#dev 2016-07-22

2016-07-22 UTC
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KevinMarks_ Hm. If I do yaml to json to xoxo does that count?
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KevinMarks_ Wouldn't give headings though
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tantek !tell petermolnar re: accepting patches via webmention, see https://indieweb.org/edit and add more thoughts to Brainstorming!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-07-22.html is amazing
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www.boffosocko.com edited /WordPress (+2321) "Reworked flow; streamlined themes section; fixed typos" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /WordPress (-149) "Additional streamlining; moving some content from getting started to sub-page" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+2331) "Streamlining workflow; added some tips/tricks; fixed typos; imported pieces from related pages" (view diff)
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petermolnar tantek: 'lightweight markup languages' could also be called 'a special hell'; I'm now summarizing what I'd like to see in one and it appears none has all the functions
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Loqi petermolnar: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 47 minutes ago: re: accepting patches via webmention, see https://indieweb.org/edit and add more thoughts to Brainstorming!
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petermolnar they either sacrifice readability for features or just lack features
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tantek petermolnar, IMO as soon as they sacrifice readability they cease to become lightweight
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tantek and they're just "markup languages"
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tantek that's one of the biggest problems with what became Markdown
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tantek (if not the biggest)
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petermolnar asciidoc is near perfect but the lack of footnote-like urls is painful
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tantek http://indieweb.org/irc/2016-06-03/line/1464937740573
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petermolnar imo footnotes are exceptionally useful when includeing long urls
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tantek petermolnar I did write up a brainstorm about that
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petermolnar I've come across numerous idea pages with 95% similarities to your or my ideas
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tantek is looking for his footnote writeup
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petermolnar for example: http://dpk.io/avocado1
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tantek no
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petermolnar similar
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petermolnar not matching
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tantek violates the readability thing nearly immediately with the %...% nonsense
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sknebel (Loqi, why didn't you quote tantek's log link? (aaronpk))
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petermolnar Loqi, are you there?
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tantek petermolnar: no people go too far preferring features instead of clean readability
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petermolnar I agree
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petermolnar to be honest, my biggest pain is: a, images; b, urls
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petermolnar images, because of all the options, such as alt, title, caption, etc.
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petermolnar urls because they tend to be LONG
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tantek petermolnar: agreed, which is why I started with autolinking / autoembedding images
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tantek and I"m pretty happy with the current result
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tantek only thing I'm missing (from implementation) is the "alt" - already have syntax figured out
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petermolnar also, I haven't seem striketrough properly supported anywhere
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tantek too rare to bother with frankly
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petermolnar not really
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tantek I mean, you could gather real world plain text examples to prove otherwise ;)
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petermolnar from that point, you are right; I was approaching from the what I somewhat regularly use when I write
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tantek here's an example of what I was trying with footnotes/endnotes (but haven't implemented as links yet) http://tantek.com/2013/248/t2/finished-newsflesh-trilogy-blackout-next-feed-2002
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petermolnar strikethrough is useful for showing, for example, a less cynical word instead of what you were about to write down ;)
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tantek I just don't write like that anymore
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cweiske I use ins/del for that
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petermolnar [text with reference][x] works for me, it is easy on my eyes, [text with reference]^x is, for me, harder to read
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petermolnar oh my: http://adamvarga.com/strike/
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petermolnar this is wrong on so many levels :D
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petermolnar !tell aaronpk Loqi is not respoding, nor following URLs
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar hm
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petermolnar I guess this was like sending an email because the mail server is down
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petermolnar unicode hell, 2.0: http://yaytext.com/
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Loqi 😄
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petermolnar.net edited /markdown (-114) "/* Alternatives */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /markdown (+285) "/* Dialects */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /markdown (-139) "/* Other Alternatives */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /markdown (+68) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /markdown (+241) (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /markdown (+156) (view diff)
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voxpelli petermolnar: I think that if you click the "minor edit" button when you edit then the edit won't show here, in case you want to avoid having eveyrhting show up here ;)
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petermolnar i'll do it next time
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petermolnar !tell tantek I'm trying to write a regex, that could match /em/ text, but not URLs and would allow /em text with / inside/ and I'm failing, especially when a text contains relative urls; maybe this is the reason why em is represented by another char in most syntaxes?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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polytechnic.co.uk created /User:Polytechnic.co.uk (+213) "Initial page creation" (view diff)
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polytechnic.co.uk edited /2016/Brighton (+21) (view diff)
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polytechnic.co.uk edited /2016/Brighton (+45) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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polytechnic.co.uk edited /2016/Brighton (-21) "Grrr. I hate mediawiki formatting" (view diff)
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voxpelli !tell aaronpk Loqi not matching tweets with "indie web" or "indie web camp"? Used a bit: https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Indie%20Web%22
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi !tell aaronpk loqi not matching tweets with "indie web"
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, maybe we should move conversation in here
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ben_thatmustbeme really needs to get his connection to his home machine working again
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voxpelli speaking of mobile – anyone tried doing something fun with http://www.jasonclient.org/ ?
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I was about to if it got more than that.
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GWG But can you check your error log please? I was using your site.
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GWG Also, would you consider posting more detail to the screen? I could open an Issue.
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ben_thatmustbeme i would certainly consider that, what is happening to you?
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GWG I tried to post a test note to my test site, tiny.n9n.us.
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GWG It flashed a red bar that said Error
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GWG I have no idea.
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Works, but returns an error and doesn't classify as a like. https://tiny.n9n.us/
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: Some of this may be Micropub for WordPress, but it still shouldn't return an error.
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, probably. I just don't have time to work on it now. I was trying to keep mobilepub up to the latest micropub spec, so it could be some incompatibility in that. by the way, setting up your own copy of mobilepub is literally just tossing it on to anywhere that renders php and setting up one config file
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ben_thatmustbeme if you want to try messing with it yourself
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: That is my next step. Might get you a PR
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ben_thatmustbeme i really need to set up a proper logging in it
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ben_thatmustbeme i had some testing stuff but never actually added anything
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GWG Wait...I store the object you sent in an array.
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GWG Micropub Data: a:1:{s:8:"micropub";s:8:"endpoint";} a:6:{s:7:"mp-type";s:4:"note";s:1:"h";s:5:"entry";s:9:"mp-action";s:6:"create";s:7:"content";s:12:"I like this?";s:7:"like-of";s:27:"http://voxpelli.com/social/";s:9:"published";s:25:"2016-07-22T11:29:50-04:00";}"
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GWG ben_thatmustIf it is a like...why is mb-type set as a note?
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voxpelli GWG: I think mp-type is a non-standard attribute that ben_thatmustbeme has added
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GWG voxpelli: It is...but Micropub for WordPress was pre-draft standard and does recognize the attempt to set an explicit type...otherwise it does implicit.
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voxpelli GWG: I sniff for features instead
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voxpelli so I do purely implicit
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GWG voxpelli: The Micropub logic is that if you explicitly say something, it overrides implicit.
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GWG Micropub for WordPress, that is.
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GWG What is like?
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GWG Checking in here.
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GWG Oh well
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voxpelli !tell aaronpk Loqi seems to be partially dead – doesn't respond to "What is *?" and doesn't import tweets?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG ben_thatmust: Did you catch that?
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www.rmendes.net edited /like (+1120) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added my use case" (view diff)
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aaronpk what is a reply?
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Loqi aaronpk: petermolnar left you a message 7 hours, 21 minutes ago: Loqi is not respoding, nor following URLs
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Loqi aaronpk: voxpelli left you a message 1 hour, 19 minutes ago: Loqi not matching tweets with "indie web" or "indie web camp"? Used a bit: https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Indie%20Web%22
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Loqi aaronpk: voxpelli left you a message 40 minutes ago: Loqi seems to be partially dead – doesn't respond to "What is *?" and doesn't import tweets?
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Loqi A reply (or comment) is a kind of post that is a text (typically, though photos are possible too) response to some other post, that makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post https://indieweb.org/reply
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aaronpk looks fine?
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aaronpk ah I didn't whitelist the redirected indieweb.org/irc URLs
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voxpelli what is like?
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voxpelli ^ I guess we forgot the "a" :P
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voxpelli aaronpk: did you try http://www.jasonclient.org/? I think someone here did. Looks pretty neat to prototype native IndieWeb experiences on iOS
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aaronpk oh i saw that, haven't played with it yet tho
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aaronpk hm yeah i should try something with that for sure
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voxpelli haven't figured out how it can interact with share sheets / custom URL:s yet
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voxpelli aaronpk: there are some example Twitter clients: http://www.jasonclient.org/gallery/show/index.html?id=103
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aaronpk wow that's a bizarre syntax
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voxpelli indeed :)
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aaronpk voxpelli: there was also a bug in the link-preview script for Loqi
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aaronpk so that should work again :)
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aaronpk http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/sharing-from-the-indieweb-on-mobile-android-with-apps-and
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Loqi [Chris Aldrich] Sharing from the #IndieWeb on Mobile (Android) with Apps and @WithKnown 4 min read I've been doing some work to find a better, easier, and cleaner way to share content, lik...
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aaronpk woo
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voxpelli aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 1077 karma (4 in this channel)
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aaronpk Loqi is essentially a bunch of web hooks now, so it is possible for one feature to be broken and the rest be unaffected
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voxpelli neat, isolating different parts is very nice
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aaronpk very much modeled after the way Slackbot works
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voxpelli aaronpk: still on a server or Lambda-style even?
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GWG aaronpk: Web hooks? Fun
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aaronpk the core IRC process is in Ruby, and that's on my server. most of the functionality is in a small API also running on that server but written in PHP
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aaronpk but I could definitely write a Lambda function and add that as a web hook
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aaronpk the memes are from a different API, written in Ruby
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tantek petermolnar: looks like I've been using the ^n syntax for a while for end notes, e.g. http://tantek.com/2011/047/t2/facebook-users-photos-how-many-events
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Loqi tantek: petermolnar left you a message 5 hours, 32 minutes ago: I'm trying to write a regex, that could match /em/ text, but not URLs and would allow /em text with / inside/ and I'm failing, especially when a text contains relative urls; maybe this is the reason why em is represented by another char in most syntaxes?
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] #Facebook: 500+ million users^1, 100+ million photos uploaded per day^2. Anyone know how many events? Citations: Facebook's press pages and blog: 1^https://www.facebook.com/press/info.php?statistics 2^https://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=40383858...
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tantek petermolnar I don't think the regexes work for anything beyond URL / @-name matching
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tantek all other parsing / conversion I'm doing for my Markdown fork is done in procedural code, e.g. image / text linking
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tantek !tell petermolnar earliest use of multiple ^n (e.g. ^1 ^2) end notes/links I found on my site, from 2010-12-05: http://tantek.com/2010/339/t2/trailer-demo-tron-evolution-xbox-360 enough of a self-publishing plain text pattern that I'll likely use that in my markdown fork
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] after watching trailer^1 and E3 demo^2, ordering TRON Evolution for XBOX 360 http://ttk.me/i/a/B9EFnW videos: 1^http://youtu.be/rxIR9wlQS_w 2^http://youtu.be/M3dHhPmfSpw...
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tantek (I thought for sure I had actually posted about explicitly using that syntax, but I can't find any explicit post about it, it's like I just started doing it, probably because I'd seen it somewhere)
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ben_thatmustbeme gwg, you are correct, there is currently no check to set explicit type for like
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: But you do set it for note? Why not just leave it unset?
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ben_thatmustbeme the default is note
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ben_thatmustbeme so on my server side i check for things like if a video is attached or if is-like is set, or if a photo is attached
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ben_thatmustbeme really the only thing i use mp-type for anymore is for checkin vs note
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ben_thatmustbeme i could feel free to add mp-type=like though
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ben_thatmustbeme s/i could/
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ben_thatmustbeme s/i could//
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ben_thatmustbeme bah
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ben_thatmustbeme feel free to create a PR for it
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ben_thatmustbeme the code base is pretty tiny
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tantek no need for explicit type for like because presence of "like-of" is enough for that
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: I was thinking the other way. Remove it and only add it if necessary.
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tantek re: checkin, I think aaronpk has convinced me it is a different enough "thing" to deserve either its own property or perhaps even its own top level explicit object (e.g. like events have h-event, and interestingly, a checkin is very similar to an event)
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GWG tantek: That was what I was proposing. The way my code is set up, an explicit type always overrides an implicit type, on the theory of intent of the user. But in ben's case, it isn't the type he intended.
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aaronpk sidenote: I can't wait to figure this out cause then I will be able to finally add checkins to my site
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ben_thatmustbeme wait, are you still on the fence about that
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ben_thatmustbeme its been like a year hasn't it?
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GWG aaronpk: I will follow your lead...you have vocabulary I like for many things
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tantek aaronpk oh dang didn't realize this was blocking for you ok
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme: It's not a fence so much as a moat
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aaronpk it's been many years :)
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tantek ben_thatmust: on which fence about what?
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ben_thatmustbeme if he should do checkins as an explicit type or not
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aaronpk yeah it's blocking me for implementing checkins, but adding checkins is also a pretty significant amount of work so I can't jump right into it right now anyway
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tantek ben_thatmust: it's not either or, there are more options
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ben_thatmustbeme i believe he was debating that when he was rewriting his site at IWC MIT 2015
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tantek artificialdichotomy--
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Loqi artificialdichotomy has -1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm not saying it is tantek.. but thats the debate he was having
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ben_thatmustbeme if i remember correctly
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tantek I thought it was a question of an explicit property, and that explicit object came later
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tantek s/object/object thoughts
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tantek Loqi?
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tantek :crickets"
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ben_thatmustbeme Loqi, property or object?
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Loqi object
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ben_thatmustbeme drops the mic
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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tantek.com edited /Template:sparkline (-1) "update image alignment to fit better with new (since IWS) wiki theme" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2016-07-27-homebrew-website-club (+140) "/* San Francisco */ add events" (view diff)
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