#indieweb 2024-12-08
2024-12-08 UTC
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[tantek] capjamesg[d], to put it on topic on the record since it was a gift for the calendar, I have updated my post about Why, What, How to Post based on your feedback to hopefully better express the scope/intent and more scoped CTA: https://tantek.com/2024/337/t1/why-what-how-to-post
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[morganm] https://htmlforpeople.com/ <---- Ive been really settling on this course as the best total introduction to HTML and website making, lately
# [morganm] If someone asks how to get started I link them that
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# Moult [morganm]: you've got broken links on the main page
# Moult [morganm]: e.g you link to https://htmlforpeople.com/intro without a trailing slash which you haven't handled correctly
# Moult [morganm]: e.g. try `curl https://htmlforpeople.com/intro` notice how you get nothing back, compared to `curl https://htmlforpeople.com/intro/`
# [morganm] I dont see that issue when I click the links? Its not my website
# [morganm] Its just a good course Ive found, but they will likely be very responsive to any feedback
# Moult [morganm]: yeah most browsers will canonicalise the url so you won't notice the error
# [morganm] What browser did you use when you found the issue?
# Moult [morganm]: it'll break on some text browsers though. yeah sorry probably should report the error to them
# Moult [morganm]: elinks
# [morganm] Im curious, is a text based browser important to you for some particular reasons? Is accessibility and progressive enhancement not good enough on mainstream browsers? I just looked up elinks and its very interesting
# Moult [morganm]: i don't use many "web apps". and when i'm looking for content on the web, it's almost always text. minor exceptions are the occasional image search, video, or map
# Moult [morganm]: https://thinkmoult.com/using-elinks-browse-web.html
# [morganm] Is there a preferred web based test that checks for compatibility with text based browsers? Something like https://Yellowlab.tools or a simple Enter a URL and check the compatibility ?
# Moult [morganm]: not that i'm aware of. if someone builds a website that doesn't work on a text browser, they probably don't know how HTML works
# [morganm] Just thinking about my own website, and another website I operate
# Moult that, or don't care.
# Moult [morganm]: originally when building websites the first thing you'd do is build the most critical content and test it without any css or javascript and see if it semantically captures everything
# Moult [morganm]: and you'd also build it so that functionality would work without javascript - javascript was there to enhance the interaction, not be the sole way that you could view the site
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# immibis please keep discussion about how to keep the channel more inclusive and inviting in #indieweb-meta
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# [Joe_Crawford] Moult you said “originally when building websites the first thing you'd do is build the most critical content and test it without any css or javascript and see if it semantically captures everything”—I’d like to add some nuance to that. I don’t think that’s always been true.
# [Joe_Crawford] JavaScript and CSS came several years into the webs existence. But the idea you describe, “progressive enhancement” which is still a terrific lens to create web sites and web applications, came after “graceful degradation.”
# [Joe_Crawford] Graceful degradation was about creating the best that one could and then testing that it could also be usable for people with different browsers, different technical capabilities, different bandwidth. I think progressive enhancement is the better lens to use to look at making websites but neither are universal ideas. Sometimes you just want to make a page for your own needs.
# [Joe_Crawford] It’s when we think about wanting a wider audience for a page we have to consider what we’re imposing on those folks.
# [Joe_Crawford] I have to say, during that era of graceful degradation, it was the rarer developer who considered those without JS, CSS, Java applets, Flash, RealMedia, cable modems. Our era now is far better.
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chrisaldrich Good morning campers! 🏕
cyanteeth, bterry, peterkaminski, barnaby, angelo, geoffo, gRegor-mobile and LJoestar joined the channel
# LJoestar Hello there! I'm new here. I following a few years the indieweb project and I would like to participate on it with my own site and other related sites. I'm triying to understand the current status so, I was triying to find a "index" or search engine to find sites connected to the project, but, I didn't find anything. This alreaday exists?
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# [snarfed] welcome LJoestar! try https://indieweb.org/chat-names and https://indieweb.org/directory ?
# LJoestar Thanks! I'll see it, thanks a lot
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Loqi A list is a feature on personal sites, often a page (not a post), for collections of things that may not need separate posts, and distinct from a listicle https://indieweb.org/lists
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petermolnar is anyone using https://what3words.com/ to link to a location?
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[ilovecomputers] How do you logout of the wiki?
# [ilovecomputers] Okay, figured it out, go to home page of the wiki, scroll down to "Login," and change your domain on http://indielogin.com
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# chrisaldrich What is typecasting?
# Loqi Typecast is a method for syndicating/broadcasting content to the internet by posting to one's personal website by typing up a post using a typewriter https://indieweb.org/typecasting
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# Kolev Makes sense.
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# Moult [Joe_Crawford]: i'm not talking about graceful degradation
# Moult [Joe_Crawford]: or progressive enhancement, or mobile first, or any of that
# Moult [Joe_Crawford]: i'm talking about even before that - HTML was meant to be semantic. what you're describing came later when people realised they forgot how to build sites and tried to do better... and alas it never worked out and now we've got the current state of the internet
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# [morganm] Very interesting perspective. Id be interested in some test suites that showed compatibility with text only browsers. I don't think elinks works with Macos easily so I couldn't install it with homebrew.
# [morganm] Hello, all btw, I am working on my little websites today including my personal website
# Kolev link?
# [morganm] <Https://morganwebdev.org|Https://morganwebdev.org> . Working on a blog post in the background
# Kolev [morganm], thanks. Looks nice.
# Moult [morganm]: give it a try, and when you do manage to install it, write a post :)
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# Loqi [indienews] New post: https://gregorlove.com/2024/12/for-indiewebcamp-san-diego/
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