2016-07-26 UTC
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# 14:04 petermolnar I think I've made my decision to move my webmention handler out of wordpress # 14:12 petermolnar I was thinking to do the same, but instead of putting the received mentions in a db, output them into text files # 14:12 cweiske you'd just have to provide a different callback instead of DbStorage chrisaldrich, KevinMarks and tantek joined the channel
# 15:48 aaronpk darn, tantek, now i'm questioning my photo album implementation and it's pointed out a limitation of micropub # 15:49 aaronpk if my photo album posts are an h-entry that have several h-entry children which are the individual photos, then... # 15:50 aaronpk in order to add photos to the album, it would follow that a micropub request would need to say "add this URL to the children of this h-entry" # 15:50 aaronpk but there's no place to add children, since the micropub request normally manipulates properties of the h-entry # 15:54 tantek right, we have used h-entry children as an implicit list, rather than having each one be a p-item or u-item inside the parent h-entry # 15:55 tantek note that we do explicitly list nested comments as their own property values # 15:55 aaronpk that's true. that's in order to differentiate them from the list of "likes" and "reposts" etc # 15:58 aaronpk the equivalent h-entry post would be an h-entry with several values for the "photo" property that are URLs to the jpg directly # 15:59 aaronpk so another way to represent the photo album post would be to have the photo property contain a bunch of h-entry objects instead of just a jpg URL # 16:00 tantek though I suppose that raises a different question, which is how is an album qualitatively different from a multi-photo post? # 16:00 aaronpk well, if I didn't have to first solve the mf2 representation of this I would post an example on my site :P # 16:02 aaronpk an album is a specific ordering of photo posts, where each photo in the album can stand alone and have its own properties such as name, tags, etc # 16:03 tantek how did you jump from "qualitatively" to "mf2 representation"? # 16:03 tantek so an album is a special case of a collection post? # 16:07 tantek sounds like that definition could be expanded a bit with a few more specifics beyond "collection" # 16:08 tantek and clearly needs a "Silo Examples" section with those links! # 16:16 aaronpk side note, I really like how the flickr API handles specifying the order of photos within an album # 16:17 tantek is that something you think applies to micropub? # 16:18 aaronpk it certainly could. what's particularly interesting about it to me is that it doesn't require using integers or IDs to make the ordering, and also works on just a subset of items in a collection # 16:19 aaronpk it would actually work with micropub right now on any property that contains multiple values # 16:20 aaronpk right now the h-entry vocabulary doesn't really talk about what the ordering of values means, so we haven't had this come up yet # 16:21 tantek in general, specific vocabularies should minimize what they "talk about" # 16:21 tantek can you capture that bit of "would actually work with micropub" as brainstorming or how-to on the /album page along with the silo examples and expansion of what an album is? # 16:22 aaronpk yeah, but we don't even really talk about document order # 16:22 aaronpk like, does the ordering of the category values mean anything? probably not # 16:23 tantek the parsing spec does because it works in document order, and adds to item / property arrays accordingly, which are ordered # 16:23 tantek order is preserved from document to JSON representation, that's the point # 16:23 aaronpk yeah, i just mean that i've never heard any talk about what ordering of those items means, regardless of the json representation # 16:24 tantek by default implementations seem to preserve that kind of thing for display order # 16:25 tantek I'm not sure what else you mean by "what ordering ... means" # 16:25 aaronpk the order of photos in an album is significant, since it changes the way someone interacts with the album # 16:25 aaronpk the ordering of tags is less significant, and i certainly have not used the ordering of tags to mean anything # 16:26 tantek sure, like the order of paragraphs is signficant :) # 16:26 tantek anyway, at least capture what you figured out above already. # 16:36 aaronpk back to my current challenge. is an album best represented by having the photos be "children" of the album h-entry? if so, how do I translate that to micropub? if not, is there an h-entry property that makes sense to list the photos? # 16:40 tantek the larger question there is, would it be generally beneficial for micropub to be able to add/remove from the children of a microformat? # 16:40 tantek my instinct says yes, in general if there's a capability in microformats, that it would make sense to reflect that in micropub chrisaldrich joined the channel
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# 18:56 tantek ^^^ that's what happened when I tried to lookup docs on respec. Yet another silo with random outages. # 19:00 GWG This may be crazy, but what about using h-feed for a collection of photo posts? # 19:01 GWG But I figured I would point out that it is an assembly of h-entrys # 19:03 GWG I didn't want to overuse collection # 19:05 GWG I think the tern I was looking for was set. # 19:06 tantek in that case then no because collection posts do often have an order semantic, and sets are not ordered # 19:08 GWG I feel that figuring out how to group things together is something that I care about though # 19:09 GWG But I am nowhere near building them # 19:11 GWG For example, I would like to get to linking geographical data to notes and photos from a trip create a trip report. # 19:13 GWG But I haven't gotten the building blocks to be close. rMdes_ joined the channel
# 19:21 GWG How many people use Bridgy Publish? Silo.pub? Etc. # 19:24 GWG My immediate plans involve enhancing my workflow to make posting smoother. # 19:26 GWG So that involves a combination of improving my POSSE support, and linking Bridgy Publish to Micropub to expand my ability to have alternative posting UIs. # 19:27 GWG I wanted to overcome my second thoughts about posting notes. # 19:28 tantek GWG, I greatly sympathize. I would love to hear what kinds of second thoughts you have, as I wonder if I have similar hesitations. # 19:29 GWG tantek, to quote 1776, "Is anybody there? Does anybody care?" # 19:30 aaronpk I'm pretty happy with my posting flow, but I still need to do some work to improve my ability to quickly reply to people # 19:31 GWG My Twitter POSSE is almost always off on presentation, as is my Facebook. # 19:32 tantek GWG, I spent A LOT (way too much?) time worrying about my Twitter POSSE presentation # 19:32 GWG And if I switch fully to Bridgy Publish, I create an external dependency and I need to migrate my data. # 19:32 tantek but it did/does mean I wrote/write a lot of custom code to POSSE to Twitter # 19:33 tantek notes that is. I do my own note POSSEing. I let Bridgy Publish POSSE photos & videos # 19:33 GWG I am thinking that I need to update my Bridgy Publish code to better understand WordPress loicm and tantek joined the channel
# 20:53 KevinMarks An example of ordering being preserved being useful is the h-recipe markup # 20:54 KevinMarks Ordering within a field type is preserved, but not between types # 20:55 KevinMarks Because key order is not defined, you can't preserve ingredients being before instructions except by convention # 20:56 aaronpk that's true, the key order does not reflect document order # 20:56 aaronpk it's also not that important since normally things that consume the JSON know what they're looking for and do things in their own order # 20:56 KevinMarks And if you interleave ingredients and instructions, they'll get pulled out into their own key list, unless you make them sub recipes # 20:57 KevinMarks Also, php does preserve key addition order, so if you are working in php you may not see the issues # 20:58 aaronpk the parser doesn't preserve the document order of the keys though, it adds keys in its own order # 20:58 tantek kevinmarks how does php preserve property order across properties when there are multiple instances? # 20:59 tantek also s/field/property please - even if the intent is the same, using the precise terms will help make it clear # 20:59 aaronpk no he means that an array in php like ['foo'=>'bar','zoo'=>'zar'] will always have the key 'foo' first. that's not true in other languages # 20:59 aaronpk in particular, Go intentionally returns the properties in random order each time they're accessed to ensure people don't make assumptions about property order # 21:00 aaronpk IMO it's not super interesting to talk about mf2 JSON in the abstract anyway. # 21:00 KevinMarks I had this with using Html5lib to parse and fix html, and the property order gets juggled # 21:01 aaronpk things that consume h-entry comments are expecting a handful of properties and they're going to insert the values into their own HTML templates. so it doesn't matter what order the properties are returned in. # 21:01 aaronpk we don't have a lot of examples of things consuming h-recipe so we don't have a lot to talk about there yet # 21:02 tantek kevinmarks what diffs what fixes? this is too abstract a conversation Loqi and aaronpk joined the channel
# 22:16 tantek gets lost in the latest rewrite of Twitter's docs # 22:20 tantek.com edited /relmeauth (+253) "/* Troubleshooting */ update specifics of what Twitter calls things, link to the page to check for a Callback URL, link to more docs" (
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# 23:22 gRegorLove It redirects for me but inspector is showing 200 and no Location: header. odd. # 23:39 gRegorLove curl shows 301, Chrome and Firefox shows 200. Cache disabled and logging is on. # 23:44 gRegorLove No, it's going to the destination page, address bar is correct. # 23:44 aaronpk lol they really mean it. both a <meta> refresh tag, and a javascript redirect. # 23:45 aaronpk so that if they want to disable the redirect, they can return a different body # 23:45 gRegorLove If only there were an HTTP status code for a Temporary Redirect # 23:47 gRegorLove So I suspect that's what's happening with the indiewebify.me. It's getting the 200 response from the rel-me lib
petermolnar cweiske, are you around?
cweiske petermolnar, usage in stapibas is https://github.com/cweiske/stapibas/blob/master/src/stapibas/Feed/PingUrls.php#L83
Loqi A multi-photo is like a photo post, except just with multiple adjacent photos, either in a series, or tiled / arranged in some layout https://indieweb.org/multi-photo
tantek aaronpk: no need to hypothesize, we have examples :D https://indieweb.org/multi-photo#IndieWeb_Examples
aaronpk well here's the kind of thing i'm thinking of from my flickr account https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/sets/72157634420147440
tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-07-26-github-no-server-available.png]]""
KevinMarks An example of ordering being preserved being useful is the h-recipe markup
gRegorLove I think that indiewebify.me rel-me verification might be from https://github.com/indieweb/rel-me/blob/master/RelMe.php#L123