#indieweb 2024-12-22
2024-12-22 UTC
MyNetAz, cptaffe, Kupietz, antranigv, Nova_Guy, bterry, ren, grufwub, gRegor, schelcj, rvalue and AcesAndEights joined the channel
# 
[tantek]2 kupietz, ever since we had brunch I can now hear you when I read your chat statements and it's kinda hilarious 😂
# [tantek]2 like the "quote voice" for example
klymilark and Kupietz joined the channel
# Kupietz Haha! I've gotten inside your head! [wrings hands evilly]
# [tantek]2 lol
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# cophee Ooh weird, had to rejoin the server after a while off Discord
# cophee How's everyone going?
aelaraji7, nemonical, al3xaurus, ren, schelcj, toch, rvalue and lucas1 joined the channel
# lucas1 hi there everyone
# lbfaco hey guys, how's it going?
# [tantek]2 hi lucas1 lbfaco, do you guys have personal sites?
# lbfaco i don't, but looking forward to
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# [tantek]2 excellent!
# [tantek]2 what is getting started?
# 
Loqi 🎉 Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the IndieWeb community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page and other IndieWeb essentials https://indieweb.org/Getting_started
# [tantek]2 lbfaco ^ take a look and let us know how we can help!
# lbfaco thank you! I've actually set up a github page
# lbfaco but its pretty much in a "Hello world!" stage atm
# lbfaco lol
# lbfaco i want to move my substack content there
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# lbfaco and my plan is to go through mozilla developers network
# lbfaco and increment the website as I learn new stuff
# lbfaco i've went through the css and html part of it a couple of years ago when i had more time, but it kinda faded as i didn't keep working on it
# lbfaco now i have some time on my hands again and was thinking about giving it a try again
# lbfaco does it sound like a good way to get started?
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# [tantek]2 yes! that sounds quite reasonable! I'd say you're ready to start figuring out a personal domain name to use to serve your static github page!
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# Kupietz Lbfaco welcome aboard! Another thing you might enjoy is the front end study hall zoom meetings
# Kupietz I think you’ll find a lot of people there, as well as in chat here, willing to answer questions and help out
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# Kupietz I think if you’re just starting to get your feet wet in HTML and CSS, some of the things people that get discussed there might be a bit advanced at first, because it’s people of all skill levels, including a couple of pretty experienced folks. But it’s all very friendly, helpful people and can be a great resource.
# [tantek]2 FrESH++ events are great! Highly recommended and very well run by [Joe_Crawford]++
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# [tantek]2 I am seriously overthinking coffee serving venue attributes, even when I tried to come up with a "short list" of flattened attributes that are "interesting/important" to me 😂 https://indieweb.org/User:Tantek.com/venue-category-emojis#coffee_venues_flattened_common_attributes — would love your reactions / insights / feedback capjamesg[d], [Joe_Crawford], gRegor and any other dedicated cafe-goers
# [tantek]2 (this is all for figuring out how to best cluster, list, display coffee serving venues and recommended lists thereof on my personal site, obv)
# [tantek]2 I will eventually crack the code of a good coffee venue taxonomy
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# [tantek]2 [snarfed] they're definitely a trap
# [tantek]2 it helps to have (1) a real world source of examples you are categorizing; (2) a strategy for evolving your taxonomy based on new real world information
# [tantek]2 that way you can avoid (1) the trap of going super-academic into theoreticals like volcanoes with fax machines (schema-org insanity); (2) being trapped inside a brittle taxonomy, especially hierarchical, that breaks when one or more new real world things show up that don't fit into it, or worse, fit into multiple categories in a "strict" taxonomy
# [tantek]2 [snarfed] your choice of taxonomy here is quite interesting 🙂 https://snarfed.org/lists
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# [tantek]2 Exactly!
# [tantek]2 and is there an "empirically designed" variant that's a hybrid of emergent and deliberately designed? (see what I did there? 😂 )
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# Hoinkas Hi to everyone!
# [tantek]2 Welcome Hoinkas! Do you have a personal site?
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# Kupietz Tantek, rather than clutter up chat with a novella-length reply I've added a "brainstorming" section to your cafe taxonomy page with some typically verbose comments. (I think indieweb have not yet seen much of my propensity for writing walls of text... you will see a lot of this sort of thing from me over time. I think long, I write long, and editing is not among my skills. )
# Kupietz BTW Tanket tangential to this topic, but just relevant to the fact that we're having this sort of conversation: the other day I found myself thinking, "I know I'm in the right place when there are people here who are not only prepared to argue things like that it's a 'html class' and a 'css class', but have already got a web page posted doing so." :-)
# Kupietz sp. 'html class' NOT a 'css class',
# Kupietz No, Loqi, I was just referring to it obliquely in making a point about the quality of conversation here, not making technical discussion about it. Hugs.
# Kupietz And yes, I am talking to the bot like it's a person. How else is it supposed to learn? ;-)
# [tantek]2 kupietz no please fork and make your own User: page if you want to expound on your experience thoughts / observations about taxonomies. [mattl] asked first and I asked him to similarly create a separate page. You are free to reuse whatever I put on that page however you like
# Kupietz Oh, ok.
# [tantek]2 Also I happen to disagree about coffee / cafes / venues vs music because they are two VERY different empirical data sets. However don't let that stop you from making that analysis! It's ok that we disagree with different opinions on a fuzzy complex subject!
# Kupietz Mostly I just wanted to reply to you, and didn't want to post a giant exegesis in chat.
# [tantek]2 Right, I'd say the best bet is to refine your critique so you *can* briefly express it in chat
# [tantek]2 Or put it on your own User: page to capture it (and cite it from chat)!
# Kupietz :thumbsup:
# [tantek]2 Also I’m likely to ignore any futilist feedback because that goes against my primary assumption that SOMETHING reasonably sensible can be built here
# [tantek]2 (Probably in general true about any futilist feedback about anything indieweb)
# Kupietz It wasn't my intent to be futilist at all, but merely to ruminate on the challenges & obstacles, with the intent of being constructive. Although we can respectfully disagree if you don't think that's constructive.
# Kupietz The intent was constructive criticism, not to say it can't be done.
# Kupietz N.B. I will at all times acknowledge that I may not express myself clearly; not blaming anyone else if my intended meaning didn't come across.
# [tantek]2 Ruminating on challenges without offering ideas for solutions can tend to be futilist or at a minimum discouraging, not constructive