#dev 2017-05-30

2017-05-30 UTC
[cleverdevil], KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks, dougbeal|mb1, eli_oat, eli and gRegorLove joined the channel
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gRegorLove GWG: Idea for WP webmention plugin: if pings are disabled for a URL, don't include the rel=webmention header for that URL.
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gRegorLove Just ran into a "Pings are disabled for this post" 400 response sending a webmention to manton's post
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GWG gRegorLove: I tried that. There was an issue and it was reverted
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eli_oat @gRegorLove — I saw something similar when I tried to send a webmention to a post on baty.blog
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GWG gRegorLove: Feel free to reopen the issue though.
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gRegorLove I'll leave it up to you guys. Nothing major to me; sounds like it's already on your radar.
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GWG I can't remember what the problem was though
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/commit/64da1a9dc129256d62fb5ca1f4d391bd4a6ff0ac
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aaronpk "...to prevent several problems"
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aaronpk wish there was some more specific information
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GWG I remember there were problems, but I can't recall what they were.
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GWG Bothers me.
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GWG Oh well, I am knee deep in restyling my post types.
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petermolnar ok, detecting reacji with python is waaaay easier than I thought
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petermolnar https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36216665/find-there-is-an-emoji-in-a-string-in-python3/36217640#36217640 actually works
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petermolnar the tricky part: there is no strip_tags in python :D
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vanderven.se martijn edited /events/2017-05-31-homebrew-website-club (+4) "/* West Europe */ Add Berlin HWC" (view diff)
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@eli_oat Testing webmentions ? https://eli.li/entry.php?id=20170530114716 (twitter.com/_/status/869523408329035776)
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loqi.me created /Urbit (+84) "prompted by petermolnar and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /recommendation_engine (+148) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme http://dissolve.github.io/jf2/#profiles
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ben_thatmustbeme just wrote that up this morning
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ben_thatmustbeme introduces jf2feed profile, which makes it very very similary to jsonfeed
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cweiske !standards
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Loqi http://xkcd.com/927/ http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, we all know that one
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ben_thatmustbeme at least getting them on the same vocabulary and bringing jsonfeed in to jf2 before is starts is better than having another seperate branch
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aaronpk re: https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-05-30/1496130636031000 Almost no websites support that. There is some work being done with OAuth around session management, so if you want to try to translate that extension to indieweb terms it'd be worth writing as an IndieAuth extension
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Loqi [cweiske] did you know that there is no way for micropub clients to tell the server that a token should be considered invalid?
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cweiske yes, we talked about that in nürnberg
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sknebel aaronpk: do you mean https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-session-1_0.html#RPLogout or is there something else?
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loqi.me created /sudo (+80) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /sudo (+45) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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aaronpk I think that's the one I was thinking of
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aaronpk tho let me check OAuth 2 as well
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aaronpk Possibly also https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7009/
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sknebel the latter seems simple enough, although I find it interesting that they require valid auth credentials to revoke a token
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aaronpk Looks like public clients only have to include the client id
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aaronpk For IndieAuth I'd be inclined to reuse the token endpoint for this request to avoid defining a new rel value
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sknebel that seems like a good idea
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, aaronpk, what language aware changes do you make for your versions of JF2?
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ben_thatmustbeme and is it only every representing a single h-entry?
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aaronpk language aware, like spoken language?
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ben_thatmustbeme err, sorry, vocabulary aware
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ben_thatmustbeme so like, category is always an array, url is always a single string, etc
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aaronpk exactly
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/blob/master/lib/XRay/Formats/Mf2.php#L291
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ben_thatmustbeme wondering if it makes sense to have a seperate profile of JF2 for h-entry that sort of codifies those
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aaronpk for each h-* object there's a list of which properties are arrays and which are single values
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ben_thatmustbeme oh interesting
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aaronpk xray supports h-entry, h-event, h-review, h-recipe, h-card, and h-product and h-item because they are used in h-review
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aaronpk oh and it knows which properties expect URL values which used to build refs
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ben_thatmustbeme ah, interesting that bit too
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ben_thatmustbeme so now that i am doing the JF2 profiles idea, i'm thinking of a JF2 Item profile
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aaronpk i could probably DRY up this code quite a bit now that this pattern has been established
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ben_thatmustbeme that would specify things like this
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aaronpk oh and only certain values expect HTML content
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ben_thatmustbeme oh interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme what do you think of
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ben_thatmustbeme http://dissolve.github.io/jf2/#jf2feed_required_fields
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ben_thatmustbeme specifically content: field
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ben_thatmustbeme was sort of my solution to jsonfeed's context_text vs content_html
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk i still prefer including both html and plaintext content
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@benwerd Between Micropub, Webmention, IndieAuth, WebPub, Activity Streams and ActivityPub, I'm excited to watch my friends create a more indie web. (twitter.com/_/status/869585807928991749)
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voxpelli aaronpk: I use my https://github.com/voxpelli/node-fetch-politely for all my requests
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Loqi [voxpelli] node-fetch-politely: Ensures polite outgoing HTTP requests that respects robots.txt and aren't made too close to each other
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tantek anyone have a POSSE editing step in their publishing flow?
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tantek e.g. when you publish a post, options in your UI to customize the automatic default text that you POSSE to Twitter, FB, etc.?
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tantek e.g. right now I often put @ or # in my article names because I know my code will be POSSEing the article name to Twitter, but that kind of contorts / pollutes the article name
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tantek so the use-case (for me) is: not having to use @ or # in a article name just for the sake of Twitter
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aaronpk I also want that and don't have a UI for it yet
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tantek ok cool. I wanted to capture it at least here in chat, and then perhaps write something up in /POSSE#Brainstorming
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tantek what is X-RateLimit-Limit
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "X-RateLimit-Limit" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel 25 hours until sknebel: ask sgreger about POSSE UI
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2017-05-31 7:29pm CEST (#6007)
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schmarty tantek: keeping platform-specific @s and #s out of places where it doesn't belong (like my site) is why i only manually POSSE
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aaronpk whoops, something is wrong with my webmention handling. my comment on adactio's post is causing his post to show up as a mention on my post
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/30/4/ownyourswarm
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] "The great thing about OwnYourSwarm is that I didn't have to do anything. I already had the building blocks in place" https://adactio.com/journal/12349
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aaronpk what part of what spec am i missing here?
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aaronpk what is comments presentation
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/comments_presentation
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tantek aaronpk, is your comment inside the "content" on his post?
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aaronpk no, he even properly marks up my comment in the "comment" property!
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /comments_presentation (-13) "fix multiple redirects" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh! I bet it's because my post has a link to his post in the content, and i bet my code is only checking for that case if it's a property such as an in-reply-to
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aaronpk yepyep that's it. I am only checking the in-reply-to property of my post. I need to expand that to check all properties as well as the post body
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tantek that sounds worth writing up!
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aaronpk hm, and i also just ignore webmentions that fall under that case
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aaronpk should i be doing anything with them? I don't even store them
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tantek which case?
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aaronpk not sure what to call this... a reciprocal webmention?
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aaronpk when i get a webmention back from a site i just sent a webmention to because it displays my comment
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tantek that's actually really useful!
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tantek because you know your comment was "accepted" as it were
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tantek especially when more folks start supporting / requiring Vouch
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aaronpk yeah, it's entirely possible i get the webmention quite later than when i sent it, such as if they moderate manually
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tantek indeed - if you do get it later, then it may be worth a notification?
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aaronpk true
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aaronpk so that's enough of a reason to store them instead of just skipping them like i do now
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tantek Definitely worth writing up in both "comments presentation" and "when should you send a webmention"
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aaronpk so then i need to store some flag that says not to display this webmention
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tantek wait really?
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aaronpk well, this looks wrong: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/05/30/4/ownyourswarm
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] "The great thing about OwnYourSwarm is that I didn't have to do anything. I already had the building blocks in place" https://adactio.com/journal/12349
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tantek is it possible to determine that it came from your own comment?
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aaronpk i guess at display time i could check if my post originated it but that check is not trivial (look at all properties of the post, plus parse the HTML and look at all <a> tags)
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aaronpk so i would want to determine that once and store the result
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tantek makes sense
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tantek it could also be a hint of salmention support right?
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aaronpk yes! it likely indicates the site that sent it supports salmention
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aaronpk ooh i have a fun idea
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aaronpk who was it that displays the status of webmentions they sent as hover tips over links in their posts?
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tantek what? that sounds very cool
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voxpelli Is it really required in Salmention to ping a page when that page pings you?
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aaronpk voxpelli: if you follow the algorithm you will do that
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tantek I do like the notification that the comment has been posted
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voxpelli aaronpk: well, if adactio had been supporting Salmentions in the same way as you do right now, then you would have an inf-loop of Salmention pinging right now, no?
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tantek that could translate into something you see in your own posting UI
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aaronpk voxpelli: no because my second webmention would appear as an update to him
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voxpelli aaronpk: yes, an update that your post has received a comment, and adactio will then notify you that his post has received another comment in its comments thread?
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aaronpk but his post didn't receive another comment
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voxpelli It received his post as a comment of your comment – Salmention do support nested comments, no?
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aaronpk but there's no nesting
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aaronpk the fact that both our sites support salmention right now and we didn't get into an infinite loop is a good sign
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voxpelli At least it is technically possible for it to become circular so that some one has to stop confirming their webmentions
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aaronpk i don't think so... because one or both will start seeing the other as an update instead of as a new comment
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voxpelli But also updates should trigger Salmentions?
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aaronpk only if the post changes
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aaronpk so if i receive a webmention taht doesn't cause my display to change, i don't send salmentions
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voxpelli Your post changed, it got a new mention?
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aaronpk but it didn't get a new mention, it got a notification that an existing mention was updated
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aaronpk and that didn't cause the display of my post to change
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voxpelli But when you first mentioned adactio, then that mention can't have been there?
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aaronpk there are a few webmentions exchanged, but it's not an infinite loop
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voxpelli Because one of you thankfully stopped showing mentions of mentions of mentions and so on
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aaronpk but now you're not making sense
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aaronpk nobody suggested ever *showing* mentions of mentions
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voxpelli Replace "mentions" with "replies" and I guess most would like to show replies of replies
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tantek replies to replies
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voxpelli yes, grammar ;)
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tantek :)
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voxpelli If a single person in a reply thread were to accidentally or maliciously in-reply-to a post later in the thread, then the pinging would be infinite if everyone were to confirm their pings
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voxpelli I know we have discussed this previously though, I guess we will eventually see it in practice
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voxpelli I do know my endpoint is vulnerable to participation in an infinite pinging circle, that's why Salmentioning isn't live in it
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ben_thatmustbeme repiles his replies :P
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention-brainstorming (+753) "brainstorming webmention sending status" (view diff)
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aaronpk so here are some thoughts about the various states of sending webmention i plan to track
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/Webmention-brainstorming#sending_status
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aaronpk the last one is when i get a webmention back like the earlier example
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voxpelli another note on that last one: didn't we conclude to stop sending webmentions to the comments of our posts?
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tantek that sounds familiar - possibly from IWC Brighton last year?
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voxpelli The reason of this wording in the wiki: "resend Webmentions to everything the original post sent webmentions to"
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voxpelli Yeah, that one and/or Düsseldorf
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tantek or maybe it was IWC Dusseldorf last year
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tantek yes! :)
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tantek pretty sure we captured the debate
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 47 (twitter.com/_/status/869622480541024256)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /chicken (+92) "/* Indieweb Examples */ ?" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /chicken (+32) "/* Articles */ linkfix" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Hey, authors. Use the extra two letters.
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gRegorLove There's not a shortage. :)
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Zegnat gRegorLove, extra two letters?
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gRegorLove The Indie Author group uses "indieauth" a lot in URLs and hashtags so it shows up here.
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gRegorLove Just seems like an odd shortening for them
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Zegnat Ah, for a second I thought you were commenting on chickens, gRegorLove ;)
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pfefferle good morning
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tantek good day pfefferle!
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cweiske pretty late for you to say morning :)
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pfefferle hey tantek hey cweiske
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pfefferle cweiske :)
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gregorlove.com edited /jsonfeed (+147) "/* Reader Support */ Breaker podcast app support" (view diff)
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Zegnat My PR got accepted on the Grav Webmention plugin, so any Grav users: expect an update to be rolled out soon
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ben_thatmustbeme Zegnat, what PR is that?
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ben_thatmustbeme or rather, what does it fix / add?
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Zegnat Fixed some problems with advertising the endpoint: https://github.com/Perlkonig/grav-plugin-webmention/pull/6
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Loqi [Zegnat] #6 Correctly stop advertising Webmention endpoint on ignore_paths.
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ben_thatmustbeme cool
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loqi.me edited /responses (+68) "tantek added "Example lists of responses by type: https://snarfed.org/responses" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Accelerated_Mobile_Pages (+398) "/* Criticism */ Kill Google AMP before it KILLS the web" (view diff)
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dougbeal.com edited /events/2017-05-31-homebrew-website-club (+15) "/* European time {{new}} */" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /tt-rss-micropub (+335) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /tt-rss-micropub (+45) "link to canonical place for it" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Tiny_Tiny_RSS (-23) "wikilink to plugin page" (view diff)
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tantek !tell benward if you get a chance, could you get broken Twitter dev site permalinks to redirect to their new pages? e.g. https://dev.twitter.com/terms/display-guidelines (ht: aaronpk )
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske.de uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:tt-rss micropub.png]]""
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cweiske.de edited /Micropub/Clients (+51) "/* tt-rss-micropub */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /tt-rss-micropub (+35) (view diff)
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tantek I wonder what the update semantics on such a micropub-delay-micropub service would be
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tantek e.g. after you post to it, but before its posting time, you want to edit (or cancel!) the post
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tantek do you just post to it again with the same permalink?
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tantek like you can do micropub updates to it as many times as you want before it posts on your behalf, and it will only post once at that time?
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tantek (with whatever state / update it last received?)
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tantek aaronpk: ^^^
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aaronpk i would imagine the service would hold on to the post until the scheduled date, and any edits would apply to the buffered post
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tantek makes sense
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tantek that would be quite handy for time-delayed POSSEing via silo-pub as well
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tantek e.g. +30s
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tantek rather than a specific time
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tantek so you could publish, and still have 30s to catch/fix a typo, kinda like Gmail's undo send feature
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tantek and after each update, the 30s clock resets, so you get 30s more to keep editing / tweaking
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tantek.com edited /p3k_naming_convention (+9) "/* Components of p3k */ use main template" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /events/2017-06-07-homebrew-website-club (+6526) "create page for first Wednesday of the month locations, for sure Portland" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+54) "add 2017-06-07" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2017-06-07-homebrew-website-club (+124) "/* US West */ add rsvp for portland, indie event, list below, aaronpk" (view diff)
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