#dev 2017-03-08

2017-03-08 UTC
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gRegorLove GWG: Have you seen / used the WordPress Plugin Boilerplate? I've used it on a couple work projects. I'm kinda liking it.
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gRegorLove https://github.com/devinvinson/WordPress-Plugin-Boilerplate/
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GWG Seen yes, used no
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[kevinmarks] Carousels are a presentation for playlists.
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[kevinmarks] I should dust off my playlist proposal
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Loqi I agree
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[kevinmarks] When was s5? 2004?
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Loqi what
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loqi.me created /Brave (+129) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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hugo.soucy.cc created /User:Hugo.soucy.cc (+303) "Created page with "Hello my name is '''Hugo Soucy''', i'm digital worker in Quebev city. A former Yukon sourdough & crevette de Matane. [http://hugo.soucy.cc] ---- == Setup == * I use my own St..."" (view diff)
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hugo.soucy.cc edited /User:Hugo.soucy.cc (+0) "/* Setup */" (view diff)
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hugo.soucy.cc edited /User:Hugo.soucy.cc (+185) "/* Setup */" (view diff)
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@NelioSoft_ES Trackbacks, pingbacks y webmentions https://neliosoftware.com/es/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-y-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/839479798133108737)
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hugo.soucy.cc edited /User:Hugo.soucy.cc (+68) (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /static-site (+112) "KevinMarks added "https://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2017/03/fireside-fiction-company-is-science-fictions-best-kept-secret/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes hello
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jonnybarnes so, are people doing anything more complicated than taking a file POSTed to the media-endpoint, saving it with a publicly accessible URL (local folder, S3 bucket etc) and returning said URL?
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jonnybarnes e.g. maybe logging which client uploaded the file, which token was used to authnenticate?
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tantek re: Micropub media endpoint
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aaronpk i've thought about logging that stuff, but haven't found a concrete use for it yet
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aaronpk i just write the file to disk and return a URL
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tantek beyond the web server logs presumably?
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aaronpk right, "which client uploaded the file, which token was used..."
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aaronpk the one use for it that I might want to implement is to "garbage collect" uploaded files that weren't ever used in a post
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aaronpk sometimes I upload a photo in quill, then replace it with another photo before I actually make the post
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aaronpk so there's a file sitting in my folder that isn't ever used in a post, and it's just stuck there now
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jonnybarnes or maybe a client could get a list of recently uploaded files to "attach" to a new note
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aaronpk yeah definitely
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jonnybarnes I’m assuming you can list multiple media URLs when creating a new entry with micropub
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aaronpk yes, like a multiphoto post?
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tantek aaronpk I thought you expired unused photos after 24h?
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aaronpk I thought about doing that, but never implemented it
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tantek maybe that was just brainstorming?
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tantek thought I saw it somewhere
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aaronpk i did switch media endpoint implementations recently, but i can't remember if i had it on my old one or not
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aaronpk i switched to a single php file sitting on dreamhost ?
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tantek wow
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julieannenoying.com edited /Events (+30) "/* March */" (view diff)
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julieannenoying.com edited /Events (+1351) "/* February */" (view diff)
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julieannenoying.com edited /Events () "(-1370)" (view diff)
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tantek whoa
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tantek julieannenoying++
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Loqi julieannenoying has 1 karma
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tantek !!!
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aaronpk haha does she have another irc name?
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Loqi awesome
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aaronpk julie++
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Loqi julie has 1 karma
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tantek Not sure, but I take it HWC Nürnberg has begun!
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julieannenoying.com edited /Events (+791) "/* 2017 */" (view diff)
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julieannenoying.com edited /Events () "(-775) /* March */" (view diff)
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julieannenoying.com uploaded /File:IMG_9804.JPG "Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg 17-03-08"
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aaronpk haha that's great https://indieweb.org/File:IMG_9804.JPG
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julieannenoying.com edited /events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club (+114) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 90 (twitter.com/_/status/839540865458655232)
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tantek.com moved /File:IMG_9804.JPG to /File:2017-03-08-hwc-nur.jpg "date event city"
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tantek.com edited /events/2017-02-22-homebrew-website-club (+68) "/* Blog posts */" (view diff)
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tantek hmm - any other feedback on https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-03-06#t1488824363220000 ?
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Loqi [tantek] I'm thinking of building on that work - and moving a bunch of the page to something like /Webmention-developer
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calumryan.com edited /events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club (+109) "/* Photos */ Added London" (view diff)
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sknebel 14 hours until sknebel irc is not visible enough on the homepage
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2017-03-09 11:09am CET (#5997)
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tantek wat
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sknebel feedback I just got, something I'd like to fix tomorrow. now loqi will remind me
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tantek ah, IRC, not "sknebel IRC" ok
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aaronpk It's at the veeeeerrry bottom lol
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tantek sknebel: IRC *used to be* more visible / lengthy on the home page, but we were finding that "IRC" turned off non-devs
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tantek so we do link to IRC discussions and such, but by calling it by its function, not its plumbing
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aaronpk we've improved the IRC page since then
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tantek chat, etc
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sknebel yeah, right now you have to follow the "link to getting started" and thne see a link to "chat"
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sknebel no need to call it "IRC" on the frontpage ;)
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tantek no it's faster than that
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aaronpk Apparently it's not
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tantek "View current discussions"
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tantek right ther on Join the IndieWeb
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aaronpk if someone who knows there's a link can't even find it...
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tantek it is literally the 2nd bold link on the page
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tantek aaronpk: no because they're looking for plumbing ("IRC") not function
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aaronpk "view current discussions" does not sound like a thing I can use to join the discussion
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tantek see 2nd link next line
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tantek "join the discussion"
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sknebel yeah, it is there, but maybe the name can be improved
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tantek here I'll make that bold too
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sknebel "talk to us"
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sknebel something like that
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aaronpk "discussions" does not even imply chat
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aaronpk could be mailing list
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aaronpk or forum
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sknebel yep
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tantek aaronpk: what you typed " join the discussion" is literally on the page
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tantek and linked
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tantek right there
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aaronpk literally my point is being made right here
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tantek no because we're devs talking about IRC
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tantek not making a point about non-IRC users who want to discuss things
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aaronpk saying "but it's right there" does not solve the problem of two people not seeing it
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tantek because you've stared at the home page too much maybe?
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aaronpk i wasn't talking about me
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tantek point is - two people familiar with something not seeing something does not make any points about a new person seeing it or not
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tantek if you think of a better (more beginner user friendly) phrase than " join the discussion" - I'm open to it
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tantek certainly not "join IRC" though :P
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aaronpk nobody was suggesting "join IRC"
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tantek aaronpk: start of this thread
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tantek sknebel said literally " irc is not visible enough on the homepage"
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aaronpk sknebel said a new person didn't find the link to the chat. sknebel then also did not know that "join the discussion" was a link to the chat
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tantek those are different problems
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aaronpk that's literally the problem
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tantek 1. new user finding chat
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tantek 2. familiar dev knowing where to send people
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sknebel I said IRC because after telling them that we have a chat he said he uses IRC more than slack
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tantek also side bar
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tantek "Discuss"
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tantek "Chat log"
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Keybase (+132) "encrypted chat product release" (view diff)
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tantek alright I'll try changin it to Join online chat
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-43) "replace "discussions" with "chat" since discussion is ambiguous (could mean mailing list or forum)" (view diff)
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tantek and putting it first in the third point not last
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aaronpk this page has gotten a lot better lately, and we might want to rename it to something other than IRC https://indieweb.org/IRC
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tantek chat is better than discussion?
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aaronpk definitely
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tantek aaronpk: or move the IRC-specific bits to an IRC page
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tantek ok
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aaronpk honesltly i see "discussion" and I think "mailing list"
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aaronpk or forum
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aaronpk so I skip right past it because I don't want either of those
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tantek right that's where you're different (like most of us are)
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tantek in that most devs DO want a mailing list or forum
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aaronpk well we don't have one so too bad :P
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tantek because they have been mistrained in those habits by like every other open source community
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tantek so that's the point
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tantek the term "discussion" is something THOSE folks do see
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aaronpk honeypot link "Forum" and "Mailing List" to /IRC
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tantek and think they want
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tantek I predict we'll start to get more "where's the mailing list" questions
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tantek by dropping "Discuss" for "Chat"
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tantek whereas with "Discuss" directing people to Chat, we use their existing hook to direct them to the better way
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aaronpk i also wasn't referring to "Discuss"
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aaronpk just "discussion"
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aaronpk "discuss" as a verb is totally different than "discussion" as a noun
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tantek how about Participate?
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aaronpk too vague
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aaronpk i'm not opposed to the "Discuss" link in the header
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aaronpk just "view the discussion" did not imply either chat log or the fact that i could *join* the chat there
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tantek ok
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tantek Discuss is already in the sidebar so we can leave it at that
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+40) "/* Join the IndieWeb */ join chat first rather than projects" (view diff)
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tantek ok how's that? https://indieweb.org/#Join_the_IndieWeb
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aaronpk having it first is definitely better
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aaronpk is "online" really necessary? what other kind of chat would it be?
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tantek sknebel: is "Join online chat" better?
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aaronpk offline?
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tantek more like word rhythm
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tantek "Join chat" sounds too abrupt / terse
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tantek also bigger link target
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aaronpk it said "Join the chat" before
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+3) "/* Join the IndieWeb */ #indieweb chat in particular since that's what it does" (view diff)
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tantek how's that?
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tantek is that also enough of a clue for IRC people?
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aaronpk oh you switched it back to the chat log?
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tantek huh no you made it chat log I thought
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aaronpk since "view the chat log" is right above it, I thought linking to /IRC would be better
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tantek no way
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=34607&oldid=34606&rcid=34532
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tantek that's too many clicks to do anything
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tantek direct link to web-based chat is far more accessible
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tantek rather than click, see another wiki page with a bunch of text
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tantek now what do I click?
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tantek why you making me click twice just to find a place to join the chat?
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aaronpk well then I will add a link to /IRC on the chat log
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aaronpk I just want to make sure people know there are multiple ways to join the chat
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tantek presumably they'd figure that out after chatting a bit?
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tantek is that really necessary to add that decision as a prerequisite to them chatting?
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aaronpk i'm assuming there is a set of people who would be put off by seeing *only* a web chat form
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tantek I don't get that
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tantek as opposed to the majority of people who get put off by having to do 1 more step, or make 1 more decision
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tantek that's like basic UX design. minimize steps for the user to get something done. minimize unnecessary choices before the user *can* get something done. get out of the user's way and let them accomplish the task.
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aaronpk look at https://indieweb.org/irc/today
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aaronpk that's what I mean
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tantek same reason when you launch a new browser it doesn't start with opening preferences and saying hey, please set your preferences first
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aaronpk now the path is home page, click "join the chat", land on https://indieweb.org/irc/today, and then either start right there or get info about using apps you might already have set up
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aaronpk given the choice between using a web form or using an app I already have set up (IRC, Matrix or Slack), I would choose the app I am already using
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tantek I thought we were talking about the home page
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aaronpk no it's done now
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tantek I'm confused
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aaronpk did you miss the part where i conceded your point?
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tantek I don't even know what my point was now
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aaronpk reducing the number of clicks
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tantek ah
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tantek going to unbold projects until we've cleaned it up a bit more
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aaronpk +1
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-6) "/* Join the IndieWeb */ unbold link to projects, similar to unbolded 2nd link in previous two points, also [[projects]] needs some work" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk so do we not need #bottom any more?
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aaronpk the chat bar is pinned to the bottom of the window, but #bottom jumps the focus to the most recent chat
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aaronpk i could do that in JS though
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tantek on first load kinda thing?
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aaronpk and only for today's log
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aaronpk oh, easier solution
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tantek ok I'll let you do that and remove the #bottom from those links at the same time
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/irc/today is alraedy a redirect so now the redirect adds #bottom
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tantek and yes, adding the information / links for the web-chat alternative methods of IRC / Matrix / Slack right there next to the Join button is perfect, because right when the user is considering should I click "Join" is when they may also be thinking but I like to use (insert chat client here)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-18) "remove #bottom since it's added by the /today redirect" (view diff)
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tantek oh hey Discuss in the sidebar links to https://indieweb.org/discuss !
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tantek which has both Chat and Email :)
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aaronpk oh what is that page
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tantek it's a teaching page :)
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aaronpk maybe some of /IRC can move there?
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tantek sure!
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aaronparecki.com edited /discuss (+1209) "merge channel info from [[IRC]]" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IRC () "(-1227) move indieweb channel information to [[discuss]]" (view diff)
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aaronpk there we go
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aaronpk that's a little better
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-20) "/* Upcoming Homebrew Website Club meetups */ no pdx in march" (view diff)
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gRegorLove what is discuss?
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Loqi Join the #indieweb discussions via the web, IRC, Matrix or Slack! https://indieweb.org/discuss
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gRegorLove what is IRC?
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Loqi Internet Relay Chat (abbreviated IRC), in particular the #indieweb channel on the irc.freenode.net server, is the primary community discussion forum for IndieWebCamp and anything about the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/IRC
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gRegorLove tantek: Finally getting around to setting up 3/22 + April HWCs
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tantek yay!
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gRegorLove Using https://indieweb.org/events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club if you think that looks good
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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tantek gRegorLove: I think so? Though maybe too much may have been deleted?
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tantek I think we should switch the default image
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gRegorLove Oh? You mean cities?
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tantek yeah, I think some cities or their default locations may have been deleted (me) for 03-08
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gRegorLove checks history
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tantek one thing at a time, switching to newer default image with that awesome one from Portland
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gRegorLove Ok. Link?
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tantek.com edited /events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club (-42) "new default featured photo" (view diff)
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tantek wait that?
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gRegorLove Haha
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tantek is confused again
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Loqi awesome
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gRegorLove tantek: Nevermind, thought you were asking me to update the cover photo
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gRegorLove anomalily looks like she wants no part of that picture, haha
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tantek yes much hilarity
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tantek is clearly having trouble with this whole communication thing this morning
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aaronpk that is an accurate assessment of the situation
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joelpurra.com created /User:Joelpurra.com (+38) "Initial page for joelpurra.com" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, then definitely don't tell her she's in the new default featured photo for HWC events ;)
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aaronpk ha
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joelpurra.com edited /IRC_People (+104) "Add deathrow1 (Joel Purra, joelpurra.com)" (view diff)
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gRegorLove tantek: Mind if I remove these <!-- location-->? Makes it harder to comment out the venue addresses. I make them "TBD" when I'm first setting them up.
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tantek gRegorLove: I deliberately put them at the end
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tantek so we could do --><!-- location-->
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tantek on those
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tantek make sense?
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gRegorLove The times show up after; I usually comment out those too
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tantek no no, like
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tantek ... times --><!-- location-->
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gRegorLove Ok, I'll move them. They're not like that on most of these.
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tantek ok sounds like we need more fixing before cloning
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tantek let me check /HWC
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gRegorLove I'll run 3/22 by you before making April events
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www.boffosocko.com edited /projects (-104) "/* Ghost */ moved indieweb example to main ghost page" (view diff)
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tantek chrisaldrich TBH most of the Ghost description on the /projects page could be moved to the main /Ghost page
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tantek like original kickstarter moneys is pretty irrelevant in the context of a list of projects and how useful/used are they today
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Ghost (+37) "moved John Ellison; cleaned up formatting" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorLove, chrisaldrich, it's down to the three of us to see who can get the most (more than 1?) participant at HWC in our cities tonight!
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gRegorLove Pretty sure we have 3! Katie's coming again.
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tantek nice!
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tantek ok chrisaldrich, gRegorLove has thrown down!
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rMdes when I read you i guess I realize getting 15 people for our hwc first launch was really cool
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tantek definitely
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rMdes we'll see how it goes for the next one end of the month probably, we'll focus core indieweb
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gRegorLove aaronpk: No PDX on 3/22, right?
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aaronpk correct
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tantek.com edited /events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club (+159) "update some defaults, clean up order of / placement of some commented out cities" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorLove: tried to clean-up 03-08 some more, wasn't sure if you were waiting on that or not?
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tantek I think I'm done enough touching it.
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gregorlove.com created /events/2017-03-22-homebrew-website-club (+8915) "stub based on latest /events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club" (view diff)
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gRegorLove tantek: Look good? ^
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tantek looks
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gRegorLove Is "Ask in the chatroom" good, per the earlier discussion about chat links?
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tantek I think "Ask" can be offputting because it immediately asserts an imbalance (the asker is asking for help)
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gRegorLove I guess the "beta" is no longer needed to join
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tantek right
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gRegorLove (in the URL)
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tantek yes
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tantek gRegorLove: 03-08 looks good! replicate for April?
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gRegorLove How about: "Any questions? Join the #indieweb chat."?
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tantek on the home page?
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gRegorLove No, on the HWC event pages.
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gRegorLove Mirroring the language of the homepage there.
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tantek ah yes that makes sense
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2017-03-22-homebrew-website-club (-8) "Update chat link/prompt "Any questions? Join the #indieweb chat!"" (view diff)
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reitnauer.com edited /WordPress (+82) "/* Articles */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Ok, replicating April events now.
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gregorlove.com created /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (+8907) "stub based on latest /events/2017-03-22-homebrew-website-club" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /events/2017-04-19-homebrew-website-club (+8907) "stub based on latest /events/2017-03-22-homebrew-website-club" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (-307) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ rm 03/01 HWC Portland" (view diff)
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sknebel Oh wow, just saw the walls of texts my chat note triggered. I guess I can mark this mentally as resolved
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aaronpk :)
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tantek sknebel perhaps take a look at indieweb.org and see if you think it is any better?
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sknebel I did, I think it is. Ping deathrow1: is our chat now easier to find from the homepage? :)
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deathrow1 sknebel: it's not harder, that's for sure!
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aaronpk ? i'll take it
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gRegorLove Heh, had an error doing Bridgy Publish to Facebook. Checked FB and had a notification just 3 minuts ago to renew the access. Timely. :)
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deathrow1 the chat and the chat log are very similar pages though
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tantek deathrow1 - yes that's a longer term project to consolidate
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tantek e.g. chat log right now covers all the channels
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tantek whereas the web chat is only for #indieweb
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deathrow1 yes. guess if the web chat had been more generic, ie all the channels, individual links from the chat logs would have been enough to cover both cases (in terms of links from the front page)
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aaronpk soon i hope
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aaronpk wow that was already a month ago that I updated the Slack gateway to cover all the channels
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2017/02/04/8/day-46-slack-irc-gateway
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Day 46: Expanding the IRC/Slack Gateway to all IndieWeb Channels #100DaysOfIndieWeb
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aaronpk that was a prerequisite for updating the web chat
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aaronpk i am a little disappointed nobody has uploaded an image via slack since then!
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tantek.com edited /video (+341) "/* Brainstorming */ subheads, POSSE to IA" (view diff)
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tantek what is a license?
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Loqi license is terms under which you are allowed to (re)use a piece of work; in the context of the IndieWeb, for source code such as in open source projects, or content, like the IndieWeb wiki itself which has a specific Copyright https://indieweb.org/license
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tantek.com edited /license (+928) "How to whole permalink, Brainstorming Licensing specific things, u-license thought to replace rel-license" (view diff)
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angelo.lahacker.net edited /events/2017-03-08-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* Los Angeles */" (view diff)
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aaronpk \o/ https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-03-08-15-34-24.png
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