#dev 2016-08-03

2016-08-03 UTC
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aaronpk agreed, especially since now that the IG API is locked down we can't even really use it for relmeauth signin
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aaronpk you'd have to get your app approved before you can even use the API for authenticating people
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Another indiewebify.me PR for when deployment gets fixed :) https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/pull/50
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bear if your code uses libcurl ... https://marc.ttias.be/oss-security/2016-08/msg00024.php
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petermolnar I finally figured a way to get rid of the idiotic {filename}-{width}x{height}.{ext} naming convention of resized images in WordPress... one step closer to create a static generator of my own, probably backed with micropub
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voxpelli Added a feature request for Micropub support here: https://github.com/joemccann/dillinger/issues/555
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GWG Morning
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GWG petermolnar: You actually committed with a message "warping the plugin according to my needs"?
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petermolnar hm?
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petermolnar which plugin?
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GWG I'm working on upgrading Bridgy Publish and I looked at your fork and iamwebrocker's fork.
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petermolnar oh, that one
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petermolnar yes
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petermolnar I wasn't planning to push those upstream
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petermolnar I was mostly testing if it would do what I'd like it to do
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GWG I'm making changes to the structure anyway based on changes to Bridgy.
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GWG Since I wrote it, Instagram is gone, Flickr is in, more publication options are available...
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GWG So, I figured I'd try to add in some of the feedback I got as part of the changes. The other part is setting up a way for Micropub to trigger it or any other arbitrary POSSE plugin.
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tantek good morning #indieweb-dev!
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petermolnar by the way, that statement of mine - fixing WP media management - turned out to be an iceberg and at the moment I hate WP media management ever more
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petermolnar hi tantek
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tantek backs away from the WP discussion
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GWG tantek: Good morning, tantek.
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Loqi rise and shine!
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petermolnar tantek, nah, nothing serious
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petermolnar I had to dive into wp-admin and wp-includes and the horror shook me to my core
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GWG tantek: petermolnar is just having continuing his love-hate relationship with WordPress.
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GWG petermolnar: Your core or their Core?
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petermolnar my core :D
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petermolnar gawd, there are so many layers there
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petermolnar there Core
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petermolnar I can't write
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petermolnar sorry
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petermolnar _their_ Core is layer upon layer, with cross-references, missing filters, and tonnes of semi- or fully hardcoded string concats
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petermolnar it's a monster
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GWG You would have liked the guy who showed up in the Core Slack channel offering to rewrite WordPress for them.
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GWG He'd rewrite the whole thing to make it better, but they'd have to maintain it afterward.
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tantek GWG, since it's open source, the right answer is to tell the guy, "Go for it! And demonstrate your rewrite using your own primary personal site!"
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petermolnar I'm not a rookie :); I have seen similar, old code, which became creatures of their own to handle _every_ possible scenario
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tantek either that gets them to reconsider, or they end up actually producing something new and awesome and moving the community forward
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GWG tantek: Their response was that he might be overscoping. Maybe he wants to pick one aspect and work on that.
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petermolnar GWG did you know the admin media manager is filled up using underscore templates with monsterous PHP-to-JSON mappings?
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GWG petermolnar: Yes, I've heard people comment that the fact that only one developer set up and committed most of that initiated a change in process that requires more peer review in future.
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GWG I'm not touching that code with a ten meter pole.
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tantek GWG, selfdogfooding is a good way to cause selfcorrection of overscoping
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tantek either people reduce their scope and ship, or they don't
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petermolnar I wanted to create cache folders for downsized images using the name of the image size, and for frontend, I succeeded rather well
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tantek and it's self-evident that they've overscoped
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GWG tantek: Good point.
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petermolnar turned out the admin is not using the same filters as the frontend... that is why I ended up looking at that code and ended up reverting my stuff
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GWG I failed at trying to get Linkback improvements as a feature project because I couldn't explain scope.
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GWG And Linkbacks are a relatively minor part of WordPress.
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tantek GWG, it's a big reason we have selfdogfooding as a principle here, it is a very strong reinforcer of minimalism and a strong discourager of architecture astronomy
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GWG I still have problems where my dreams and reality don't mix.
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tantek GWG, it's good to have dreams, don't let go
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tantek just take them one piece at a time as you turn them into your reality
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petermolnar dreams are hard: the majority of dreams are more of feelings and it's a tricky task to turn them into actionable points
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GWG Look at the example from a few minutes ago. I'm trying to upgrade my Bridgy Publish plugin. Why? Because I want to be able to POSSE with Micropub and I need at least one POSSE plugin to use to develop the interconnections...then the same connections could be used for other plugins.
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GWG In order to do that, I have to overcome the reasons why I didn't switch to Bridgy Publish from SNAP.
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miklb just throwing it out there, but if anyone is looking for a php based publishing platform to hack on, Habari is ripe for IndieWeb features https://github.com/habari/habari
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tantek what is Habari?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Habari" yet. Would you like to create it?
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miklb Habari is a php based blogging platform based on OOP and MVC architecture
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Habari (+105) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by miklb" (view diff)
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tantek oh dear OOP
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tantek what is OOP?
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Loqi The object-oriented-programming antipattern is the excessive / unnecessary use of object-oriented-programming (OOP) and OOP techniques when simple procedural functions would have sufficed, with less overhead, fewer files to navigate around, fewer indirections to follow while debugging, etc https://indieweb.org/OOP
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tantek what is MVC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "MVC" yet. Would you like to create it?
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miklb.com edited /Habari (+56) "add link" (view diff)
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aaronpk I usually write OOP code, but it isn't exactly a selling point when describing a publishing platform IMO
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tantek yeah
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miklb I'd say Habari was still left in a state that's it is still more geared for hackers than general users, though it's quite capable of running a blog as is.
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gRegorLove miklb: Are you running Habari? I thought someone here recently was using it.
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gRegorLove Or maybe it just came up in the homepage redesign conversation
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miklb gRegorLove I switched away beginning of this year to Jekyll
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gRegorLove Ah
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miklb I am a core comitmter blah, blah
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miklb s/comitmer/committer
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miklb I have thought about hacking some IndieWeb stuff into it, but am still scratching itches on Jekyll so it's low priority. But if anyone is looking for a solid php based code base, that is database agnostic, it's worth taking a look at
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voxpelli aaronpk: it may be a selling point when the dominating tools on the platform are WordPress and Drupal ;)
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aaronpk voxpelli: 😂
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gRegorLove Probably worth listing yourself under IndieWeb Examples, just note "former"
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miklb there is one design in Habari that is a bit antithesis of IndieWeb in that it actually supports pulling content in FROM silos, rather than push OUT
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miklb but the "silo" feature could easily be adapted I believe to do the reverse
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miklb anyway, just wanted to throw it out there, since I see a lot of complaints about other php based tools
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tantek miklb - yeah, antithesis is probably a bit strong, I mean we do have /PESOS defined which is exactly that (pulling content in FROM silos) even if we actively *prefer* /POSSE
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tantek but in some (many?) cases, PESOS is the only practical thing
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tantek e.g. IG :/
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www.erskine.co.uk edited /2016/Brighton (+55) "Added Erik Erskine to participants" (view diff)
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aaronpk for me the main benefit of PESOS is to be able to use the tools/apps of a silo and take advantage of the fact they continue to make improvements to their interfaces
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aaronpk which is why i made ownyourgram and keep using it
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miklb tantek sure, and at the time, the community decided that it made sense to offer the ability to pull from places (i.e. Flickr or Youtube) easily
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miklb heh, just saw the def of OOP. Someone has some feels about it I see
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aaronpk wow pivotal has a pretty thorough article on it
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miklb it?
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aaronpk https://blog.pivotal.io/labs/labs/all-evidence-points-to-oop-being-bullshit
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tantek expects similar articles in the future for SPA, various JS-only frameworks, etc.
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bear "Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have originated in California — Edsger W. Dijkstra" love that
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KevinMarks_ Modelling the world as hierarchy is often suspect
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aaronpk that's why I like php's new "Traits"
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aaronpk where you can pull in some functionality into a class, and use it in other classes as well, totally not hierarchical
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KevinMarks_ Is that like Go's interfaces?
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aaronpk i'm not familiar enough with Go to know
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tantek what is a framework?
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Loqi A framework is a collection of reusable software that allows a person to use some feature/functionality in some problem domain without building it from scratch https://indieweb.org/framework
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tantek more like: http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/124162176527/the-web-platform-is-slow
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KevinMarks_ Go interfaces are defined as a list of functions. If your thing implements the functions, it implements the interface.
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KevinMarks_ https://gobyexample.com/interfaces
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aaronpk Oh that's just normal OOP interfaces
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aaronpk php has that too. But traits are like interfaces that have code
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voxpelli PHP has interfaces as well, traits provide methods that can fulfill an interface
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voxpelli So they two go hand in hand very well
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voxpelli Becomes as DRY as when one class inherits another
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cweiske.de edited /authorization-endpoint (+339) "/* Creating an Authorization Endpoint */ note about different me URLs" (view diff)
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GWG Afternoon
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gRegorLove Didn't know about PHP Traits. Interesting.
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KevinMarks_ The interesting thing about the go interfaces is that there is no "uses" or declaration, the linker just works it out if the method signatures match
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www.boffosocko.com edited /site-deaths (+566) "/* Past */ Readlists RIP 7/31/16" (view diff)
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ChrisAldrich And darn it all if Readlists didn't manage to die with a tiny amount of my data... Fortunately I had an old export with the most important part.
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aaronpk bummer
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kevinmarks.com uploaded /File:sealion.png "mirrored from http://wondermark.com/1k62/"
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GWG Another surprise problem
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kevinmarks.com edited /sealioning (+30) "add cartoon image" (view diff)
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ChrisAldrich I didn't use the Readlists often, but it was nice for putting together quick ebook versions of web pages. I have some high end tools for doing this, but their web implementation was stupidly easy...
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+75) "Picturelife.com near miss" (view diff)
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aaronpk i just listened to that episode!
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KevinMarks_ That was scary. It made me want to backup my photos to more clouds
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+158) "Archived Coinkite Bitcoin web wallet" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+64) "Archived Experience Project" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+108) "/* Experience Project */ archived blog post" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+20) "Archived Livemocha" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+209) "Archived Picasa, added album archive link" (view diff)
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cweiske how I'd love that indieauth.com would show the response of something horribly wrong.
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aaronpk say what?
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cweiske indieauth.com only said that something went horribly wrong
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cweiske but didn't show me the response of my server
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aaronpk oh
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+145) "Archived MetaMind" (view diff)
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aaronpk that usually means something threw an exception
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cweiske no, my server sent a 400 back
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cweiske which is an error on my part, but i'd liked to have seen the output
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cweiske now I had to add debug file prints into my code to get to the issue
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aaronpk oops that's this issue isn't it https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/93
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+219) "Archived revolv, added quote about refunds" (view diff)
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aaronpk but yes file an issue to ask indieauth.com to show you the response from your endpoint when it gets an unexpected response
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aaronpk that would definitely be a more helpful thing it could do
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cweiske I already added a workaround for #93 in my code
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aaronpk soon i will have time to get to work on some of these old issues
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+148) "Archived Poetica" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Phew. So many site-deaths :(
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cweiske ah. now commentpara.de's auth server is working, just not with indieauth.com because of
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cweiske The authorization server replied with me=http://commentpara.de/user/2.htm but we were expecting http://commentpara.de/
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cweiske (which is already filed)
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aaronpk nice. you don't need that to keep making progress on it tho right?
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cweiske no no
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cweiske quill works fine with it
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aaronpk cause a posting client like quill doesn't end up using indieauth.com
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cweiske I already created a comment with quill: http://commentpara.de/comment/8.htm
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aaronpk haha!
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Loqi aaronpk: lol
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+29) "/* Upcoming */ link Togethera" (view diff)
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aaronpk you can test how the comment looks by sending replies to posts on webmention.rocks
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cweiske thanks for the hint.
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cweiske will do as soon as I implement linkback sending
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+18) "Archived ThinkUp" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /ThinkUp (+0) "past tense" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /content_addressing (+430) "/* old weirdness */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /indieauth-for-login (-2) "/* Authorization Process */ token -> code" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ The more I look at content addressing, the more weirdness I find
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tantek sounds worthy of incubation
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gRegorLove GWG: Have any experience/recommendations with WP plugins for a better page admin area?
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@SecNewsBot Hacker News - IndieAuth: Sign in with your domain name https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/760964234909974530)
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aaronpk uhoh
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aaronpk https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12221946
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aaronpk nice "How come I never heard about it, this seems like a better successor to openID."
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tantek hah
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tantek The expression "how come I never heard about it" is dripping with entitlement
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loqi.me edited /OOP (+90) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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aaronpk wait, the person who submitted it asked that question! lol
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gRegorLove Wat. We can add sections with page << section?
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Loqi There was an error: Array
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aaronpk just adding things to the "see also" section