#dev 2016-12-14

2016-12-14 UTC
tantek, KevinMarks, KevinMarks_, cweiske, KartikPrabhu, j4y_funabashi and Sebsel joined the channel
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petermolnar why << http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1717
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loqi.me edited /why (+43) "petermolnar added "http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1717" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1717" to the "See Also" section of /why
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petermolnar markdown << http://programminghistorian.org/lessons/sustainable-authorship-in-plain-text-using-pandoc-and-markdown
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Loqi ok, I added "http://programminghistorian.org/lessons/sustainable-authorship-in-plain-text-using-pandoc-and-markdown" to the "See Also" section of /markdown
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loqi.me edited /markdown (+105) "petermolnar added "http://programminghistorian.org/lessons/sustainable-authorship-in-plain-text-using-pandoc-and-markdown" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /h-review (+251) "+cweiske" (view diff)
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Zegnat Is there any example markup for a /checking? /bookmark has a nice little example that I used before (https://licit.li/585140d8bf497), but /checking doesn’t seem to have any convention
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Zegnat I would love to do a checkin for our HWC location
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aaronpk we haven't totally figured out checkins yet
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Zegnat aaah, that’s too bad, hahaha
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Loqi rofl
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aaronpk very close though
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aaronpk there should be some examples on /checkin
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/checkin#IndieWeb_Examples
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Zegnat I was mostly hoping for a /bookmark#How_to_markup like section ;)
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aaronpk ah yeah, i don't think it's settled enough for that yet
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tantek yeah :(
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Zegnat Darn
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aaronpk i have a feeling 2017 is going to be the year we finally figure it out
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tantek there's still time left in 2016!
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tantek big question right now is whether it should be done with a new property on h-entry , or a new h-* top level object. leaning towards brainstorming the former
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aaronparecki.com edited /posts (+36) "/* Kinds of Posts */ +review" (view diff)
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aaronpk what is ⭐️?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "⭐️" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk ⭐️ is [[review]]
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /⭐️ (+19) "prompted by aaronpk and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /h-review (+89) "⭐️" (view diff)
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Zegnat I kinda need to figure out checkins, yes. Checkins and bookmarks are the 2 I am planning to fully handroll from 2017-01-01
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tantek hah! I thought ⭐️ was favorite!
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Zegnat What is ??
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Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing, tagging, or quoting from its contents https://indieweb.org/%F0%9F%94%96
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Zegnat Cool, didn’t know those worked
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tantek :D
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aaronpk me too but favorite had ? and ❤️
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aaronpk also can't think of a better one for review
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tantek somehow I left it open for future use by review :)
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j4y_funabashi checkins could be an awesome little micropub client
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aaronpk here's a minimal example based on h-entry p-checkin http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20161214173309999
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j4y_funabashi any reason location cant be used?
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aaronpk lol yes
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aaronpk that's basically the reason we haven't settled on markup yet
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aaronpk one aspect i haven't figured out yet is both showing the venue's website but also linking to my URL for the venue
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aaronpk because i want my own venue URLs to be able to show all my checkins at a place
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aaronpk i think that's the main thing i'm stuck on with checkins right now
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Zegnat I kinda like the h-as-checkin, because it would allow me to use the exact same h-entry with location info as both a checkin or not a checkin
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Zegnat So I could have a photo post with with location, just because, but I can also mark it as being a checkin
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j4y_funabashi sorry missed the discussion on location is it online anywhere?
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Zegnat Is there any material on the h-as-* syntax? Or is it scrapped?
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aaronpk Zegnat: https://indieweb.org/checkin#h-as-checkin_explicit_object
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Zegnat sebsel and I are mostly brainstorming at HWC, j4y_funabashi ;)
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aaronpk j4y_funabashi: i'm trying to find more detail, but some is https://indieweb.org/checkin#just_a_note_with_a_location
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Zegnat Does *-as-* specifically mean ActivityStream? I was assuming it was an extra way to define post type. (Think aliases in SQL “AS”)
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aaronpk yeah it originally came from ActivityStreams
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Zegnat From the brainstorming: I kinda feel like the entire post is my checkin. Not the hcard of my location.
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Zegnat So to me it doesn’t make sense to have a specified p-checkin
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tantek j4y_funabashi: yes several times in IRC
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tantek in the past few months
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tantek hasn't been archived to the wiki yet - on my list :/
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j4y_funabashi cheers guys, I assumed it had already been discussed. it is certainly a tough one
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j4y_funabashi Zegnat: I agree, checkins seem like a post with properties of their own, not just a property of an h-entry
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Zegnat so there .h-entry.h-as-checking>.p-location makes sense to me
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j4y_funabashi h-card for the venue, photo(s), description/review
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Zegnat I am not sure if a review makes sense on a checkin though, you can’t really review at checkin, only after.
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Zegnat But yes, that’s my reasoning.
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j4y_funabashi ah ok
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j4y_funabashi so this is where venue's come in? as a grouping for checkins + reviews
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Zegnat And while I brainstorm, sebsel is getting actual work done.
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aaronpk if you're talking about a new top-level object, it would be just h-checkin, and wouldn't have multiple h-* classes
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Zegnat Maybe. I personally do not have a usecase for posting venues as seperate things in my feed
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aaronpk just keep in mind what the multiple h-* classes does to the parsed result of the page
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20161214175326337
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j4y_funabashi is late to the checkin party and thinking I need to add a new itch for 2017
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Zegnat Right. Hmm. So it would become either .h-entry.e-checkin or .h-checkin ...
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tantek there's insufficient case for a whole new object
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tantek because in all contexts (existing checkin apps, or checkin features on silos), checkins show up just like all other kinds of posts in people's streams
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tantek e.g. FB checkins are just another post
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tantek so that implies they are just another h-entry
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aaronpk right, they share most other properties of h-entry
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aaronpk like author, publish date, photo
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tantek so the evidence of UX implies checkins are just posts
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j4y_funabashi so what are the unique properties?
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aaronpk contrasted with h-cards, which have very few common properties
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aaronpk and you don't normally see h-cards in a list along with posts
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tantek j4y_funabashi: that's where it's better to re-read previous IRC discussions
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tantek sorry to not have pointers offhand
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Zegnat yes, I want my posts to just be a checkin, or not be a checkin, I agree with that tantek
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sknebel what's the microformat prefix for a boolean flag -is-checkin? :P
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j4y_funabashi tantek: ok sorry will go have a search in the logs
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Zegnat But I feel like my entire post is part of the checkin. My content and/or photos included. So I don’t really like only adding a class for it on location
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Zegnat sknebel, that’s what sebsel raised here at the table as well, feels like a boolean
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aaronpk not sure what you mean 'adding a class for it on location'
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aaronpk it's more like "because this h-entry has a p-checkin property, it should be presented as a checkin in the UI"
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Zegnat sure, but would p-checkin become synonymous with p-location? Else I will just be doing .p-checking.p-location. Or maybe even .h-entry.e-checkin
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aaronpk no, the p-checkin would *be* the location. you don't need p-location also
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aaronpk class="p-checkin h-card" which ends up with a property called "checkin" that is an h-card of the venue you checked in to
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Zegnat I don’t mind a *-checkin property. I think that’s where we need to go. But what would you expect inside the p-checkin when you request it from your parser
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Zegnat Alright, so I would have h-entry with .p-location.h-card, and then when I want to mark them as checkins I swap p-location for p-checkin
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Zegnat That gets pretty close to the aforementioned boolean/flag
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20161214173309999
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sknebel arguably shouldn't the h-card be p-location and p-checkin?
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aaronpk why?
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Zegnat not if we decide they are synonymous, sknebel, that would be applied
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Zegnat not applied... implied
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tantek sknebel, booleans rarely work well over time in formats
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sknebel it meets the meaning of p-location as well, and one less case to handle for when my application doesn't care about the difference
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tantek you typically end up wanting to extend any booleans that you end up using
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sknebel tantek: actual boolean was more of a joke
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tantek Zegnat, the " feel like my entire post is part of the checkin" feels are true for all the other kinds of posts too
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Zegnat I would be tempted to do p-checkin on h-adr or h-geo though, not just h-card. But I don’t see that being a problem
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tantek but we have u-photo, not h-photo
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Sebsel well, you can have a .p-checkin.h-card for, say, a park, and then a .p-location.h-geo of your exact location
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Sebsel but let's not make up use-cases.
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tantek u-video, not h-video etc.
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tantek the "feel of the entire post" does not make any sense as a methodology for driving format design
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aaronpk sebsel++ that's actually very reasonable
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Loqi sebsel has 1 karma in this channel (7 overall)
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aaronpk foursquare records the exact lat/lng of the checkin along with the venue
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aaronpk and they use it to make little point clouds that represent the venue
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Zegnat h-card can contain geo, but if I am in the woods, I may not want to create a h-card for a specific tree, yet still checkin. So I would reserve using h-cards for actual venues
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tantek right
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tantek named venue
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Zegnat tantek, while true, I would like the checkin property content you get back from a mf2 parser to make sense. And I am not sure I like that property being just the address.
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tantek it's akin to the photo being just the jpeg
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tantek etc.
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sknebel Zegnat: what extra info would you like?
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Zegnat But that gets us in the debate of wether u-photo should be within e-content or not ;)
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aaronpk it's not uncommon for a property to have multiple values
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tantek it makes less sense for it to have "all the info"
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tantek that's what the h-entry is for, it contains "all the info"
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sknebel and if we need an h-photo to encode details about the photo and not the post ;)
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tantek sknebel: you're welcome to document use-cases and real world examples of that if you find them
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tantek in practice those have not come up
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Zegnat sknebel: I am not sure, that’s why the “feel” ;) I think I might go with the p-checkin as special alias for p-location and see how it feels
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aaronpk right now in h-event, p-location can be an h-geo, h-card, or h-adr
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tantek zegnat, this is part of the previous IRC location discussion
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tantek p-location is the location of where the post is/was made
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Zegnat Yes, these discussions tend to circle, that’s probably why we don’t really have nailed it down yet, tantek
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tantek which is different than what the post may be *about*
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tantek that's for tags
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tantek e.g. person-tags
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tantek or a location-tag
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tantek wherein it's a u-category to location
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tantek e.g. I come home from vacation but post a photo from vacation
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tantek the p-location is home, the location-tag is of whatever the photo was of
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tantek Zegnat, no they circled for a while, then we figured it out
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tantek we just haven't had time to write it up yet
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tantek now they are merely repeating
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tantek not circling
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Zegnat if p-location is *always* my current location, that would mostly negate checkin completely. I guess I missed the result of the previous discussion!
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tantek yes, p-location is the location from which the post was published, like the location on a tweet
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gRegorLove Someone's going to drop a link to today's logs on /checkin right, so next time we have one more reference point? :)
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Zegnat That would mean though that a checkin-after-the-fact (much like an rsvp-after-the-fact) would contain separate p-checkin and p-location data, tantek?
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aaronpk h-checkin << https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2016-12-14
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Loqi There was an error: Array
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aaronpk oops
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aaronpk checkin << https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2016-12-14
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loqi.me edited /checkin (+60) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2016-12-14" to the "See Also" section of /checkin
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tantek what is a postsquare
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Loqi postsquare (or postsq) is a portmanteau of "post" (meaning after) and "Foursquare" (the checkin service) meaning a checkin post made after the fact, that is, after the person posting it was actually at the location, or perhaps after they arrived at the location https://indieweb.org/postsquare
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tantek Zegnat ^^^
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Zegnat So I guess I should use .p-location.p-checkin.h-[card|adr|geo] if I am posting from my checkin location
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Zegnat Hmm
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Zegnat Or we have to define p-location as implied to be p-checkin unless a separate one is specified.
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sknebel other way around, right?
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Zegnat yes, sorry, p-checkin implies p-location unless otherwise specified
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loqi.me created /image_metadata (+298) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by schmarty" (view diff)
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Zegnat Alright, I have just checked in, I am happy: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flicit.li%2F58518f473dfa6
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Zegnat Hmm, I need to remove h-feed from the permalink pages
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Sebsel I have mine too :) https://seblog.nl/2016/12/14/1/checkin
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loqi.me edited /image_metadata (+32) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /metadata (+38) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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Sebsel So, we had a HWC and all we did was discussing and implementing a way to say we where there :)
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schmarty sebsel: sounds productive to me!
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aaronpk Zegnat: i was about to ask about that
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vanderven.se martijn edited /checkin (+292) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Martijn checked in!" (view diff)
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Zegnat aaronpk, I will have to fix that when I get home, I don’t currently have access to my backend code from where we are sitting
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aaronpk :nod:
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seblog.nl edited /checkin (+407) "Sebsel checked in too!" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com edited /events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club (+17) "/* London */" (view diff)
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idolstarastronomer.com edited /web_hosting (+12) "/* Virtual Private Server */ added indication that not all plans on digitalocean are $5, but that's where they start." (view diff)
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doubleloop.net created /User:Doubleloop.net (+16) "Created page with "New indiewebber!"" (view diff)
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tantek great!
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tantek Zegnat any photos from Netherlands HWC?
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hobbsy.com created /User:Hobbsy.com (+2) "Created page with "Hi"" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com created /Template:Hobbsy.com (+33) "Created page with "= [http://hobbsy.com Jim Hobbs] ="" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com created /hobbsy (+29) "Redirected page to [[User:Hobbsy.com]]" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com edited /events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club (-4) "/* London */" (view diff)
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doubleloop.net edited /User:Doubleloop.net (+41) (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club (+138) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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doubleloop.net created /doubleloop (+33) "Redirected page to [[User:Doubleloop.net]]" (view diff)
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Zegnat tantek: yes, we posed for a shot together right before leaving
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Zegnat It will go on the wiki when I am home
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doubleloop.net edited /events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club (+17) "/* London */" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com created /Page:hobbsy (+29) "Redirected page to [[User:Hobbsy.com]]" (view diff)
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doubleloop.net edited /User:Doubleloop.net (+34) "/* Neil Mather */" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com created /Template:hobbsy (+160) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/431782859339075585/NTLU2SUk.jpeg}} [[Hobbsy.com|hobbsy]]</span>"" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com created /Hobbsy.com (+2) "Created page with "hi"" (view diff)
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doubleloop.net created /Template:Doubleloop.net (+145) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|http://doubleloop.net/images/profile.jpg}} [[User:Doubleloop.net|Neil Mather]]</span>"" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com edited /Template:hobbsy (+3) (view diff)
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doubleloop.net created /Template:doubleloop (+145) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|http://doubleloop.net/images/profile.jpg}} [[User:doubleloop.net|Neil Mather]]</span>"" (view diff)
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doubleloop.net edited /User:Doubleloop.net (+18) "/* Neil Mather */" (view diff)
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mey.vn edited /Template:hotzeplotz (-21) (view diff)
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hobbsy.com deleted /Hobbsy.com "content was: "hi" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Hobbsy.com|Hobbsy.com]]")"
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-start.png]]""
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hobbsy.com created /Hobbsy.com (+2) "Created page with "Hi"" (view diff)
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aaronpk here they come
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barryfrost.com edited /2017-01-01-commitments (+333) "/* Commitments */ Barry's commitment" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /create (+243) "/* Silo Examples */ Amazon Reviews" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-hover-star.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-choose-star-rating.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-start-typing-review.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-insert-product-link-modal.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-insert-product-link-complete.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-add-review-headline.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-submit.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-posted.png]]""
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aaronpk whee
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aaronpk almost done
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-button.png]]""
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hobbsy.com deleted /Hobbsy.com "content was: "Hi" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Hobbsy.com|Hobbsy.com]]")"
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hobbsy.com edited /events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club (-13) "/* London */" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com edited /events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* London */" (view diff)
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hobbsy.com edited /User:Hobbsy.com (+7) (view diff)
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aaronpk seems to be wiki time
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-1-star.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-2-star.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-3-star.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:amazon-review-5-star.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com created /Amazon_Reviews (+2300) "overview of creating a review on amazon" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Amazon_Reviews (+78) "dfn" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Amazon_Reviews << [[Amazon]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Amazon]]" to the "See Also" section of /Amazon_Reviews
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loqi.me edited /Amazon_Reviews (+30) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Amazon_Reviews << [[review]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[review]]" to the "See Also" section of /Amazon_Reviews
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loqi.me edited /Amazon_Reviews (+13) "gRegorLove added "[[review]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Amazon << [[Amazon_Reviews]]
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loqi.me edited /Amazon (+21) "gRegorLove added "[[Amazon_Reviews]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Amazon_Reviews]]" to the "See Also" section of /Amazon
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www.svenknebel.de edited /image_metadata (+2039) "initial brain dump" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn uploaded /File:2016-12-14-hwc-nijmegen.jpg "Photo taken at [[events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club|Homebrew Website Club]] at Credible in Nijmegmen (the Netherlands) on 2016-12-14.From left to right: {{martijnvdven}}, {{Sebsel}}."
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vanderven.se martijn edited /events/2016-12-14-homebrew-website-club (+68) "/* Photos */ Adding the Netherlands" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Evernote (+340) "criticism" (view diff)