordpress, Tumblr, etc)
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# bkil petermolnar: The birthday of The Fediverse is 2008-07-02 (please add it to your calendar!) over the federation protocol called "OpenMicroBlogging". This was the date of the first running public deployment of the FOSS Laconica (to later become StatusNet and GNU Social over the years) also powering identi.ca, being federated by outside parties within 1 day of release. The second wave was started around 2010 by Diaspora and Friendica by the time millions of users
# bkil joined the network and as more and more interoperable and alternative servers and protocols started to develop openly and iteratively within the community (unlike BS). https://decafbad.com/blog/2008/07/03/getting-laconica-up-and-running/ http://scripting.com/stories/2008/07/03/federatingIdentica.html https://web.archive.org/web/20080829104401/openmicroblogging.org/
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# petermolnar I don't have the birth of FidoNet in my calendar either.
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# bkil The Indieweb seems like a logical continuation to The Fediverse to the edge. I.e., implementing the same thing in a more "artisan" and exploratory fashion. FidoNet was more about private communication and forums - it is not the same use case that we have with public publishing by individuals and retaining a permalink to it.
# bkil I'd probably group FidoNet to the same category where NNTP, mailing lists, XMPP MUC and Matrix rooms cat be placed.
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[tantek] Yes, just copied link text "IndieWeb" from my home page and pasted it into MacOS Notes app and it stayed linked (to http://indieweb.org), then copied that on iOS from Notes into a txt message and it expanded it in plain text to:
# [tantek] IndieWeb (https://indieweb.org/)
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# bkil [tantek]: Note that [IndieWeb] (https://indieweb.org/) and [IndieWeb](https://indieweb.org/) are almost the same syntax as above. Except without delimiters around the anchor text, a parser would have no chance to find _what_ the link refers to, hence the most conservative estimate would be to link the URL to the preceding word and that is less than optimal.
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[chrisbergr] I opted against "^" and I opt against "[]". The person reading should be disturbed with as few non-letters as possible. IndieWeb (https://indieweb.org/) looks great! I'm talking about the output, how ever you write this content is absolutely nonrelevant for the reader.
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capjamesg A columnist from The Guardian on Bluesky: So far, everything important about Bluesky is purely cultural. It’s a hip app with strong network effects among cool former Twitter users. But the service itself has bolder ambitions: it was, as I said, built to be a decentralised replacement for Twitter, and those goals still exist.
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# bkil Just so you handle all news items in place, I used to work for a few big companies in the past and they all had marketing arrangements that allowed them to publish content within reputable international news platforms & papers in a pseudorandom order (i.e., not copy & pasted among each other or repeatedly using the same one) in the form of reviews, tests, interviews, tech overview, stats, user submissions or seemingly organic daily news that all sound less like PR
# bkil articles and more like normal news items you read in the given paper. Surely this needs a lot of money, but this is a major source of keeping up the buzz. We also always had what we called "community managers" who infiltrated the biggest platforms with multiple accounts on multiple personalities, gained followers and participated in as many conversation as possible. In the case of such social app, rest assured that the most interesting looking or most hyped
# bkil accounts on BS are probably payed ones as well. Normal people just produce less palatable content by themselves and usually give up after a while so they are less reliable than professionals.
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# [Caleb_Hearth] Heresy incoming: I’m beginning to prefer drafting in wysiwyg editors over plaintext/markdown.
# [Caleb_Hearth] turns in developer card
# [chrisbergr] Oh that's a good point! I use markdown very little, so everytime I need to change some of my old content I need some extra time to get into it.
# [chrisbergr] *the point that the editor is also a reader by tantek
# [chrisbergr] Finally someone who understands me! 🙂
# [chrisbergr] Funfact: I still know most of the bb-code I ever used
# [tantek] Markdown << Criticism: if you need "extra time to get into it" when going back to editing something supposedly plaintext-based, it's a problem with the format, not you. https://chat.indieweb.org/2023-05-16/1684271388822300
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Loqi ok, I added "Criticism: if you need "extra time to get into it" when going back to editing something supposedly plaintext-based, it's a problem with the format, not you. https://chat.indieweb.org/2023-05-16/1684271388822300" to the "See Also" section of /markdown https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87835&oldid=87831
# bkil markdown++ because nobody has come up with a substitute with at least equivalent capabilities
# bkil By the way, I dislike how there complicated it is to parse, rather would see a "gemini 2.0" for my needs, but just wanted to add a reason for balancing this.
# bkil But we should move this discussion back to #indieweb-dev I think
# [chrisbergr] bkil: I don't know LaTeX in action, but I know Textile and that is pretty close imo
# petermolnar I'm the minority, I prefer a ^ compared to a full URL in my text, brackets or not. I use footnotes to store the URLs, especially because URLs can get long, and I'm happy with it.
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# bkil I adopt a gemini-inspired formatting to post every link on its own line and right after the sentence or short paragraph that references it.
# bkil No need for footnotes in this case, and this also allows for including a highlight cite or preview next to the link so people know what they would get before clicking on it.
# [chrisbergr] petermolnar I did not meant to be agains listing all the URLs in a footnote, the point was to get rid of the "^" in "linktext^1". Just write "1" in supertext
# [chrisbergr] And also this was ment only for the output on e.g. a webseite, rendered in html
# [tantek] [chrisbergr] you gave me another good idea. my auto-footnote-linker should also look for unicode superscript numbers in the source "plain" text as suffixes and auto-link them to lines starting with the same unicode superscript number, so if you can use such numbers directly, you can avoid "^" even in authoring
# [chrisbergr] Uh, but the editor (person) needs to know how to write sup numbers in plaintext.. That is possible with some wild key combinations I guess?
# [chrisbergr] Okay, that would be easier (for people like me)
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