#dev 2017-03-01

2017-03-01 UTC
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GWG tantek, it does?
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tantek GWG see tweet ^^^ :D
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GWG Oh
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tantek aaronpk, I can't find where the Webmention spec says what to do with Fragmention target or source URLs, and I'm wondering if that's a possible extension
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tantek or frankly fragments in general
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tantek hmm
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tantek what is a fragment
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fragment" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek aha
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tantek A fragment in the context of the indieweb typically refers to a fragment identifier at the end of a URL preceded by a # but may also refer to a [[media fragment]] which may use a fragment identifier or a query string.
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tantek oops
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GWG tantek, anything promising going on?
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tantek A fragment is part of a URL in the context of the indieweb, and typically refers to a fragment identifier at the end of a URL preceded by a # but may also refer to a [[media fragment]] which may use a fragment identifier or a query string.
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loqi.me created /fragment (+269) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek GWG, the Social Web WG decided to take Micropub to PR today
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tantek made the decision that is, now it's up to W3C process / staff to take the steps to take it to PR
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tantek I believe pending one more implementation of one more feature
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tantek so that's cool
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GWG tantek, that is good. I am curious what the others will say.
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tantek similarly with Activity Streams 2, and pending an update to the draft that drops a few unimplemented vocabulary items
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tantek GWG, which others?
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GWG People unfamiliar with it
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tantek indeed!
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tantek that reminds me
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tantek aaronpk are there any editorial improvements you want to make to the summary of Micropub that may end up in the W3C blog post about it going to PR?
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tantek.com edited /fragment (+638) "brainstorming, Webmention and fragments, see also" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, in particular, is it worth mentioning create, update, and delete posts rather than just create posts here? https://micropub.net/draft/#abstract-p-1
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tantek I'll start with wiki
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tantek.com edited /Micropub (+84) "minor dfn expansion to explicitly include update & delete, post and edit, comments and likes" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, in case that helps - made some edits to https://indieweb.org/Micropub intro / dfn accordingly
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[kevinmarks] Hm did webmention not discuss fragments? I thought there was a bug about them
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sknebel right now the spec only mentions that fragments can happen and that a receiver shouldn't be confused by them
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tantek yup. the spec is thus extensible
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tantek feel free to add to https://indieweb.org/fragment#Brainstorming to describe more precisely *how* fragments should be used with webmention
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[chrisaldrich] Is that the sort of thing you mean tantek?
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[chrisaldrich] I recall Kartik using fragments for marginalia which is apropos given the W3C notes on 2/23: https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: tantek left you a message on 2017-01-09 at 7:42am UTC: could you update the URL/description for HWC LA for this wek? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-01-11-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: tantek left you a message on 2017-01-26 at 12:07am UTC: I'm confused by this section: https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy#Rel-me_links - because shouldn't the IndieWeb Plugin already take care of your rel=me links for you? This section doesn't even mention the IndieWeb Plugin, and that you need to set it up with the links to your social media profiles. It should mention that right?
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: tantek left you a message on 2017-01-09 at 7:42am UTC: could you update the URL/description for HWC LA for this wek? https://indieweb.org/events/2017-01-11-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: tantek left you a message on 2017-01-26 at 12:07am UTC: I'm confused by this section: https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy#Rel-me_links - because shouldn't the IndieWeb Plugin already take care of your rel=me links for you? This section doesn't even mention the IndieWeb Plugin, and that you need to set it up with the links to your social media profiles. It should mention that right?
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Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] Marginalia
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GWG Hello, [chrisaldrich]
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[chrisaldrich] evening GWG! Stopping in for a second before heading over to UCLA for the evening.
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: Have fun.
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tantek hey chrisaldrich - yes - Kartik's marginalia the very first example in that link I provided ;)
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[chrisaldrich] I didn't manage to figure out what was causing that part of the admin UI to not appear last night, but in looking through all the rest, I don't know if I had more notes than what we'd discussed.
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tantek https://indieweb.org/fragment#Brainstorming
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I switched the tags from line separated to semicolon separated based on your comment
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[kevinmarks] I think I made mention-tech.appspot.com show fragmentions as quotes
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[kevinmarks] I need to spend a bit more time on that.
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[chrisaldrich] tantek, maybe its there and you haven't hit save yet as I don't see it for some reason.
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[chrisaldrich] Alright, back after midnight sometime...
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tantek chrisaldrich - hmm you don't see " Webmention and fragments" ?
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tantek and "The development of marginalia has ..."
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tantek ?
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KartikPrabhu I see it
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@lucas_gonze Web Annotation has a [trackback, pingbacks, Webmention] feature https://www.w3.org/annotation/diagrams/annotation-architecture.svg (twitter.com/_/status/836743093693009920)
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KartikPrabhu why!!!! why the weird SVG thing!!
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tantek who knows
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[kevinmarks] Because someone really likes xml
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[kevinmarks] I do quite like the diagram for use cases, but it's not really responsive
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KartikPrabhu well if they really wanted to show off they should have made a documented annotated using Web Annotation
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi kartikprabhu has 2 karma in this channel (142 overall)
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[eddie] Curious how you all treat pages. Are they just articles? Are they special articles? Are they something different entirely, and if so, do you use microformats (h-entry's) to mark them up? I know that, aaronpk, for example have a form for webmentions at the bottom of all of your stock pages.
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aaronpk My pages are basically articles without a published date
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[eddie] Okay. So no published date (which means no dt-published. But they get h-entry, p-name and e-content at a minimum
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aaronpk Yeah and they're stored the same internally
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[eddie] ohhh interesting. So if you don't give it a date, it just puts the permalink at the root level
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GWG [eddie]: What is it?
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[eddie] Generic pages versus Articles
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GWG The second it in your sentence.
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GWG [eddie]: What is the it giving permalinks out?
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[eddie] Ohhh aaronpk's page. He was saying he stores pages just the same as articles just without a date. So I was analyzing his permalinks lol
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GWG Oh
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sknebel Emoji << http://glasnt.com/blog/2016/08/06/solve-for-emoji.html
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Loqi ok, I added "http://glasnt.com/blog/2016/08/06/solve-for-emoji.html" to the "See Also" section of /emoji
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loqi.me edited /emoji (+74) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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aaronpk [eddie] actually the trigger for when something is an article or page is whether the slug starts with a /
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aaronpk In my storage that is
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loqi.me created /AIM (+64) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /AIM (+33) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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[eddie] aaronpk: ohhhh gotcha
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loqi.me created /VR (+143) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /VR (+35) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /VR (+15) "Zegnat added "[[HTC Vive]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Twitter (+410) "/* Issues */" (view diff)
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aaronpk awesome job twitter
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loqi.me created /principle (+23) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /promoted_tweet (+324) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /promoted_tweet (+95) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /promoted_tweet (+22) "tantek added "[[business models]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2017-03-01-promoted-tweet-in-followings-stream.png]]""
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tantek.com edited /promoted_tweet (+305) "example" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+36) "/* Features */ promote tweet" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /promoted_tweet to /promoted "for accounts too"
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tantek.com edited /promoted (+766) "expand to "promoted", for promoted account, hashtag, possibly other silos?" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /promoted (+19) "/* promoted account */ text description" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+60) "/* Features */ promoted account and hashtag too" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2017-03-01-promoted-account-in-who-to-follow.png]]""
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tantek.com moved /File:2017-03-01-promoted-tweet-in-followings-stream.png to /File:2017-03-01-promoted-account-in-followings-stream.png "actually, account"
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tantek.com edited /promoted (+110) "another spot for a promoted account" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /promoted (+2) "/* promoted account */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /promoted (+11) "/* promoted account */ description adjacent to correct image" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /promoted_tweet (+15) "to section" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /promoted_account (+38) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /promoted_hashtag (+77) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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@lucas_gonze How to address overlap between Webmention and W3C Web Annotation? Just let a thousand flowers bloom? (twitter.com/_/status/837019066942402560)
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tantek maybe try implementing and that will answer your question for you?
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aaronpk cweiske++ for chat log search
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Loqi cweiske has 9 karma in this channel (80 overall)
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loqi.me created /moblogging (+256) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /moblogging (+65) "photos and videos too" (view diff)
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aaronpk whoa some crazy controversy over the new github ToS
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tantek yeah? URL?
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aaronpk http://joeyh.name/blog/entry/removing_everything_from_github/
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aaronpk and https://www.mirbsd.org/permalinks/wlog-10_e20170301-tg.htm#e20170301-tg_wlog-10
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GWG Why is it that companies can't predict this by now?
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tantek whoa if those claims are true (about being GPL-incompat) I have a feeling that affects Moz too
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tantek GWG, predict what?
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GWG Fallout when they change their TOS
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tantek oh you mean like GitHub predicting it
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tantek yeah true - should have focus-grouped it better
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aaronpk it looks like they tried
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tantek huh mirbsd link is not loading
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aaronpk i think it's getting slashdotted
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aaronpk er, hackernewsd
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tantek as if that is still a thing for any decent backend :P
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GWG Noticed that link was out
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aaronpk oh it's still a thing
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tantek instead of bad DB / backend code bloat etc.
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GWG Is there another explanation?
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tantek anything requiring attribution? huh, that impacts all W3C work too
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tantek like specs
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tantek well then, this is going to get interesting
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tantek aaronpk, defiintely worth adding to /GitHub#Issues !
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tantek aaronpk FYI, IANAL but I'm pretty sure this is going to mean W3C will need to host their own github clone
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aaronpk yeah i can't quite tell what is going on here
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tantek also, this would be an *excellent* time to exercise posting issues, responses to issues, etc. on your own site
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aaronpk heh
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tantek and demonstrating how that works with Webmention etc.
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tantek just saying
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tantek there will be more people looking to "make that work"
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tantek especially the, ahem, *passionate*, free software / (L)GPL crowd
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@pypi_updates2 Flask-IndieAuth 0.0.3.2: Allow requests to be authenticated with https://indieauth.com/ http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Flask-IndieAuth/0.0.3.2 (twitter.com/_/status/837036474172391424)
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tantek alright let's at least make sure we have the pages for all the building blocks for fully federated code repositories, issues, etc.
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tantek what is code?
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Loqi code in the context of the indieweb, refers to source code, code files, typically in a revision control system, like Git, hosted on an indieweb site https://indieweb.org/code
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tantek Loqi?
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tantek what is a repository?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "repository" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk federated code repositories is definitely solved. federated pull requests somewhat less so, but linux's patch via email is a good example of federated pull requests.
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aaronpk federated issues are a relatively unexplored territory, and where webmention and the other building blocks can really shine
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aaronparecki.com edited /GitHub (+408) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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tantek a repository is a collection of typically [[code]] & other files, [[issue]]s & [[responses]], and a set of [[release]]s related to a specific [[project]], often hosted in [[source control]] such as [[Git]], on a service like [[GitHub]] or on independent sites using open source software.
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loqi.me created /repository (+317) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is an issue?
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Loqi issue is a special kind of article post that is a reply to typically some source code, though potentially anything at a source control repository https://indieweb.org/issue
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tantek what is a source control repository?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "source control repository" yet. Would you like to create it?_
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tantek source control repository is /repository
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /source_control_repository (+23) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek what is a repo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "repo" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek repo is repository
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loqi.me created /repo (+50) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is a release?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "release" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek a release is a snapshot of the [[code]] & other files in a [[repository]] as of a particular datetime, often with an explicit name (commonly referred to as the tag for the release).
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loqi.me created /release (+211) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is source control?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "source control" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is scs?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "scs" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek hmm
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tantek what is a source control system?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "source control system" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is vcs?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "vcs" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is CVS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "CVS" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is Mercurial
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Loqi Versioning is the practice of keeping previous versions of a post or other item available (possibly through a record of edits) https://indieweb.org/Mercurial
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tantek uh
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tantek maybe I'll leave some of those ^^^ up to other folks in the channel, perhaps bear?
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tantek what is a license?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "license" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek !!!
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Zegnat what is copyright?
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Loqi All text and images contributed to the IndieWebCamp.com wiki are released to the public domain per CC0, as they were required to be copyright owned by the contributor prior to contribution and agreed to CC0 upon wiki editing, or already in the public domain or equivalent when contributed https://indieweb.org/Copyright
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Zegnat Ah, hmm, that one is specific to the wiki only
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tantek a license is terms under which you are allowed to (re)use a piece of work; in the context of the IndieWeb, for source code such as in open source [[projects]], or content, like the IndieWeb wiki itself which has a specific [[Copyright]].
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /license (+267) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek license << http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-license
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loqi.me edited /license (+60) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-license" to the "See Also" section of /license
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Loqi rel="license"
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tantek what is ToS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ToS" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is terms of service
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "terms of service" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek !!!
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Zegnat Apparently official mirror of the mirbsd blog post: http://sprunge.us/TCaI
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ben_thatmustbeme is avoiding saying "ToS is The Original Series"
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tantek heh
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tantek that's TOS, technically speaking
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Zegnat For indieweb projects, if we can adopt https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues/39 non of this will concern us ?
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tantek commented
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tantek Zegnat++ thanks for driving this
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Loqi zegnat has 2 karma in this channel (37 overall)
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Zegnat Thanks tantek. I’ll probably go through the repos again some time later this week to @-mention all the main contributors and get some traction.
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tantek Zegnat if you can get some sort of rough consensus in that issue 39 thread, it's also ok to incrementally work on updating the licensing of each project the way php-mf2 was updated
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tantek instead of trying to do it all at once
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Zegnat It’ll have to be done incrementally, as for every repo every contributor will have to give their consensus. I thought it would be good to get the discussion going at a central spot first.
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Zegnat See if we can write a CONTRIBUTING.md / LICENSE.md file centrally before opening the issues per repo.
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tantek right, a template to copy
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Zegnat Yeah, it would suck to get 4 repos down the list and suddenly need to tweak the text again. I will add that to the issue as well.
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Zegnat adds to todo list
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[barryf] aaronpk: I’ve pushed a new release live for Micropublish that now uses q=source with properties. Would you mind giving it a look?
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ben_thatmustbeme i've begun work on having inkstone do updating of posts as well.
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[barryf] ben_thatmustbeme Nice ?
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loqi.me created /report (+25) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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aaronpk [barryf]: awesome! yes i'd love to check it out
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tantek.com edited /report_abuse (+820) "note past Instagram info was as of 2015, and new UI as of 2017 (and more responsive), note anecdotal much faster response to spam reports" (view diff)
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aaronpk [barryf]: ooh this is good
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[barryf] Nice! All looking correct?
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aaronpk looks like it! I was able to edit one of my posts with it!
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[barryf] Great! I’ll submit a PR for the update to Micropublish's implementation report.
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aaronpk \o/
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tantek well that was fast
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tantek so yeah: https://twitter.com/lmorchard/status/837037671004389381
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@lmorchard That thing where I manually renewed my Let's Encrypt cert for my blog 3 months ago and that's just long enough to forget how I did it (twitter.com/_/status/837037671004389381)
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tantek and https://twitter.com/lmorchard/status/837040488733634564
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@lmorchard Oh and hey, the self-verify challenge for Let's Encrypt to renew my SSL cert failed... because my SSL cert expired. Derp (twitter.com/_/status/837040488733634564)
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aaronpk that's...not how that works
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tantek @lmorchard is a pretty sharp dev
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aaronpk the verify challenge is sent to the http site
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tantek this sounds like the kinds of things I would get tripped up on
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aaronpk and the reason they picked 3 months is for exactly this reason, because they want people to automate it from the beginning because it's too hard to remember all the steps
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tantek hah
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aaronpk 1 year expiration is long enough that it's too easy to justify not automating it
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aaronpk 3 months seems long at first, but the second time you do it you're like okay yeah let's make sure that's automated
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aaronpk [barryf]++
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Loqi barryf has 2 karma in this channel (9 overall)
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aaronpk implementation report summary is updated! https://micropub.net/implementation-reports/clients/
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[barryf] That was quick! Hope that helps.
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aaronpk it definitely does! thanks!
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[barryf] No worries. Time for bed for me in Europe/London timezone. Enjoy HWC.
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tantek aaronpk - both the vote to take Micropub to PR pending another implementation for that one feature, and subsequent implementation + report update are worth announcing at HWC!
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martymcguire[m] and maybe a post to IndieNews? so it can go in this week in the indieweb? :}
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www.boffosocko.com edited /WordPress_with_Bridgy (+149) "Reference to IndieWeb plugin" (view diff)
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