#dev 2017-05-09

2017-05-09 UTC
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aaronpk hmm
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 36 minutes ago: I think you have to link from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/10/1/ to the FB POSSE copy https://www.facebook.com/events/316913252058901/ with u-syndication to get it backfeed from Bridgy (and thus have your two FB RSVPs show up on your indie event!)
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aaronpk i have u-syndication there to the facebook event now
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dougbeal.com edited /Planning (+15) "/* Seattle */" (view diff)
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dougbeal.com created /Template:dougbeal (+141) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline| https://s.gravatar.com/avatar/4aef6f46cd0c5c51bbf5c15d4e66b35e?s=80}} [[User:Dougbeal.com|dougbeal]]</span>"" (view diff)
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dougbeal.com edited /wikifying (+306) "Nickname instructions" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /reply (+8) "/* Reply distinction */ linkify "comment"" (view diff)
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andrijevik.net edited /2017/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+198) "/* Official Guest List */" (view diff)
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ngin.de edited /2017/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+273) "/* Participants */ Added myself (Niels H.) as attendee" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /pronoun (+62) "[kevinmarks] added "https://twitter.com/jaythenerdkid/status/861666628160765952" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology edited /User:Unrelenting.technology (+224) "/* Projects */" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology edited /User:Unrelenting.technology (-75) "/* Projects */" (view diff)
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j4y_funabashi After a bit of a lull I have decided to get back to implementing SWAT0
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j4y_funabashi Starting with actually displaying all the webmentions I have collected
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aaronpk exciting!
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j4y_funabashi Just been looking through the notifications page on facebook and they actually have lots of cool interactions
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j4y_funabashi aaronpk: Yep should be fun :)
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j4y_funabashi Does anyone else have a page that lists all mentions received? I am starting with that before I add to posts and wondering how people mark that up
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@keithjgrant @snookca @beep @kitt I did too, but I got hit for 3rd party service that pulls my webmentions. Probably should open an issue for them (twitter.com/_/status/861962076570497024)
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aaronpk i don't think woodwind's pubsubhubbub subscriber is working
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tantek ugh
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aaronpk it's returning http 204 but i don't see the posts
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gRegorLove j4y_funabashi: I think a few of us do, though not sure what wiki page it's on. Mine is https://gregorlove.com/responses It's basic and needs some work.
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unrelenting.technology edited /sweetroll (+644) "the big sweetroll update" (view diff)
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j4y_funabashi gRegorLove: That's great thanks, do you show error/invalid mentions too?
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myfreeweb ← yes i finally updated sweetroll :)
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myfreeweb https://unrelenting.technology/notes/2017-05-08-23-14-52
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Loqi [Greg] Since 2017-02-01 I've been working on a big change to Sweetroll, the engine that powers this website, and today it's finally live, right here! (Also it's now on my newer VPS, hosted at prgmr and running HardenedBSD 11. The old one was FreeBSD 10 at D...
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aaronpk ooh
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aaronpk myfreeweb++
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Loqi myfreeweb has 1 karma in this channel (16 overall)
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gRegorLove j4y_funabashi: When I'm logged in they show up, yes.
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gRegorLove what is sweetroll?
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Loqi sweetroll is Greg V's engine that powers their website, unrelenting.technology https://indieweb.org/sweetroll
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myfreeweb lol i'm editing the wiki and i keep accidentally using markdown link syntax instead of the wiki one :D
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myfreeweb btw noticed that the wiki doesn't support distributed indieauth?
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aaronpk it does via indieauth.com
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aaronpk if you indicate an authorization_endpoint on your site, then indieauth.com finds it
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www.svenknebel.de moved /remoteStorage.io to /remoteStorage "canonical name"
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myfreeweb i mean it uses indieauth.com instead of indiecert for me
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aaronpk you should be seeing the indiecert option listed on indieauth.com if you've configured it properly
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aaronpk this is one of the super confusing things about indieauth.com
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www.svenknebel.de edited /remoteStorage (+44) "dfn, linkify" (view diff)
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Loqi I agree
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aaronpk thanks Loqi :eyeroll:
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myfreeweb listed? oh it can do that? nice, that 's a cool feature. but it didn't work
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myfreeweb maybe it can't read the link header?
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Loqi you're welcome
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myfreeweb woodwind and micropublish directly used indiecert for me
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aaronpk hm i do see rel=authorization_endpoint
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aaronpk i might have to double check the code on indieauth.com then, it looks like your site is set up right
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aaronpk you should be seeing it as an option above github.com
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unrelenting.technology edited /PostgreSQL (+936) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add Sweetroll" (view diff)
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aaronpk myfreeweb: ah I see the problem, indieauth.com is only checking the HTML page for rels, it's not checking the HTTP headers
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myfreeweb of course. you often do html only parsing :)
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aaronpk it's easier sometimes :)
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unrelenting.technology uploaded /File:sweetroll_live.png "Example of realtime for Sweetroll"
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unrelenting.technology edited /realtime (+565) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add Sweetroll" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology edited /server-sent_events (+121) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add Sweetroll" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /server-sent_events (+108) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek what is Sweetroll?
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Loqi sweetroll is Greg V's engine that powers their website, unrelenting.technology https://indieweb.org/sweetroll
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@chrisjdavis Also, now with microformatting! Still don’t have webmentions setup, but progress! (twitter.com/_/status/861987761426804737)
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schmarty hoho, yikes! the link at the top of server-sent events goes to a page with "No one in the Web Platform Working Group is actively working on this specification. For the latest version of Server-sent Events use the WHATWG's Living Standard."
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tantek schmarty - sounds like a good reason to fix the link?
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schmarty i needed to share my horror first.
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aaronpk oh funny
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aaronpk http://dev.w3.org/html5/eventsource/ is a redirect to https://w3c.github.io/eventsource/
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martymcgui.re edited /server-sent_events (+32) "update link to spec" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology uploaded /File:sweetroll_with_micropanel.png "[[Sweetroll]] with its admin panel (micro-panel) on top of the website."
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unrelenting.technology edited /sweetroll (+1234) "screenshot, more architecture description" (view diff)
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aaronpk all the good "lock" and "auth" and "login" domains are taken
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aaronpk is zerologin too close to auth0?
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sknebel don't think so. searching a new name for indieauth?
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sknebel (.com)
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aaronpk yeah, for one of the two uses of it
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aaronpk the other problem with "auth" is that it's short for both "authorization" and "authentication" and I want to clear that up as well
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sknebel ownyourauth(entication)?
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi hahahaha
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sknebel (to continue a pattern. and it sort of fits what the protocol does)
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sknebel under the label zerologin it wouldn't match my expectations I think
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tantek yeah
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aaronpk well there are two things
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myfreeweb yeah zerologin sounds more like one of those "passwordless" things like clef
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aaronpk i want to run it on two domains, and make a few stylistic changes
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aaronpk use case #1 is login-only, where software like the wiki doesn't want to deal with logging people in so it uses this as a service
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aaronpk in this situation, the users logging in don't have a relationship with the service
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aaronpk i want to also provide a way for the wiki using this service to brand the login page (or reduce the service's branding) so that it looks like it's part of that software
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myfreeweb "The new OpenID", like "the new iPad" :D
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sknebel (for reference, other proposals https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/138 )
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Loqi [aaronpk] #138 Rename the project
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myfreeweb LetYourUsersOwnTheirAuth dot org :D
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tantek one of the reasons why I came up with "Web Sign-in"
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tantek for exactly the use case of " where software like the wiki doesn't want to deal with logging people in so it uses this as a service"
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tantek also being reasonably explainable to users
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tantek less jargony than "OpenID"
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sknebel (AuthThemAll? logthem.in? just added to GH issue)
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myfreeweb DomainID… sounds bad but like BrowserID
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aaronpk use case #2 is where users specifically delegate their domain to the service, which is much closer to the openID services that used to exist. this requires that users add a link to the service with rel=authorization_endpoint
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sknebel that's where the "ownyour..." pattern would fit
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sknebel although it doesn't really match for a service your *delegating* it to
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sknebel so maybe not
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myfreeweb if you separate these use cases into two domains, there might be confusion like "is this site using the same thing that i set up on my site"
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aaronpk that use case is also beyond authentication and starts getting into authorization
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aaronpk the other reason i want to run them on different domains and make them look different is to avoid getting issues like this https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth-MediaWiki/issues/6
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Loqi [cweiske] #6 Support federation
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aaronpk the wiki *does* support federation, it just does that by letting indieauth.com handle it
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myfreeweb OpenID was one word that was used everywhere… people knew "this uses OpenID, my LiveJournal is an OpenID, i can log in here using it". so both domains should strongly refer to a common brand like… "Web sign-in" I guess
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tantek myfreeweb, yeah that was my thinking too, with hopefully something more accessible than OpenID
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tantek OpenID had the curse of both being too jargony, and too abstract
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tantek as a name
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aaronpk i also want to avoid using the name of the spec/technology in the name of the service, because that's what got me in to this situation in the first place
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tantek right, there was no "OpenID service"
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tantek there were various different OpenID providers that had their own names
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aaronpk at least myopenid.com started with "my"
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tantek even if it was something like "myOpenID" lol
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tantek yeah :)
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aaronpk mywebsignin lol
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schmarty mywebsign.in looks available :)
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tantek lol
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aaronpk I guess that's not the worst idea
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aaronpk Focusing both services on the "web sign-in" aspect is also good because that avoids conflating them with the IndieAuth protocol which is more OAuth than it is sign-in
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dansup .in doesnt have whois privacy iirc
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tantek .com is probably better rep etc for something auth/identity related
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tantek than a ccTLD
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aaronpk Or .net
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oliver.gutperl.de edited /2017/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+257) (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+488) "/* POSSE */ POSSE as mobile browser" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] "web login" except it sounds like weblogging
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[kevinmarks] though both login and signin are jargon. Can we step back a bit and define this in less plumbing terms?
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[kevinmarks] my last effort here was "URLs are people too"
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[kevinmarks] http://epeus.blogspot.co.uk/2008/01/urls-are-people-too.html
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[kevinmarks] what you're saying is "here is my site and i can prove it"
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tantek kevinmarks - no. both "log in" and "sign in" are UX copy that is common UI across websites
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tantek not plumbing
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tantek quite they opposite, they are a UI pattern that people in general are familiar with
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[kevinmarks] yes, but that is exactly what we are trying to eliminate, as it implies email and password
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[kevinmarks] you call it that and browsers helpfully autocomplete it and offer to save passwords
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[kevinmarks] I wonder what "it.me" would cost
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tantek yes you want browser to autocomplete your URL for you
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tantek that turns it into a 1 click sign-in
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[kevinmarks] do they autocomplete urls?
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tantek they autocomplete form fields in general
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[kevinmarks] my phone keyboard does now
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[kevinmarks] chrome suggests urls previously used on that url field on that site
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[kevinmarks] heresmysite.com is available
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[kevinmarks] also mylinkis.me
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[kevinmarks] mylinkis is broadly available - .com, ,net etc
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tantek is "link" any less jargony?
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tantek I came up with Web Sign-in because NYT recommendation to use "web address" in prose instead of "URL" as more widely accessible and understandable