#dev 2017-02-17

2017-02-17 UTC
KevinMarks1, KartikPrabhu, [dgold], KevinMarks, KevinMarks_, tantek, deepbook5broo, gRegorLove, [kevinmarks] and cweiske joined the channel
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GWG Morning all
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sebsel dates in PHP are sad. strftime() does not seem to do timezones, but date() and DateTime objects don't do language.
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sebsel Should I write my own date-translations then?
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sebsel ah! found date('Z'), which is the timezone difference in seconds. I can work with that
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petermolnar dates in every programming language is sad
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derhess.de edited /events/2017-02-22-homebrew-website-club (-20) "/* West Europe */" (view diff)
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derhess.de edited /events/2017-02-22-homebrew-website-club (+33) "/* Berlin */" (view diff)
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petermolnar !tell snarfed I've merged your changes into mine in https://github.com/petermolnar/webmention-tools but I don't think my additional lookups are needed for the main branch; if you have time to check them though, and you think it would worth having only one of these, please tell me
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[keithjgrant] On indieauth.com, how does the client_id fit in?
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cweiske [keithjgrant], http://indieweb.org/authorization-endpoint#Request
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aaronpk [keithjgrant]: indieauth.com will use the client_id to look up the app info that it shows on the authorization screen
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aaronpk e.g. with a client_id of https://quill.p3k.io the screen looks like this https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-02-17-07-36-08.png
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aaronpk vs this for teacup.p3k.io https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-02-17-07-36-34.png
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[keithjgrant] Ah, cool
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[keithjgrant] Naming things is hard
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aaronpk ya
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www.svenknebel.de edited /aerobatic (+30) "not bitbucket only anymore, linkify" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de moved /aerobatic to /Aerobatic "canonical caps"
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tantek what is Aerobatic?
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Loqi Aerobatic is a static hosting service https://indieweb.org/Aerobatic
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loqi.me created /Delphi (+141) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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@ChrisAldrich @wanda_lotus IndieAuth (which uses the rel="me") needs to support the providers, which typically have a version of… http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/wanda_lotus-indieauth-which-uses-the-relme-needs-to-support-the (twitter.com/_/status/832669886757400576)
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tantek voxpelli: if you find anything that can be improved with mf2 parsing (with backcompat) of "classic" WordPress sites or themes, please make a note of it!
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tantek maybe even file an issue if you has a specific suggestion
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voxpelli tantek: can't think of anything missing in the parse, feels like one would have to try it in some IndieWeb clients to see for sure
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www.boffosocko.com created /WordPress_OpenID_plugin (+239) "prompted by tantek; basic definition, see also" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Template:WordPress (+32) "OpenID plugin" (view diff)
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tantek voxpelli: I mean in particular, is there information visually on the post page, that is missing from the parse, and if so, what information?
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aaronpk oh crap it's doing that thing again where i have two separate processes overwriting the file
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aaronpk the downsides of file storage
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tantek no
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aaronpk gotta do your own locking
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tantek you have to do that for database tables too
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aaronpk usually the database does it for you
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tantek e.g. if you have two different tables to update
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tantek you have to your own "locking" (transaction)
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tantek so they're not inconsistently updated by two different processes
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tantek like a "posts" table and a "media" table :P
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aaronpk the only similarity this problem has with a database is if i was storing all my post data in a single column
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aaronpk which means a potential file based solution to this is to separate out my syndication URLs into different files so that I can write more than one at a time without clobbering them
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aaronpk yeah i don't know how i want to solve this
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tantek do you have different syndication processes? why?
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tantek seems like one "background" syndication process would be enough
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aaronpk well what happened here was: 1) I posted from a micropub client that told my website to syndicate to facebook. That returns immediately so the client thinks it's "done". then 2) the client then syndicates it to a couple other places, and makes a micropub "edit" request to update the post to add the new syndication URLs that it created. 3) the micropub server finishes posting to facebook, and then
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aaronpk "updates" the post itself, clobbering the edit
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aaronpk i suppose i could make my micropub endpoint refresh the file from disk after it finishes its own syndication before writing the syndication URL
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tantek seems like the micropub server needs to use a request queue, and process them fifo
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tantek right!
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tantek each request needs to be handled atomically, with all file edits completed / closed, and zero state kept between (file has to be re-opened, re-read between requests)
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tantek state is for storage, not processes
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aaronpk this doesn't solve the underlying problem, i still have to run only one background process
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aaronpk but this refreshing thing would be a good idea regardless
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tantek right, typical way this is solved is to have one *storage* process that everything else talks to, and only that storage process gets to read/write to the files
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aaronpk that's probably how databases work huh
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tantek the key is keeping that storage process pretty "dumb", that is, just have it worry about consistency and time-order and that's it
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tantek yes
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aaronpk and this is the challenge of replacing a database with the filesystem :)
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tantek except with databases, the architecture astronauts decided to put in a bunch of extra crap into that process
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tantek there are other techniques
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tantek I don't plan on creating / running a storage process myself
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tantek what is 2017-03-08
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2017-03-08" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek aw I thought search would find that
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tantek wonders if we should ditch the event/ hierarchy and go flat with the HWC dates
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tantek does a date imply an event?
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tantek gRegorLove: what do you think?
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gRegorLove Not sure. My first inclination is "no", but I don't have strong feelings about it.
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tantek ok
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gRegorLove "what is happening 2017-03-08" could be an option for Loqi to search specifically for events
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gRegorLove I'm a bit distracted at the moment. Will think about it
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tantek cool. reflection is good
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gRegorLove tantek: Did you see we're doing IWC Bellingham?
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tantek oh! when?
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tantek when is IWC Bellingham?
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tantek Loqi?
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Loqi what
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gRegorLove Haha
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tantek what is IWC Bellingham?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IWC Bellingham" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove https://indieweb.org/2017/Bellingham
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Loqi nice
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tantek IWC Bellingham is /2017/Bellingham
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /IWC_Bellingham (+28) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek when is IWC Bellingham?
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Bellingham 2017 is on 2017-05-04 at TBD https://indieweb.org/IWC_Bellingham
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tantek gRegorLove++
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Loqi gregorlove has 14 karma in this channel (104 overall)
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tantek when is next-hwc?
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Meetup is on 2017-02-22 at Venue: Salon Schmück https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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gRegorLove Was going to be Seattle, but since Salt and strugee really wanted to capture the LinuxFest crowd (beforehand), we decided to do it here.
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tantek is LinuxFest in Bellingham?
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gRegorLove Yeah
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tantek cool
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gRegorLove what is LinuxFest
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "LinuxFest" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove LinuxFest is /LinuxFest_Northwest
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loqi.me created /LinuxFest (+32) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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GWG Afternoon
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GWG Gregorlove, what do people visiting Bellingham do?
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GWG My current project makes me feel dirty.
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GWG So little consistency
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gRegorLove We're nestled between the bay and the start of the mountains, so there's a lot of forests and hiking. It's gorgeous here. Quite a few breweries that I understand are good (not a beer fan myself), we have a nice waterfront park and boardwalk. Quite a few music venues, an improv theater (Ryan Stiles from Whose Line Is It Anyway?)
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gRegorLove San Juan Islands are across the bay, so a ferry ride away. I need to explore them more.
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gRegorLove Some really good coffeeshops
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GWG So.. things to do, good.
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gRegorLove Half hour from Canada
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gRegorLove ~90 to Seattle
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GWG Not that an Indiewebcamp doesn't stand on its own.
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GWG Easy airport access?
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@wanda_lotus @chrisaldrich That makes sense.. I’ll keep IndieAuth and OpenID plugins running on my site. I just need @LiveJournal to fix their OpenID. (twitter.com/_/status/832692703318011904)
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gRegorLove Yep
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gRegorLove Thinking of coming?
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tantek chrisaldrich++
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Loqi chrisaldrich has 4 karma in this channel (18 overall)
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GWG Gregorlove, my boss is keeping me busy till April. Last year he kept me busy all summer and didn't like that I was off twice in December
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GWG So I have to go somewhere
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gRegorLove Hehe
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gRegorLove Well, we'd love to have you
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GWG Why not Washington? I don't think my trip to Portland was scenic, due the heat. I was avoiding outside.
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gRegorLove Aye. It will be really mild here.
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GWG Maybe I can do Seattle too
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GWG I hear things
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GWG I have a friend in Issaquah
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gRegorLove Depending on your level of interest in LinuxFest, you could skip some of it and make a long weekend in SEA. I probably wouldn't be opposed to driving down there.
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GWG Gregorlove, I do like Linux
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GWG But I am not sure about it
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gRegorLove I've never been to a conference like that, so I'm interested to check it out.
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GWG I used to go to Southeast Linux Fest. Depends on the people and panels
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[keithjgrant] Success! I can authenticate to a Chrome extension via IndieAuth.com
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[keithjgrant] And I parked a domain for the extension, omnibear.com ?
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voxpelli pfefferle: would it be possible to have an option to keep the hentry in the original place in the plugin and just lose eg. the reply-context?
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voxpelli as some kind of compatibility mode
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voxpelli [keithjgrant]++
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Loqi keithjgrant has 1 karma in this channel (4 overall)
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pfefferle voxpelli sure
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pfefferle shouldn't be that complicated
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voxpelli I like the idea of a plugin, less likely for newcomers to mess up the classes when they hack their blog themes to look one way or another
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pfefferle voxpelli hentry on the article as default?
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voxpelli pfefferle: default could probably be the aggressive mode, and point people who feels like their theme gets broken to toggle the compatibility mode to scale back
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GWG The existing plugin could use a refresh though
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GWG I think tantek's suggestion it transfer to the Indieweb repository is a good idea. It is like the Indieweb plugin in that it is a community need
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gregorlove.com edited /Now (+83) "dfn" (view diff)
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gRegorLove what is now
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Loqi A now page is a page that tells you what a person is focused on at this point in their life https://indieweb.org/Now
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gregorlove.com edited /2017/Bellingham (+97) "/* IndieWebCamp Bellingham 2017 */ dfn" (view diff)
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gRegorLove What is IWC Bellingham?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/IWC_Bellingham
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gRegorLove What is IWC Bellingham?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/IWC_Bellingham
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gRegorLove What is 2017/Bellingham
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gRegorLove What is IWC Bellingham?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/IWC_Bellingham
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gRegorLove Argh
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gRegorLove I thought it was that the dfn was inside the h-event, so I moved it out. Still doesn't work
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gRegorLove What is IWC Bellingham?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/IWC_Bellingham
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gRegorLove what is next hwc?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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gRegorLove Ah, appears Loqi isn't looking at h-event p-summary
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tantek GWG, you may want to consider X-Ray's output as an alternative to jf2
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tantek I'm not sure how well documented X-Ray's output is, but I think aaronpk has done a decent job
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GWG tantek, I used it as a marker. I don't care about strict, just simple.
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tantek GWG, it's a good starting point
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tantek what is jf2
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Loqi jf2 is a working prototype of a simpler JSON serialization of microformats2 https://indieweb.org/jf2
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tantek what is xray
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Loqi XRay is an open source API that returns structured data for a URL by parsing microformats and following other indieweb algorithms, and is part of the p3k suite of applications https://indieweb.org/XRay
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tantek jf2 << https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay#response-format
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loqi.me edited /jf2 (+50) "tantek added "https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay#response-format" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay#response-format" to the "See Also" section of /jf2
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tantek tinbox << add to http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed new "Backward Compatibility" section with subsections "Publisher Compatibility" and "Parser Compatibility", documenting classic hAtom "hfeed" classes for publisher compat, and the corollary for Parser Compat with additional class names per https://github.com/kevinmarks/mf2py/commit/9c7ba2c051292b5dbce2a6e9378fcec46e20a94d Blogger and WordPress defaults inside hfeed
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Loqi ok, I added "add to http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed new "Backward Compatibility" section with subsections "Publisher Compatibility" and "Parser Compatibility", documenting classic hAtom "hfeed" classes for publisher compat, and the corollary for Parser Compat with additional class names per https://github.com/kevinmarks/mf2py/commit/9c7ba2c051292b5dbce2a6e9378fcec46e20a94d Blogger and WordPress defaults inside hfeed" to the "See Also" section of /tinbox
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loqi.me edited /tinbox (+413) "tantek added "add to http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed new "Backward Compatibility" section with subsections "Publisher Compatibility" and "Parser Compatibility", documenting classic hAtom "hfeed" classes for publisher compat, and the corollary for" (view diff)
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Loqi h-feed is a microformats2 draft for marking up a stream or feed of h-entry posts, like complete posts on a home page or archive pages, or summaries or other brief lists of posts. h-feed is the microformats2 update to hAtom's "hfeed". Per CC0, to th...
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tantek hmm did I overflow IRC
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tantek no that worked, just the Loqi statuses truncated
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