#dev 2016-07-05

2016-07-05 UTC
Loqi joined the channel
#
aaronpk ping
#
Loqi pong
#
aaronpk what is a post?
Loqi joined the channel
#
aaronpk what is a post?
#
aaronpk what is indiewebcamp?
#
aaronpk what is indiewebcamp?
#
Loqi IndieWebCamps are brainstorming and building events where IndieWeb creators gather semi-regularly to meet in person, share ideas, and collaborate on IndieWeb design, UX, & code for their own sites https://indiewebcamp.com/indiewebcamp
#
aaronpk welcome Loqi
#
Loqi who, me?
gRegorLove, miklb, Loqi and ben_thatmustbeme joined the channel
#
unicyclic.com mal edited /projects (+101) "/*Dobrado*/ Just noticed Github was mentioned here when it should refer to git, which also isn't really required (gitlab.com provide a download option which I've linked to)." (view diff)
#
aaronpk hey cool
#
aaronpk oops
#
aaronpk hey why can't i set the topic?
#
aaronpk oh
#
aaronpk irc is a terrible protocol
#
aaronpk if you try to include a channel name in the topic it sets the topic for that channel instead
#
aaronpk that might be my client interpreting the command wrong, but that should never happen
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+199) "note things that are done!" (view diff)
#
cweiske.de edited /WordPress (-372) "/* Fatal Error memory exhausted */ see http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/php-memory-exhausted.htm" (view diff)
cweiske joined the channel
#
cweiske aaronpk, logs are broken when I set my timezone to europe/berlin
#
cweiske https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2016-07-04
#
cweiske the next button does not work there
#
aaronpk Tomorrow hasn't happened in Berlin yet
#
cweiske https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2016-07-05 works with europe/berlin
#
cweiske it would be nice to have a channel dropdown on the top of chat.indieweb.org instead of the link to itself "#dev"
#
cweiske and TZ autoselection would also be useful
#
voxpelli I can reproduce what cweiske says
#
cweiske strange that #indieweb is so empty compared to the >100 people previously in #indiewebcamp
#
voxpelli I guess a lot of people were idling and thus haven't restarted their clients yet :)
#
cweiske #idleworld
#
voxpelli (not sure how eg IRCCloud handles the redirection thing, I joined here before the redirect was made)
#
voxpelli Would perhaps be an idea to add a bit to #indiewebcamp that repeats the move message, it's already fairly high up in the logs
#
voxpelli s/bit/bot/
#
Loqi voxpelli meant to say: Would perhaps be an idea to add a bot to #indiewebcamp that repeats the move message, it's already fairly high up in the logs
#
tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (+780) "/* Upcoming */ Togethera, Upshot" (view diff)
#
www.rmendes.net edited /User:Www.rmendes.net (+88) "test adding my rss feed" (view diff)
Loqi, snarfed and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
GWG Hello, snarfed
#
aaronparecki.com deleted /User:RMdes "moved to [[User:Www.rmendes.net]]"
tantek joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /Template:irc_user (+884) "Documentation" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /IRC_People (+51) "/* Nicknames */ link to irc user template w/ docs" (view diff)
#
tantek neat
KevinMarks, KevinMarks_ and snarfed joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /Google_Calendar (+116) "/* Issues */ 2016-06-30 outage, link to google app status" (view diff)
#
GWG !tell snarfed Does Post Kind specific code go in Micropub or Micropub specific code in Post Kinds?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek gRegorLove: were you going to do the /WordPress -> /PHP memory issue thing?
#
gRegorLove I need to stop chipping in my experience, if it leads to more wiki work.
#
gRegorLove I mean.. sure :)
#
tantek gRegorLove: get in line ;) (re: stop chipping in my experience, if it leads to more wiki work.)
#
snarfed GWG: huh, good question! i don't know
#
Loqi snarfed: GWG left you a message 7 minutes ago: Does Post Kind specific code go in Micropub or Micropub specific code in Post Kinds?
#
gRegorLove Heh, cweiske removed it again
#
tantek didn't see the edit here?
#
aaronpk looks like it was right before Loqi joined the channel this morning
#
tantek checks RecentChanges
#
gregorlove.com edited /PHP (+682) "Fatal error memory exhausted" (view diff)
#
aaronpk i wonder if Loqi would be more stable if he connnected through a bouncer
#
GWG snarfed, I don't know either. That is why I only disabled the post content generation in Micropub and figured I would do the rest in Post Kinds.
#
snarfed GWG: what's the wordpress convention for plugins to be aware of each other like this? directly like you had? or through one plugin's filter/hook? or...?
#
gregorlove.com edited /PHP (+18) "/* Projects */ ProcessWire" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /Google_Calendar (+111) "/* Issues */ note screenshot of recent outage and tweet" (view diff)
#
tantek documenting outages (silo or otherwise) is still good for other reasons
#
tantek e.g. show that they do happen (as opposed to claims of never down), and OTOH show somewhat how rarely they may happen
#
tantek and by capturing screenshots, we also capture UX examples
#
tantek which maybe others can draw inspiration from for their own outage messages ;)
#
tantek I leave the documentation of an "outage" page to others ;)
#
snarfed sure, sgtm
#
snarfed (also fwiw, google calendar is arguably more a paid service than a free service :P)
#
tantek the evolution of Twitter's failwhale, robots etc. is quite hilarious
#
voxpelli that PHP memory issue is pretty tricky – to fully avoid it one needs to take available memory on server, subtract memory requirements from non-php processes, then divide by maximum needed memory needed by ones PHP script and set the server to never process more than that amount of PHP requests at the same time
#
voxpelli as "non-php" processes can sometimes be a MySQL-server there can be lots of joy
#
voxpelli and with shared hosting the responsibility for doing the calculations is on the one building the one-size-fits-all hosting and they likely won't have taken your app into consideration
#
voxpelli in conclusion: never ever ever run Drupal on shared hosting
#
rMdes good to know
#
rMdes voxpelli, that's only for drupal or wordpress (if on shared host) falls under the same issues (trying to find out what i can do for my shared-hosted WP sites)
#
tantek voxpelli: can you add that to /PHP ?
#
gRegorLove It's also difficult on shared hosting for an app to be opinionated and set error logging + turn off display of error messages.
#
gRegorLove WordPress does have constants that can be set in that regard. I'm guessing they're not on by default due to the wide variety of PHP hosts.
snarfed and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
kodfabrik.se edited /PHP (+1642) "/* Fatal error memory exhausted */ Adding some memory exhaustion recommendations" (view diff)
#
@RikMende @voxpelli this is webmention as a service right ? similarity in the fact that Disqus is "comment as a service" or more? (twitter.com/_/status/750329031317487616)
#
@Inkwater_Masha The I-Don’t-Have-Any-Time Hour-a-Day Book Marketing Plan http://tonyriches.blogspot.ca/2014/08/the-i-dont-have-any-time-hour-day-book.html #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/750324725998620676)
#
@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 99 (twitter.com/_/status/750275537206116352)
#
@voxpelli @synvila Perhaps rather a feed reader that supports Micropub so that it can send your actions back home so you yourself can send Webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/750216584019451904)
#
@wphuntme Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress | @jpen365 http://www.wphunt.me/general/trackbacks-vs-pingbacks-vs-webmentions-for-wordpress-atjpen365 (twitter.com/_/status/749790647738044416)
#
@muc_webdesigner Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress https://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/?p=153678 #wpmudev (twitter.com/_/status/749745633205096448)
#
@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 52 (twitter.com/_/status/749721888251863040)
#
@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 20 (twitter.com/_/status/749188372669820928)
#
@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 78 (twitter.com/_/status/748654855003193344)
#
@synvila We need a feed reader that's also a publishing tool and that has the ability to send webmentions. That way we … http://blog.henrikcarlsson.se/2016/05/7892/ (twitter.com/_/status/748222413746356224)
#
@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 52 (twitter.com/_/status/748156571339862016)
#
@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 83 (twitter.com/_/status/747653255648387072)
#
@kunimiya 昨日の更新ですが、W3Cで勧告候補になっているWebmentionについてブログ記事を書きました。 / Webmention ：HTML5時代のトラックバック http://www.kunimiya.info/blog/2016/06/26/introduction-to-webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/747273348510449669)
#
aaronpk oh sorry haha
#
@John316Network https://booklaunch.io/llwroberts/thedoor - The Door is free. #IARTG #John316author #indieauth https://twitter.com/LorilynRoberts/status/739783198624751616/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/747198128726507520)
#
@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 60 (twitter.com/_/status/747153966232965120)
#
voxpelli ^ if someone wants to check if that makes sense then feel free
#
aaronpk just moved webmention+indieauth tweets here
#
aaronpk forgot that it would backfil
#
voxpelli yay, indie authors! :D
#
aaronpk aaaand forgot to blacklist "indie author"
#
voxpelli 😂
#
tantek wtf
#
tantek !spammer ReadersGazette
#
Loqi Got it! There are now 2 spammers blacklisted
#
tantek uh oh that's it?
#
tantek uh, aaronpk could you migrate the spammers list from #indiewebcamp to #indieweb-dev too?
#
gRegorLove voxpelli: Thanks. Good information added to /PHP. I was thinking of summarizing instructions for how to handle those fatal errors more gracefully, like at least logging + not displaying the error message.
#
voxpelli gRegorLove: I think it's hard to manage them gracefully – the only more "graceful" way would be a full on white screen of death
#
gRegorLove It doesn't fix the error, but gives a better UX
#
gRegorLove Beats blue screen of death, right? :)
#
voxpelli Better UX, but worse DX as shared hosts rarely has an error log or such :/
#
gRegorLove True
#
voxpelli I'm suprised that WordPress itself doesn't really log anything to any logs, apart from what PHP/Apache itself would log
#
voxpelli Drupal has more of a tradition of logging, as is custom when building bigger applications
#
gRegorLove Wordpress has options to write to a debug.log file
#
gRegorLove Though maybe not fatal errors. hm
KevinMarks__ and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
aaronpk Ha oops yeah
#
aaronpk too bad I don't have a good way of sharing the block lists
#
tantek copy paste?
#
tantek ;)
#
aaronpk I meant going forward but yeah I can copy it in to start
#
tantek.com edited /WordPress (+1115) "Undo revision 29327 by [[Special:Contributions/Cweiske.de|Cweiske.de]] ([[User talk:Cweiske.de|talk]]), shorten description, link general PHP error (still is a WordPress issue, stop deleting until you have evidence WP is fixed to prevent exception)" (view diff)
#
tantek and frankly if WP *can't* be fixed, then that's a criticism too - that this is a non-fixable problem with WP
loic_m joined the channel
#
voxpelli I guess the same is true for any cgi:ish servers (but not really sure, but the fact that you load and run your entire framework into memory for each and every request is pretty crazy in a way)
#
tantek yeah
#
voxpelli was the thing I loved the most when I started moving from PHP to Node.js – that suddenly global data and code could be loaded once and shared between all requests
#
aaronpk course that comes with its own problems too
#
tantek voxpelli: that sounds notable enough to note on the /node page
#
tantek had to resist typing "nodable enough"
#
voxpelli tantek: well, it's true for any similar such language/system like Go, Rust, C etc as well – don't know how Python and Ruby fit into it though, maybe they can run as both?
#
aaronpk cgi is uncommon for ruby, but possible
#
aaronpk more often you run the ruby app in something like passenger which runs the process continuously
KevinMarks__, KevinMarks, snarfed and snarfed1 joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+2) "collapse more events into more information section at the bottom" (view diff)
#
GWG snarfed, will look into that.
#
loqi.me created /default_wiki_skin (+55) "prompted by aaronpk and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
cweiske joined the channel
#
GWG snarfed1, so far, no WordPress answer to whose plugin the plugin dependent code belongs in
#
tantek.com edited /2016/homepage (+526) "deleting "too overwhelming" as that applied to before 7/4 homepage, been edited down a lot, drop To Do (no one else bothered), note have been working homepage simplification, analyze examples a bit" (view diff)
#
GWG I would suggest that we open it up to the wiki but I am suffering from voting fatigue
#
snarfed eh, no need to get that heavyweight
#
snarfed either is fine with me, along with a comment linking to the (other) plugin
#
tantek !tell gRegorLove,KartikPrabhu I resolved the issue you added to https://indieweb.org/2016/homepage#Issues could you take a look? Also advocating using GH issues for new issues (link at that link). Thanks!
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
GWG snarfed, my plan is that Micropub disable automatic post content generation if Post Kinds is enabled, but detecting the type of post and setting the fields for Post Kinds stay in that plugin.
#
miklb GWG that makes sense to me from just following the conversation
#
snarfed GWG: sgtrm
#
snarfed s/r//
#
Loqi snarfed meant to say: GWG: sgtm
#
GWG Then, once merged, I can work on the other part and start posting.
#
GWG I also need to loop in Bridgy Publish
KevinMarks__ and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
GWG snarfed, I want to teach that Bridgy plugin I wrote to add syndication targets.
#
snarfed nice!
#
GWG Which might require some changes on the Micropub side.
#
GWG I have to review how to hook in any arbitrary POSSE plugin
#
GWG And document it for future uses
#
GWG aaronpk, didn't you have a screenshot of your syndication targets you shared?
#
bear that's my chore for this week - find out why my syndication targets are not showing up in quill
#
aaronpk there's a small screenshot here https://indieweb.org/Quill
#
GWG Here's the issue...if there are multiple plugins that can POSSE, how do I avoid collision?
#
miklb GWG fwiw, this is mine http://cdn.miklb.com/images/New_Post_2016-07-05_15-51-26.png
#
bear is sad his don't appear
#
aaronpk oh nice. good idea with the two versions of bridgy syndication!
#
GWG I just found it... you can label.
#
GWG So I can do Twitter via Bridgy Publish vs Twitter via SNAP
#
aaronpk speaking of... i'd appreciate any comments from people on https://github.com/aaronpk/Micropub/issues/32
#
GWG I will need a PR to Micropub for that though.
#
voxpelli should finally be doing some new Micropub work myself now
#
miklb yay!
#
Loqi giggles
#
GWG That should allow what I need to syndicate.
#
GWG So, feature complete for me to use Micropub
#
voxpelli aaronpk: no link to the spec html from the repo?
#
voxpelli the browser-renderable spec html that is
#
aaronpk oops!
#
aaronpk fixed! not sure how that happened
#
voxpelli miklb: thinking about maybe squashing the history of the main micropub repo – lots of nonsense commits in there (even totally empty ones to trigger redeploys)
#
tantek sounds reasonable (good topic for #indieweb-dev)
#
miklb voxpelli by main you mean the one that is currently private?
#
voxpelli miklb: exactly, I'm making some final touches to add an app.json and an Heroku button and will make it public after that
#
voxpelli my empty commits with messages like "WOHO!" looks kind of – odd
#
miklb cool. I should be able to copy over my changes if necessary to a new deploy if need be
#
voxpelli cool, I'll look into squashing it then
#
tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+20) "/* indieweb community */ working on homepage updates" (view diff)
#
miklb voxpelli yeah, do what you need to do to be able to make that repo public. My code is pushed to heroku, so until I needed to make a change it shouldn't be affected.
#
voxpelli miklb: super, I'll get it done during tomorrow then
#
miklb awesome. Can't wait to promote it.
tantek joined the channel
#
miklb voxpelli also, since that will be public, I will work on adding basic support for the jekyll-indieweb theme
tantek, colintedford, snarfed, KevinMarks_, KevinMarks and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /CDN (+329) "add indieweb examples (and counterexample i guess)" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /CDN (+472) "more examples" (view diff)
#
bear perfect forward secrecy is a concept in cryptography where the loss of long term keys (think certs) does not compromise the session keys derived from those long term keys
#
loqi.me created /perfect_forward_secrecy (+198) "prompted by bear and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok