#indieweb 2025-12-17

2025-12-17 UTC
cambridgeport90, troojg, unl0ckd and DusteD joined the channel
#
[morgan] I updated my website today. Felt good.
BigShip, cambridgeport90, sp1ff, ax562, duckito, ensoyote, DanQ and Kaptan joined the channel; darylsun left the channel
#
cupparex [morgan]: congrats! that always feels great
jonnybarnes and [Trevor_Morris] joined the channel
#
[Trevor_Morris] Content or functionality (code)?
cambridgeport90 joined the channel
#
cupparex this is an awesome blog I wanted to share. The navigation and post types are very well done here. https://rardk.com/
rata1 joined the channel
#
rata1 r
cambridgeport91 joined the channel
#
[artlung]2 Once again some sort of micropayments will solve everything, I am told. https://402gate.xyz (I want to like this but… this seems unlikely)
#
[artlung]2 what is large language model traffic?
#
Loqi Large language model traffic refers to web requests made by LLM operators to ingest data for use in training AI models, or to answer user queries in "search" mode (i.e https://indieweb.org/large_language_model_traffic
madude, thegreekgeek and ensoyote joined the channel
#
[artlung]2 ^ there is no writing edition coming up tomorrow. Messages in any of the chat channels beginning with “[edit]” are typically glitches from Discord.
#
[artlung]2 There IS a writing pop up in January though!
#
[artlung]2 When is writing?
#
Loqi Homebrew Website Club - Writing Edition on Jan 17 https://events.indieweb.org/vXocJMdNFV18
srazkvt, gordinator and yin joined the channel
#
capjamesg No writing session until January, but we do have HWC today! https://events.indieweb.org/2025/12/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-2025-rewind-aVYruLgrwu0F
sp1ff, aaronpk, gordinator, gordinator_, ensoyote and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
[jeremycherfas] Not going to manage it, I’m afraid. Too late for me.
gordinator, thegreekgeek, aaronpk, ensoyote, sp1ff, snoreboar, yin, flickeringbytes, gRegor, cambridgeport90, cambridgeport91, madude, ax562, [Trevor_Morris] and gtx joined the channel
#
Loqi Homebrew Website Club Europe/London - 2025 Rewind is starting soon! Join us! https://events.indieweb.org/aVYruLgrwu0F
ehmry left the channel
#
[tantek] capjamesg you around ^
#
capjamesg Yes. The event will start in 8 minutes.
madude, sp1ff`, AcesAndEights81, ensoyote, Desi__M and cambridgeport90 joined the channel
#
capjamesg Thank you to everyone who joined HWC this evening!
#
capjamesg HWC Europe will be on a break until the first or second week in January. Stay tuned on https://events.indieweb.org for updates on when our next event will be!
bterry joined the channel
#
[tantek] for the folks that never heard of "slashtags", here you go: http://microsyntax.pbworks.com/Slashtags
#
[tantek] blog post that proposed them: https://web.archive.org/web/20150910165040/http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/11/08/slashtags/
#
Loqi [indienews] New post: "Grateful for the indie web" https://jamesg.blog/2025/12/17/grateful-for-the-indie-web
#
gRegor Neat, I think I vaguely remember those
[eri], ensoyote and unl0ckd joined the channel
#
[tantek] slashtags--
#
Loqi slashtags has -1 karma over the last year
#
[tantek] slashpage-- for being jargon
#
Loqi slashpage has -1 karma over the last year
oodani joined the channel
#
trwnh ...is there a problem with using them? it seems relatively harmless as a convention, although maybe not something you can dependably parse
#
[tantek] visual noise?
#
trwnh i would make the same claim more generally for any microsyntax. i know chris messina is quite proud of being known as "the inventor of the hashtag" (and in my experience gets a little prickly when people suggest things about hashtags), but the same problem exists for hashtags as well.
#
trwnh ah, looking at the archived article's metadata, i see the proposal for slashtags was by chris messina as well! i suppose that tracks.
#
trwnh @mentions too, have the same problem. the problem being more generally: you cannot extract meaning unambiguously unless you know which conventions are being used and in what context.
#
trwnh re: "visual noise" i would say that people are doing the best they can using communication formats that are too limited. i'm doing so in this very irc message by saying "re:" to indicate that i am replying or responding to a specific thing.
#
trwnh most formats have a sort of separation between header and body, metadata and content. twitterlikes don't let you make arbitrary claims, and you can only control the plain text content. so really it's just one more matroska doll you have to unwrap -- you get an http message, unwrap it for the body content which is usually html, then unwrap the html to get the real content (say a .h-entry .p-content), but you can unwrap that plain text to get
#
trwnh something else if it follows a certain profile.
#
trwnh if the author only has control over the .p-content and cannot set their own html tags or http headers, then they will reinvent equivalents within the plain-text content.
#
Loqi friendly reminder trwnh, it looks like this conversation is getting pretty technical (Microformats, headers), can you take it to #indieweb-dev?
#
trwnh oops
#
trwnh i can follow up in -dev but the general indieweb part i am trying to say is that people make do with what they have
asarandi joined the channel
#
[tantek] they certainly try. and not all attempts succeed, that's my point. slashtags were DOA.
#
[tantek] the comparisons are missing many key points
#
[tantek] hashtags had tons of prior art (usage, humans using them for decades) with IRC. slashtags had zero.
#
[tantek] @-mentions also had tons of prior plain text usage, blog comments, Flickr photo comments, PHPBB forums etc. many people simultaneously used @-username without anyone top-down declaring it to be a "thing". there was already widespread human linguistic usage in the wild before @-mentions were "formalized".
#
[tantek] there's a big misconception by a lot of developers / technologists that if only they make the "right" proposal, with the right "pitch" that it will be magically adopted. that methodology is nearly always false — has a horrible track record.
cambridgeport90 joined the channel
#
[tantek] much more successful is the strategy of identifying existing organically emergent behaviors, and then describing & formalizing that
cambridgeport90, asarandi, CrimeWave and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] pave the cowpaths
#
Loqi Homebrew Website Club - Eastern is starting soon! Join us! https://events.indieweb.org/8xJ5TiPtMfHe
#
[morgan] Planning on joining !
barnaby, jeremycherfas and DanQ joined the channel