#dev 2017-02-28

2017-02-28 UTC
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www.boffosocko.com edited /annotation (+439) "W3C Recommendations; formatting" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes.uk edited /HTTPS (-34) "/* Maintenance tax and site fragility */" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes.uk edited /Nginx (+361) "/* Using PHP with nginx */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /Nginx (+352) "adding path-info aware PHP location block which makes things like Owncloud and Baikal happy" (view diff)
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derhess.de edited /events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club (-20) "/* West Europe */" (view diff)
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derhess.de edited /events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club (+36) "/* Berlin */" (view diff)
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sebastiangreger.net edited /User:Sebastiangreger.net (-11) (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /User:Eddiehinkle.com (+1447) "/* Eddie Hinkle */" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /User:Eddiehinkle.com (-107) (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com created /Template:eddiehinkle.com (+148) "Add template for eddiehinkle.com" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Jekyll (+66) "Add eddiehinkle.com as Jekyll site example" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /projects (+66) "/* Jekyll */" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /User:Eddiehinkle.com (+741) "Fix TOC link and add current technology stack" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /User:Eddiehinkle.com (+29) "Fix page hierarchy" (view diff)
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[barryf] aaronpk: I was just trying Quill's editing with a like on my site and it didn't quite work for me. I assumed the like-of value should be an array whereas Quill's response was a string.
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aaronpk which direction didn't work?
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aaronpk when quill is reading your site or when it sends it?
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[barryf] When it sends it.
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[barryf] I expected an array but received a string.
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aaronpk ah gotcha. let me check something
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aaronpk yep quill should be sending an array :)
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aaronpk this is why i need to finish the client tests in micropub.rocks :)
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aaronpk try now :)
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[barryf] Ha, no problem! Happy to help test ?
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[barryf] Bingo. That did it.
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aaronpk awesome
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aaronparecki.com edited /Ghost (+1212) "/* Issues */ continued discussion about microformats2" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /mediafragment (+27) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /Template:schmarty (+145) "schmarty template to match /schmarty" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /media_fragment (+482) "more details about media fragment support" (view diff)
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aaronpk [barryf] can I ask you a couple questions about your micropublish client/
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aaronpk ?
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martymcgui.re edited /Template:schmarty (-4) "fix nested User:User link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /media_fragment (+1087) "add why, how to, indieweb examples sections, merge in previous indieweb examples / how to content" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /media_fragment (+49) "/* Implementations */" (view diff)
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tantek ok now that time based fragments are implemented and supported by multiple sites / implementations, let's go for space
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tantek what is an image fragment?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "image fragment" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk what is an image map?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "image map" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek they're not the same right?
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aaronpk they're kind of the inverse of each other?
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aaronpk if you receive a webmention from an image fragment URL, you could render it as an image map
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aaronpk !tell cweiske any chance you can add micropub query support to shpub? https://github.com/cweiske/shpub/issues/2
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Afternoon
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[keithjgrant] What's the best practice regarding hashes & query params in a URL? Say, as an in-reply-to value... Do they need to be left intact?
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Loqi [keithjgrant]: voxpelli left you a message 6 days, 2 hours ago: I don't have an authorization endpoint at voxpelli.com since my identity setup there isn't supported by IndieAuth.com – instead I have a separate discovery page + sometimes manually enter my identity URL (rarely supported)
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aaronpk query params are part of the URL and may result in a different page on the server, e.g. default wordpress URL scheme is like example.com/index.php?p=100 or something. hashes identify content within the page, so you can include the hash if the thing you're mentioning is a specific part of the page
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aaronpk e.g. media fragments
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[keithjgrant] Yeah, that makes sense about query params.
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[keithjgrant] I'm thinking for my chrome extension. User wants to reply to the "current page"... do I trim off the hash? If there's one of those marketing/tracking query params on the url, will it do odd things to the Webmention if sent?
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aaronpk the "current page" does not include the hash according to the URL spec
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aaronpk hash is within the page
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aaronpk but you could also probably blacklist a few of the common query params like utm_*
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[keithjgrant] that's a good approach, I like that
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aaronparecki.com edited /Ghost (+478) "add positive example of indieweb support" (view diff)
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[barryf] aaronpk: Sorry, went offline for dinner. Happy to answer any questions if you’re around.
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aaronpk hey thanks
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aaronpk i was curious why you used the "query all posts" option vs "query specific properties" for editing
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[barryf] Well I think it seemed easier at the time given the number of properties I would be requesting. I suppose it’s a bit like using SELECT * vs SELECT column1, column2.
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aaronpk interesting, okay
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aaronpk do you have only the one editing interface?
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[barryf] Yes, just the one. I considered following what I had built for new posts and using post type discovery to determine which interface to display, but I thought that may be limiting.
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aaronpk interesting!
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aaronpk i just did that exact approach with Quill
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aaronpk (to avoid building a generic editing interface)
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[barryf] I’d certainly consider that approach though. Oh, OK.
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[barryf] Hmm, maybe I should reconsider!
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aaronpk i like the full edit UI, but I think I would use it as a backup UI of sorts
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aaronpk like it's kind of weird to edit a bookmark post and see a field to add a "like-of" property
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[barryf] You’re right. It’s not as user-friendly for sure. Maybe, as you say, offer the “kitchen sink” option as a fallback.
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aaronpk my "kitchen sink" fallback right now is I have to edit the file on disk by hand. which means I can't really do it from my phone, and I would much rather use an interface like this.
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aaronpk but my typical edits don't actually need that level of control, which is why my inline p3k editor doesn't even support editing post content, just a few properties
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[barryf] I started out with grand plans to support any nested Microformats 2 structure, but realised I was effectively building a poor JSON editor.
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aaronpk ha! interesting point
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[barryf] Your client tests have reminded me I need to add photo and media endpoint support so that’s next on my list. I’ll maybe then try your post type approach.
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aaronpk so if you built post-type-specific editing into micropublish, do you think the "query for specific properties" method would be useful?
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[barryf] Sure. It makes more sense than returning unnecessary extra data.
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tantek huh, like e.g. editing an RSVP?
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aaronpk an RSVP, a bookmark, a like, whatever
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aaronpk all the posts that have their own create interface here https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-02-28-12-33-28.png
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[barryf] This may be a silly question, but are the properties for post types now generally fixed?
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aaronpk well they're based on the h-entry and other microformats2 vocabularies
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aaronpk so they are as stable as those specs
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aaronpk and now that http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry has a specific "change control" section I feel better about the stability of those specific properties
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML/H...
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tantek barryf, there is no "fixed" set of post types, or rather, they are a slowly growing set
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tantek based on real world examples of posting behavior, identifying patterns of posts that would/could benefit from being treated as a different type, brainstorming, proposals, experiments, etc.
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tantek for any particular post type, you have to check the properties it is using to see how stable they are considered
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tantek what are post types
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Loqi Post Types was a session at IndieWebCamp Brighton 2016 https://indieweb.org/Post_Types
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tantek heh
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tantek that could probably be made more generic with a see also
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tantek barryf, see: https://indieweb.org/posts#Kinds_of_Posts
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tantek I'll fix up wiki refs
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[barryf] Thanks tantek. That makes sense.
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tantek.com edited /Post_Types (-3) "update redir to something more generic than a session" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /posts (+138) "/* Kinds of Posts */ Related Sessions" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Amazon_S3 (+136) "Criticism Downtime" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /downtime (+13) "see also outage" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /outage (+32) "dfn fix, see also" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /multilingual_blogging (+93) "/* Indieweb Examples */ prompted by sebsel." (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Amazon_S3 (+54) "/* Criticism */ Outage" (view diff)
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tantek if anyone has any data / posts / news re: S3 outage, please add links etc. to https://indieweb.org/Amazon_S3#Outages
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tantek IIRC this is not the first time this has happened
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sknebel does it really make sense to list every instance of a service having (in thas case even regionally limited) outages as "criticism" of said service? To me that's mostly noise, because everything is going to have downtime somewhere sometime.
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aaronparecki.com edited /Amazon_S3 (+120) "/* Criticism */ links" (view diff)
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aaronpk yea i kind of agree
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aaronpk there isnt really anything actionable that comes from documenting them
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tantek sknebel: when there is a common (mis)understanding that services "just work" without any problems ever (i.e. endough to depend on without redundancy) then it's worth documenting instances that dispute that common wisdom
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tantek aaronpk there is. changing of perceptions, then possibly more redundancy
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tantek as you would have to do with anything that becomes unreliable enough
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tantek how unreliable you're willing to put up with is personal and/or use-case specific obv
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tantek e.g. I can't post a note to my server vs. I can't show my boarding pass
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tantek another purpose of documenting such instances is to show history and possibly trends over time
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tantek which you don't / won't know until you've taken the time to document specific instances - before you know such patterns exist
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sknebel I guess then the basic documentation shouldn't be under "criticism", because I'd like those sections to tell me something interesting about the specific service, not "global truths" (which "stuff breaks occasionally" is for me).
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aaronpk that makes sense. criticism would be more appropriate for how a company handled an outage
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tantek yes that makes sense
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tantek feel free to edit, remove criticism as a heading, just have "Outages" as a == heading
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aaronparecki.com edited /Twitter (-3) "/* Criticism */ move Downtime to a section outside of Criticism" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Instagram (-2) "/* Criticism */ move Downtime to a section outside of Criticism" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /GitHub (-2) "/* Criticism */ move Downtime to a section outside of Criticism" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Tumblr (-2) "/* Criticisms */ move Downtime to a section outside of Criticism" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Amazon_S3 (-18) "extra /* Outages */ section" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Flickr (-2) "move Downtime to a section outside of Criticism" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Lanyrd (+16) "move Downtime to a section outside of Criticism" (view diff)
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aaronpk better
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aaronpk now downtime is presented in a more factual way
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tantek s/factual/objective
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+612) "add explicit Features section for user-level features, and IndieWeb Friendly section with subsections for Standards Support, and other specific best practices" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2017-02-28-strava-ios-down.png]]""
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tantek.com edited /Strava (+157) "Downtime" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Amazon_S3 (+74) "/* Outages */ note sites apparently impacted as observed, Strava" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /tinbox (+277) "tantek added "consider updating various projects indieweb support/compat sections to IndieWeb Friendly section with subsections similar to [[Falcon#IndieWeb_Friendly]], e.g. [[GNU_social#IndieWeb_Compatibility]] (how should we archive past services S" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Webmention (+261) "try a short user-relevant summary, spec has advanced to REC, but still worth submitting implementation reports" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /expand_a_page (+219) "note Features, etc. sections on some pages" (view diff)
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tantek what is an image fragment?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "image fragment" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek.com edited /area-tag (+146) "move all how to to brainstorming because this is all still being figured out (nothing working yet)" (view diff)
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tantek media fragment << [[area-tag]]
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loqi.me edited /media_fragment (+15) "tantek added "[[area-tag]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[[area-tag]]" to the "See Also" section of /media fragment
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tantek.com edited /media_fragment (+219) "Brainstorming Spatial for area tags" (view diff)
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@vipickering @vipickering Yahoo! Basic Webmention support is working \o/ \o/ \o/ (twitter.com/_/status/836721810012061697)
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tantek Yahoo supports Webmentions? Wow! ;)