#dev 2017-05-06

2017-05-06 UTC
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miklb I do have more questions about how the projects under /indieweb are managed. Who's the gatekeeper, etc?
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gregorlove.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (-34) "/* Rel-me */ link main /rel-me, tweak first sentences based on /rel-me#Why, section heading for self-hosted" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+854) "/* Rel-me */ Hosted at WordPress.com instructions" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-me (-350) "/* How to on WordPress */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove GWG, [chrisaldrich]: Did some consolidating on wordpress rel-me and expanded the wordpress.com hosted instructions based on today's experience: https://indieweb.org/rel-me#How_to_on_WordPress
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gregorlove.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+131) "/* Hosted at WordPress.com */ screenshot placeholders" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+188) "/* Hosted at WordPress.com */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:Wordpress-com-rel-me6.png]]""
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove++ for IWC Bellingham and some great work today
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Loqi gregorlove has 20 karma in this channel (125 overall)
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[chrisaldrich] gRegorLove, I've been meaning to create some specific documentation for how to set things up with WordPress.com to split it away from the .org portion (for better clarification)
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gRegorLove It was kind of a chaotic day, but some really good conversations and good progress.
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[chrisaldrich] There's really only so much one can really do with WordPress.com on the IndieWeb side, but many can use it as a stepping stone since export works fairly well and one can own all the permanlinks in a conversion.
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gRegorLove Thankfully everyone seemed to have a good experience
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[chrisaldrich] I got stuck in meetings after lunch so I missed the presentations. Hopefully I'll catch up on logs here shortly.
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gRegorLove Yeah, Salt was really encouraging Joe to go with his end goal of Drupal + CiviCRM, but Joe wanted something simple he could show off today, point his domain at wordpress.com until he has more time to set up Drupal and stuff
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[chrisaldrich] We'll have to try to get Joe to join us up in LA in the future.
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gRegorLove Definitely, I was telling him there's HWC and an IWC sometime this year
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gRegorLove Maybe he'll come to Portland too. I promoted it at the end
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gRegorLove LinuxFest tomorrow! Should be interesting. First I've been to a conference like it
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[chrisaldrich] That's right... I forgot there was a reason you did thurs/fri...
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gRegorLove Hehe, yep.
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[chrisaldrich] The nice part is once you've indiewebified some simple pieces on wordpress, it's usually pretty straightforward to do something similar on Drupal (esp. if you know the CMS).
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gRegorLove It didn't really capture that crowd, though we really only had about a month to promote, so most had travel plans by then I'm sure
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gRegorLove We're pleased with the turnout. 7 yesterday, 6 today.
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[chrisaldrich] I wish I'd had more time to catch yesterday's discussions... it's been an odd week.
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[chrisaldrich] sounds like doing a single track probably worked well.
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gRegorLove I liked it. No FOMO :)
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[chrisaldrich] We did something similar in LA to compress the number of parallel conversations so we didn't have the FOMO factor as much either.
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[chrisaldrich] Did you get anything productive done on your own site? I remember having a productive pre-week and post-week at IWC LA, but didn't get much done on the actual day while helping out others.
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gRegorLove Just a little, met my "easy" goal, didn't touch my stretch goal. I fixed mutl-date event display. https://gregorlove.com/2017/05/indiewebcamp-bellingham/ was only showing the May 4th part
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Bellingham
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gRegorLove Still have 2 days this weekend, so I might get my stretch goal of fixing the upload class in ProcessWire to handle extension-less file uploads so I can post photos via Quill
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gRegorLove Oh, and a funny experience led me to realize my Contact page has been visible only to admins for over a year. Someone was trying to contact the organizers and my contact page to the public said "Coming back soon!" even though I'd set up the code for it quite a while ago, heh
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gRegorLove I'm almost always logged in, so never noticed
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gRegorLove Alright, time to recuperate. G'night.
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schmarty gRegorLove++ congrats on IWC Bellingham!!
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[eddie] Has anyone built IndieAuth into their website to allow others to "authenticate" who they are for an altered view of the page yet? I was thinking about it and what it would require, and I realized it's just like a micropub app but it doesn't need a "posting" scope. So then I started wondering, what the proper scope would be. "Identity" or something like that? Any explorations around here on that yet?
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aaronpk it's essentially like logging in to the wiki
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aaronpk basically you stop after you verify the auth code, and don't exchange the auth code for an access token
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aaronpk [eddie]: i know a few people have implemented that but i'm struggling to find links on the wiki
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sknebel [eddie]: https://indieweb.org/private#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronparecki.com edited /discuss (+8) "#indieweb-chat is bridged with Slack so promote it as the off-topic channel" (view diff)
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aaronpk sknebel++ there we go
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www.svenknebel.de edited /next-hwc (+0) "update to next weeks iteration" (view diff)
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[eddie] aaronpk: ohhh, that makes sense. Auth endpoint only, not the token endpoint.
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[eddie] sknebel++ thanks for the link!
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Loqi sknebel has 9 karma in this channel (28 overall)
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aaronpk yeah basically like using indieauth.com but discovering the auth endpoint that the user links to
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aaronpk i do want to flesh that part of the spec out more tho, and also confirm that i'm not missing any security issues there
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aaronpk openid connect has this notion of "id_token" where the token returned is actually a JWT, but i'm like 95% sure that's an unnecessary wrapping of the data
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aaronpk i'm trying to figure out how that got added to their spec, whether it's to address a specific security consideration or if it was just how it evolved
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[eddie] That makes sense. Thankfully having just finished the IndieAuth workflow of Indigenous, I was thinking it would be similar to that, I was just confused by the scoping part. But it makes sense that the auth endpoint is to prove who you are and the token endpoint is to "modify data" in essence, that you would only need Step 1, but not Step 2
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aaronpk at some point i'm going to draft all of this up as a proper IETF spec for the oauth working group, but i haven't figured out where to fit that into my schedule yet
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[eddie] I like the Red Wind example by Kyle Mahan on that page. Right now my site doesn't display visibility: private posts, so if I add the audience factor, I can have "eddiehinkle.com" as the audience for personal posts and then branch out from there for posts I want others to see. Which works because my Auth endpoint is IndieAuth.com, so that'll let me auth in to see my private posts and if anyone else auth's in, they could see posts with them in the
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[eddie] I'm pondering if I could add a "Facebook or Twitter" profile URL as an audience post for non-IndieWeb users, and then just have them auth against their respective social media, and verify the username matches their audience profile if
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aaronpk i was thinking that too!
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aaronpk i'm in the process of adding private posts, currently there is no login mechanism but if I send you a private webmention then you can see it during webmention verification
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aaronpk i was thinking about ways to expand that to let people log in, and the twitter/facebook thing definitely came up
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[eddie] Awesome, I was worried I'd get burned at the stake ? haha
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Loqi nice
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aaronpk lol there's nothing wrong with trying to interoperate with silos :)
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[eddie] I just didn't know when the line was crossed. Haha ?
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[eddie] That would be cool though, because that means if I have a photo album I don't want to put on Facebook but I want family to see, I could send them the link to my site, they can Auth through FB and see my photos, but all Facebook knows is someone got Auth'd
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aaronpk that's a great use case!
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sknebel hm sebastian lasse doesn't seem to be at any of the upcoming IWCs, AFAIK his indieauth clone supported that (logging in with a silo account only)
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sknebel or at least he wanted it to
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sknebel (indieauth.com clone, to be exact)
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[eddie] Ohhh interesting.
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aaronpk i sure wish i could rename indieauth.com before IWC next week
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miklb GWG what are your thoughts on maybe incorporating this into the core indieweb plugin? https://github.com/dcooney/wordpress-plugin-installer/ ? Looks like a nicer interface for sure. I'd handle sending a PR if you thought it would be worth doing
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[eddie] The interesting thing is typically you use the Auth endpoint of the user, so I guess in essence you would be building in "fallback" authentication support at the location of the host websites choosing.
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GWG Let me look
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aaronpk [eddie]: step 1 would be mocking up the UI for how you'd want that to work. I think that would be enlightening and would probably help figure this part out. I'd love to see that too since I haven't built any of this yet
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[eddie] Sounds good ?
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sknebel hm, sebastian doesn't have it public on github
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aaronpk the trick is avoiding the NASCAR problem while still allowing these options
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[eddie] What is NASCAR?
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Loqi The NASCAR problem is a reference to the jumble of branding icons on websites, e.g https://indieweb.org/nascar
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sknebel in general, he has build quite a few interesting things that he hasn't released because he wanted to finish/polish them
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aaronpk http://opensourcebridge.org/sign_in is pretty good but could probably be cleaned up a bit
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sknebel depending on the audience just allowing twitter.com/facebook.com/... profile URLs in the indieauth-domain field could work, I think that's what sebastian did
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[eddie] I think that's what I'm leaning towards
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GWG miklb: Screenshot looks nice.
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miklb GWG yes, that's why it caught my eye
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GWG I eliminated the plugins that come from the Github repos.
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GWG So, stable only.
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[eddie] I know it might not be super intuitive but I'm thinking just adding a small amount of text saying "enter either your IndieWeb, Twitter or Facebook profile URL" and a text field, but I'll try a mockup when I get a chance.
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[eddie] Then I'll have to run it by my wife, if it's confusing she's probably shoot it down ? the benefits of her not being super tech-savvy
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miklb GWG looks like it *can* support GH plugins, but by default only supports wp.org repo plugins
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[eddie] Hmm or if you say enter your indieweb URL or twitter or Facebook username, and then from there popup a NASCAR menu hidden behind basically an "invalid domain" parser
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[eddie] I'll have to play with it
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GWG miklb: I don't think, for the sake of new users, it should offer dev versions.
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miklb GWG I think I'll fork and test. If looks as good as the screenshot, I'll send a PR. I need to fork anyway to work on a h-card widget
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miklb GWG agreed.
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miklb GWG I'll also update the README if you've removed GH plugins
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GWG I updated the readme.
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miklb oh, "Note that some of these plugins may only be available on GitHub and are not yet on WordPress.org."
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miklb what was the argument for suggesting a personal URL shortener?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "argument for suggesting a personal URL shortener" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/short-domains#Why_personal_short_URLs
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miklb I guess I am wondering if it needs to be suggested plugin for someone getting started
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miklb WP does have a shorturl i.e. post ID already.
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GWG miklb: Before my time.
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GWG It is a nice one and I use it, but not strictly Indieweb.
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miklb certainly not questioning its quality, just looking at ways to reduce that list for someone getting started.
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GWG miklb: Exactly.
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miklb Right now that list is 10 plugins long…
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[eddie] I would agree that doesn't seem like a required plug to "get started"
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aaronpk same
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GWG miklb: 8 in the PR pfefferle just approved
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[eddie] Maybe it could be part of a "going deeper" list of suggested plugins
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[eddie] Kind of like indiewebmark has different levels
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miklb GWG which brings me to a question I have. That plugin is under /indieweb, but does pfefferle still have final say over what/when goes in it?
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GWG No
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GWG After our discussion of it last June when I committed and he disagreed, the plugin was set in review mode
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GWG In order for a PR to be accepted, it has to be reviewed by another individual.
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GWG So, no one can commit without someone else signing off on it
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miklb that sounds like a good idea.Is that documented anywhere?
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GWG Only in the parameters for the repo
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miklb I'm curious in general about the indieweb org. Like if I wanted to transfer the jekyll-indieweb repo…
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GWG That is a broader question
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miklb indeed
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GWG It is for community projects
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GWG I might ask aaronpk or someone who has been here longer their take on the Indieweb repo and what belongs in it
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aaronpk i don't actually remember who created it, but they forked a whole bunch of things into it to start, which was kind of a strange use of it
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aaronpk more as a way to "bookmark" relevant projects
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miklb oh, I see
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aaronpk i've actually started releasing more of my libraries under my own account as "p3k" projects
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aaronpk I don't think there should be very many "official" repos at all
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aaronpk tho the microformats parsers are a good candidate for being "official"/"community" projects
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[kevinmarks] Would silo.pub work for using Twitter/fb for private posts?
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GWG aaronpk, I always think of community as projects with multiple regular Contributors
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aaronpk multiple regular contributors is probably also a good metric. the other metric i'd say is if the project is implementing something that is well documented and has strong consensus, like the parsers
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GWG Do we have a wiki page for the repo?
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GWG To document this?
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miklb repo/GitHub organization
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aaronpk i don't think so
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GWG Wondering what to put it under
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miklb because that is confusing. If I see a repo in a community repo, I already assume it is "official"
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aaronpk maybe /GitHub to start
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GWG Either way, for now, I will brain storm a bit
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GWG miklb, while you are looking at the Indieweb plugin, I want to try and finish the Semantic Linkbacks upgrade
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miklb ?
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GWG miklb, it is another fix that I think will improve a lot
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miklb which?
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miklb what you are working on for sem linkbacks?
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GWG I have been working on it for a few weeks
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GWG On and off
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miklb better parsing, right?
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GWG Yes, but this is only the beginning
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GWG It fixes the mismention errors I think
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GWG Expands what top level properties it explores, stores properties in comment meta...
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GWG So, having more stuff available means a future effort can use it
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GWG I also liked the display idea someone did with using emoji for like as opposed to SVG... might be worth exploring. Although I don't emoji
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miklb I must admit, knowing now the wordpress-indieweb plugin isn't really an "official" community plugin and no documentation on contributing I'm thinking I'm just going to use that installer class with my theme
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GWG miklb, I consider it one. I think you should consider your proposal. I might see how it would look. TGM is not really my cup of tea
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miklb TGM?
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miklb GWG I will test the class, then look at adding to WP-IW
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GWG The plugin installer in the plugin now is Tgm
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miklb ah
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miklb oh, cool, so it is more of just replacing one class with another. I didn't realize that.
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wagle this page is not redirecting me: https://indieauth.com/auth?me=wagle.io&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fcognomancer.org%2Fwp-login.php%3Fredirect_to%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fcognomancer.org%252Fwp-admin%252F
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wagle .. how come?
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aaronpk which provider are you clicking there?
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wagle OOOoo.. no-one said I had to READ THE FINE INSTRUCTIONS.. sorry
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miklb are you trying to use one WP site to login to another on the same WP Network?
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wagle too obvious.. was thrown off by the copious mention of the redirection url
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wagle I'll get back if that dosnt work
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wagle in the middle of something else
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wagle "Your have entered a valid Domain, but you have no account on this blog."
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wagle probably inthe fine manual
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wagle lemme read first
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wagle just thought my "progress" was humorous
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