#indieweb 2025-12-02

2025-12-02 UTC
gordinator, ax562, gRegor, cro-mignon, troojg, Salt, PrehistoricWeeb, bterry, oakridge, jboy and smovic joined the channel
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smovic test
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[morgan] You tested positive.
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[morgan] Welcome
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[morgan] Do you have a personal website? A lot of the discussion is about personal websites and domains and such
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[morgan] https://adrianroselli.com/2025/12/web-design-dev-advent-calendars-for-2025.html IndieWeb Gift Calendar gets a nod in this list
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[tantek] woot!
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Loqi 😊
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[tantek] gift calendar << As listed in Adrian Roselli’s [https://adrianroselli.com/2025/12/web-design-dev-advent-calendars-for-2025.html Web Design / Dev Advent Calendars for 2025]!
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Loqi ok, I added "As listed in Adrian Roselli’s [https://adrianroselli.com/2025/12/web-design-dev-advent-calendars-for-2025.html Web Design / Dev Advent Calendars for 2025]!" to the "See Also" section of /2025-12-indieweb-gift-calendar https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=106240&oldid=106237
powerLien, DanQ, gRegor, coldfeet, Pixi, mdemo2, oodani, boramalper, tricon, ensoyote, tumdum, ggarcia24, ttybitnik, [rose], ax562, cro-mignon and thegreekgeek joined the channel
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[aciccarello] What are people's opinions on telemetry in an open source project? I for sure would expect an opt-out option but opt-in has so little usage that it's almost worthless.
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[aciccarello] I'm asking because I'm looking at improving debugging in Omnibear and browsers don't have a great way to combine page, extension UI, and background process logging. So it's hard to get a full picture of what's going on.
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[aciccarello] But I don't want to invest time in adding telemetry if that's a big turn-off for people.
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[aciccarello] what is telemetry?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "telemetry" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "telemetry is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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itskalvaxus I see it's a browser extension? What kind of metrics would you like to track? Cause to me it seems like once it's installed, there's not much you can do anymore. If it's to offer support, then I'd say I'd be against it.
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[aciccarello] My thought is to send errors to somewhere I can monitor
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[aciccarello] I might want to track some simple stats like how often people post or if people need to login repeatedly.
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[tantek] There's a couple of ways to incentivize this that I can think of that feel up front and respectful of the user
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[tantek] One is to offer to provide the user with summary stats of what you're learning from their usage for their own curiosity / interest. That helps demystify "what are you tracking" and shows good faith in providing user value and not just being "extractive"
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[aciccarello] I like that suggestion for transparency
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[tantek] A second option is to figure out a broader request for "please help support this open source project in one or more of the following ways: telemetry, bug reporting, feature requests, donations etc"
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[aciccarello] I assume you mean for an opt-in option?
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[tantek] When placed in that sort of contract, of a donation / support for the project, that helps tell the user a story about why they're doing it to feel good about giving back
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[tantek] Yes opt-in
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[tantek] You could also make it semi-opt-out where upon first run (or upon usage after a week?) you show a "please help support this project" message/alert like that with a bunch of checkboxes but only the "telemetry" one checked by default and all the others there unchecked. Then the user can decide sure that's reasonable, or maybe they want to donate their time/money differently
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[tantek] Also be clear about ease of turning it off whenever and where to do that
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[tantek] And up front note default data retention/deletion policy, as well as an option to delete data after the fact
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[tantek] Lastly figure out the design of what to do if they ever uninstall
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[aciccarello] Those are all great suggestions. I'll have to do some more UI work to implement all that but I definitely want anything that is added to be explicit.
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[snarfed] [aciccarello] this is deep, but good: https://research.swtch.com/telemetry-intro
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[aciccarello] Thanks, I'll take a look later 👀
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[aciccarello] I also would like to get more fine-grain with permissions. Right now the extension needs permissions to run in the page but I'd like that to be optional.
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[tantek] aciccarello, as you saw there is no "telemetry" page yet so maybe this is enough info to start one, since "telemetry" is typically specific to something client-side that is gathering sending information to a service whereas "analytics" are more a server -driven thing
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[tantek] Like if you think those suggestion above are good considerations, you can copy paste them from chat into at least a brainstorming section to start
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fnhipster Howdy! How come I just learned about indieweb just now. Good stuff!
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itskalvaxus fnhipster: Welcome to the club!
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fnhipster Got excited when I saw IRC. Too bad the good old mIRC doesn't work in macOS.
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capjamesg Welcome!
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fnhipster /help
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fnhipster I'm rusty with my IRC commands. It's been a while.
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[KevinMarks] what is observability?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "observability" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "observability is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] welcome! [olu]++
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Loqi [olu] has 1 karma over the last year
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[social] Hello [olu]++
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Loqi [olu] has 2 karma over the last year
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capjamesg Welcome!
[capjamesg], DanQ, thegreekgeek_ and [Mike_Mai] joined the channel
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[Mike_Mai] Howdy! 👋
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[Mike_Mai] I'm a designer coder that makes single-file-sites (minimal websites built in single HTML files). Nice to meet y'all. Thanks to [morgan], I found this place.
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[Mike_Mai] https://mikemai.net/
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[morgan] Welcome !
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capjamesg I love the design of your website [Mike_Mai]!
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[artlung] https://bsky.app/profile/iwmovieclub.sploot.com.web.brid.gy/post/3m6vfokt23jg2
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capjamesg [mattl] This month's movie looks so fun!
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[Mike_Mai] ↩️ thank you
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nsmsn Big fan of your projects, [Mike_Mai], especially <https://mikemai.net/mcss/>
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gRegor ooh, nice! Welcome, [Mike_Mai]
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[KevinMarks] Nice site, though that Boldonse font is giving me the ick with a few circular letterforms -the lowercase ceo seem to have come from another font and squashed down the bdgpq, and the uppercase has different interlopers CGOQ
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[KevinMarks] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2025/12/indieweb-20251202-220607-screenshot_2025-12-02_at_22.05.43_0000.png
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[Mike_Mai] ha thanks! yeah this is a funky font i am experimenting with.
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[Mike_Mai] probably not gonna use it for any client projects. just playing around in personal projects
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[KevinMarks] fragmention << https://blogs.igalia.com/schenney/find-in-page-highlight-styling/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://blogs.igalia.com/schenney/find-in-page-highlight-styling/" to the "See Also" section of /fragmention https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=106260&oldid=96463