#dev 2017-06-12

2017-06-12 UTC
eli_oat, tantek, [shaners] and [miklb] joined the channel
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tantek catches up on logs
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tantek GWG++ congrats! How long from "merging" until it lands in the WordPress Plugin Directory so it's easy for people to install / upgrade to?
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Loqi gwg has 8 karma in this channel (231 overall)
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GWG tantek: You'll have to ask pfefferle. I can't push anything.
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tantek GWG, we should discuss forking all the IndieWeb Plugins for "normal" users, vs. development users
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GWG Development users can use the Github version
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tantek in short, it takes too long for the work that you do, bug fixes, etc. to get deployed to "normal" users, and "normal" WordPress users will not bother with the Github version
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[miklb] I routinely test the master branches of the plugins
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tantek miklb++
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Loqi miklb has 3 karma in this channel (33 overall)
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[miklb] it would be nice if the IW plugins were more community than individual.
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tantek From what I can tell from the past two years, pfefferle is not really actively pushing updates to "normal" users, nor really shows any interest or maybe just isn't available to, so it makes sense to have someone who is active here do a "user" fork that is more response to bug fixes and updates
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tantek more responsive*
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tantek GWG, what do you think of forking the WordPress IndieWeb related plugins into the IndieWeb github org, and assigning multiple repo maintainers so we are not bottlenecked on a single person (per [miklb]'s point)
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tantek that way we can get more rapid releases out, and with multiple maintainers, you can review / approve each others's pull requests as well
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GWG Are there other people interested?
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[miklb] only thing about that is the fork would be a duplicate of a plugin already in the official WP repo
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GWG The Indieweb plugin is in the Indieweb github, and I'm the usual contributor.
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tantek [miklb]: except the admin/maintenence authority would move to this community
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GWG If other people were interested, it would be different.
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[miklb] that’s still up the plugin author.
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tantek instead of being bottlenecked with anything "official WP"
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tantek [miklb], right, that's the point of having a "user-focused" set of plugins that someone *active* is maintaining here
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tantek logcially it seems like GWG could do that part since he's very responsive and available
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[miklb] maybe just discuss with pfefferle about moving the plugin to the community repo
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GWG He reads the logs. He'll see this.
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[miklb] first.
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tantek [miklb] certainly open to it. I'd like to see this situation solved by IndieWeb Summit.
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tantek so we have two problems to solve:
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[miklb] @GWG I would gladly help with the WP plugins in a community repo
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tantek 1. being bottlenecked / greatly delayed on getting pull requests merged into WP plugins
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GWG [miklb]: You should be invited to the community. I forget who has permission to invite members
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tantek 2. being bottlenecked / greatly delayed getting "official" (WP directory) releases of plugins both initially, and responsive updates when bug fixes / improvements are made
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tantek miklb++ great you plus GWG makes two, and that's the minimum we need to make this work
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GWG The Indieweb WordPress Plugin repo is set to require a review by another maintainer to merge.
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[miklb] I think that’s a great idea
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tantek GWG, that's good if you have another responsive maintainer.
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tantek yes, seems like a good practice
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[miklb] fwiw, pfefferle has been pretty quick to merge and release plugin updates. I know there was a time before I was using WordPress where he had commitments,but I haven’t seen any long delays.
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[miklb] but longer term, I do think “official” community versions would be better.
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GWG He had some issues last year. But lately, he responds more quickly.
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GWG I put out a PR today, and he merged it tonight.
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GWG I still honestly think we just need more people interested in adding to the code.
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GWG I would like to suggest he transfer wordpress-uf2 to the community though. That project could use some attention.
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GWG Who has admin access to the github org?
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aaronpk almost everyone
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GWG So, I could invite miklb?
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aaronpk yes
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GWG It says I have to be an owner.
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aaronpk you should be
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Loqi +1
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GWG I think I found the setting. But it wasn't there before.
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aaronpk github permissions confuse me sometimes
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GWG I think I got him invited.
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[miklb] the organization permissions haven’t gotten more granular than initially
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[miklb] s/have/haven’t/
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GWG [miklb]: Either way...invitation sent
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[miklb] yes, I did see. ?
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aaronpk i still haven't adjusted to the permissions they added a couple years ago
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[miklb] the only another point I would make about having “official” community code is that it would be covered under the code of conduct.
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GWG [miklb]: How would the code of conduct apply to this?
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[miklb] I mean, if the code is part of the official org, then issues & PR discussions would be covered under the IW code of conduct.
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GWG Has there been a conduct issue?
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[miklb] Not that I’m aware of. That doesn’t preclude being prepared.
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GWG [miklb]: I'd like to have the problem of more people, to be honest
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[miklb] sure. one could argue community code repos would be more inviting to potential contributors
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GWG Wonder if chrisaldrich's WordCamp this weekend will net us any interest. He's a good promoter
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[miklb] on a different note, I’ve got a week at a rainy beach ahead of my this week so hope to do a lot of indieweb stuff.
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GWG [miklb]: What do you have in mind?
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[miklb] Work on the theme & I want to get some kind of check in working, either ownyourswarm or use your simple locations before I go to New Orleans next month
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[miklb] From mobile that is
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GWG [miklb]: I still never got the venue part built.
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GWG The next Simple Location addition is Locations for Comments. Same for Syndication Links.
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[miklb] mostly I think I want to work on getting the micropub location data passed
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GWG [miklb]: It is. Are you talking about when it is full h-card?
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[miklb] I didn’t think it passed the lat/long for making maps. I’ll have to look again.
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GWG [miklb]: It should, considering the settings.
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GWG It is possible it is setting it to hidden.
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[miklb] cool. I’ll have time to look closer.
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tantek glad to hear it [miklb] GWG (sorry for delayed reply - was en route)
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tantek GWG, maybe that's a good subject to bring up at IWS?
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GWG Which one?
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tantek reads back logs, realizes he missed a bunch
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tantek GWG transferring plugin repos to the community
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aaronpk it's always an interesting challenge determining what code should be community-owned vs on my individual github
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aaronpk i've been erring on the side of keeping things on my own account as part of "p3k" lately, mostly cause i'm not sure everyone wants to solve the problems the same way as me
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GWG wordpress-uf2 is an old repo. Maybe it is better to start fresh with that. It was meant to try and automatically add mf2. markup using filters and such.
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tantek aaronpk, agreed, that makes sense. similarly, cassis.js is *very* opinionated right now (maybe not in all the ideal ways), but in a way that makes sense to me, but may not make sense to others (in terms of coding on / in it)
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tantek this is great btw: https://cubicgarden.com/2017/06/11/decentralization-the-people-power-money-and-the-future-of-the-internet/ it's basically an invitation to submit talks/sessions for the fall Mozfest in particular on IndieWeb! (explicitly listed)
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Loqi [Ianforrester] Decentralization, the people, power, money and the future of the internet
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david.shanske.com edited /2017/Leaders (+242) "/* Sessions */" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /site-deaths (-3) "delicious export available directly from the site" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Delicious (+105) "/* How to export your data */ export re-enabled" (view diff)
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GWG Okay,
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GWG Breezing through syndication link support for comments. I may have more than I thought done for the Summit.
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Zegnat !tell GWG,[miklb] If you are bringing projects to the IndieWeb Org on GitHub please also consider https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues/39
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Zegnat] #39 Normalise licensing for projects in the IndieWeb GitHub org.
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pfefferle Zegnat thanks for the reminder, but all the potential WordPress plugins are MIT as far as I know
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Zegnat MIT is good in my book. Though I would still love to see the IndieWeb Org move towards PD
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Zegnat sknebel, I am planning to do some work on my wm endpoint today, including private wm. Are you available later today for some testing/consultation?
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pfefferle Zegnat I have no problems with CC0, but then I have to do some changes to my transferred plugins...
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sknebel Zegnat: I should be available most of the day, yes
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Zegnat Just something to keep in mind, pfefferla. I might try to resurface that issue again during IWS and see what the community thinks.
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Zegnat !tell kevinmarks any idea why my comment does not show my display picture? I thought Known did /authorship right, but maybe I’m wrong? http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/the-weird-thing-is-that-a-lot-of-phones-have
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] The weird thing is that a lot of phones have an fm radio in, but it is disabled
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GWG pfefferle: I did, however, agree with tantek that trying to solve the entire non-post mentions problem was overscoping when homepage mentions were the only one for which there was a specific rather than general use case, which is why I sent the PR.
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Loqi GWG: Zegnat left you a message 3 hours, 9 minutes ago: If you are bringing projects to the IndieWeb Org on GitHub please also consider https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues/39
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pfefferle GWG I understand, and I like the changes and already merged them... I only wanted to argue why it is still not live on the WP repo... and that is because of some issues with WordPress showing "duplicate comment" issues if bridgy sends webmentions to more than one URL with the same content.
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Zegnat pfefferle, is there a reason to not push to WP for every thing that gets merged? That’s probably what tantek hoped for: quick iterative updates, if you have 2 bugs and fixed only 1, still push it.
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pfefferle Zegnat with the review process, we wanted to lower the bug count... and as far as I know there was never a problem of blocking a bugfix for too long...
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pfefferle GWG has the possibility to release to the WP repo and I will add others if this is still not enough....
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pfefferle but I don't want to add various people and it does not fix the problem that there is not that much contibution ongoing...
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Zegnat I am not an user, so I can’t say I care too much, pfefferle :) Just trying to figure out where exactly tantek’s issue stems from.
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pfefferle Zegnat me too, thats why I wrote such a long response...
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GWG pfefferle, I haven't tested the duplicate content issue because I didn't enable home mentions
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pfefferle GWG ah ok, but I want to fix that before pushing it to the WP repo, because otherwise we produce a lot of issues...
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pfefferle GWG I will have a look later today, perhaps it is similar to the comment flood protection...
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GWG It may be something we can adjust
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[miklb] I need to do a refresher on gpl & compatible licenses
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Zegnat [miklb], you can pull almost anything in as a dependency within GPL, but the other way around quickly breaks down
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Zegnat GPL in a nutshell ;)
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loqi.me edited /CC0 (+79) "Zegnat added "https://creativecommons.org/2011/04/15/using-cc0-for-public-domain-software/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /CC0 (+138) "Zegnat added "https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/CC0_FAQ#May_I_apply_CC0_to_computer_software.3F_If_so.2C_is_there_a_recommended_implementation.3F" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /CC0 (+45) "Zegnat added "https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues/39" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Content_extraction (+121) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by sknebel" (view diff)
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 89 (twitter.com/_/status/874213088752435200)
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aaronpk something is wrong with my blacklist
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[miklb] Is it the URL/indieauth
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gregorlove.com edited /2017/Guest_List (+0) "/* Official Guest List */ update numbers. 10 spots left!" (view diff)
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tantek whoa really?
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tantek how are we doing the math these days? I cannot tell from 2017.indieweb.org due to indie rsvps vs dupes vs fb backfeed rsvps vs. normal tickets
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aaronpk i got rid of the facebook RSVPs
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aaronpk the tito count should be authoritative since everyone is supposed to register there
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tantek I have a feeling just like last year we have some indie rsvps w/o tito reg though
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tantek which I think is what gRegorLove updated ^^^
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aaronpk hm i'll have to check that
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aaronpk it'd sure be nice to consolidate all these RSVP options
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gRegorLove Previously I counted and removed the dupes. Noticed no dupes today.
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tantek or maybe indicate a flow? e.g. these folks have indie rsvpd but no tito ticket yet! please grab your complimentary ticket here!
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tantek gRegorLove: of the 18 indie RSVPs you counted, (and which are displayed on 2017.indieweb.org), note that the two black & white icons look VERY similar >:D (due to posting multiple indie RSVP posts ;) )
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tantek also did we ever figure out why Scott Jenson's indie RSVP was not being parsed by 2017.indieweb.org?
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gregorlove.com edited /2017/Guest_List (+0) "/* Official Guest List */ missed a dupe, tantek being sneaky. 11 left!" (view diff)
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aaronpk yes, there is an extra space in the href
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aaronpk <a href="https://2017.indieweb.org/ "
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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tantek oh right, and we didn't figure out if that was Known's fault or user error or both?
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aaronpk i think i left as soon as we got that far
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gRegorLove He's on WordPress
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aaronpk that was his known site
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tantek gRegorLove: he also installed Known
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gRegorLove Ah
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tantek because Known can RSVP without having to sftp/scp stuff around
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aaronpk heh
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tantek whereas right now if you want to post an RSVP with WordPress WITHOUT typing in markup, you have to install the latest Wordpress Post kinds plugin via github / sftp/scp command line voodoo
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tantek and that's not reasonable to ask of users
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tantek the WordPress indieweb situ for RSVPing is dev-only currently
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gRegorLove Right
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sknebel is it? I thought it was in the last release
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tantek sknebel: see the #indieweb logs - it was not as of when scottjenson tried to RSVP, and it was pretty clear that setting up WordPress to post RSVPs is like a twisty maze
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Zegnat tantek, where should I do my remove RSVP to? I didn’t want to mess up any counting on 2017.indieweb.org
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aaronpk what is rsvp?
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Loqi An RSVP is a reply to an event post that says whether the sender is or is not attending, might attend, or is just interested in the event https://indieweb.org/rsvp
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aaronpk is rsvp=remote a thing?
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aaronpk the site will only count "yes" RSVPs
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Zegnat Tantek has done remote: https://indieweb.org/rsvp#Remote_Participation
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Zegnat But that didn’t feel very authoritative (sorry tantek ;))
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tantek Zegnat I don't understand your question
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tantek no apology needed! definitely don't want my brainstorms / experiments to be considered authoritative!!!
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Zegnat tantek, I wanted to RSVP (I have cleared my schedule for IWC), but did not want to RSVP yes to 2017.indieweb.org because I am not taking a spot (I am 100% remote)
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tantek Zegnat - great point! Can you add a note / question to that extent in /RSVP#Brainstorming about "remote participation"? (create a new subsection on that topic if there isn't one already)
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Zegnat I can. I will.
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vanderven.se martijn edited /rsvp (+662) "/* Remote Participation */ What values for RSVP apply to remote." (view diff)
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Zegnat tantek: done
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tantek \o/
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@tupprparty @pfefferle @pfefferle webmention-test! (twitter.com/_/status/874331732245442560)
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gRegorLove Zegnat: In the meantime you can add yourself to https://indieweb.org/2017/Guest_List#Remote_Participants
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gRegorLove Have there been any FB-only RSVPs?
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tantek There were - I think aaronpk removed them
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Zegnat gRegorLove, I will say the same to you. I can. I will. ;)
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gRegorLove Hehe
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gRegorLove tantek: I ask because if so we should add them to https://indieweb.org/2017/Guest_List#RSVPs_from_Facebook
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gregorlove.com edited /2017/Guest_List (+27) "/* Participant Projects */ update my attendee card" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2017/Guest_List (+290) "/* Remote Participants */ Add Zegnat" (view diff)
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Zegnat gRegorLove: done
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gregorlove.com edited /2017/Guest_List (+78) "/* Participant Projects */ rsvp_url" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: regarding the laravel queuing and sending too many webmentions. I see what you mean. I have a way around it, but I really shouldn't have to do it this way.
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GWG I fixed the RSVP markup situation on Sunday
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GWG I need to update the Wiki
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vanderven.se martijn edited /events/2017-06-14-homebrew-website-club (-20) "/* European time */ I am home anyway. Lets do this!" (view diff)
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gRegorLove GWG++
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Loqi gwg has 9 karma in this channel (232 overall)
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[pfefferle] GWG what do you think https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/commit/3100d6942fd91fbd592a1ca5c4aee95268c494d6
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[pfefferle] GWG and https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/commit/6721547258c96619aae7346a4820145199dd3ef6
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GWG pfefferle, looks good
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tantek gRegorLove: this is the link I've been sharing with remote participation folks: https://indieweb.org/2017#Remote_Participation
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tantek which I now realize needs another emoji
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gRegorLove emoji all the things!
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4opqADW4.jpg
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[pfefferle] GWG what do you think about an wordpress-indieweb-debug plugin, so we do not have to ship debug code with webmentions and semantic linkbacks and some other plugins?
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tantek.com edited /2017 (+10) "/* Remote Participation */ moremojis" (view diff)
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Zegnat Dont emoji all the things. ?️‍? has been giving us headaches
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GWG pfefferle, what would be in it?
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GWG Other than my sldebug code?
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[pfefferle] the webmention debug stuff
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[pfefferle] and perhaps some more...
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GWG Hmmm
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GWG Will think about what else.
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[pfefferle] GWG so we do not have to ship debug/testing code
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loqi.me created /FreeOTP (+106) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /HOTP (+152) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /TOTP (+14) "wiki link 2fa" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /TOTP (-11) "dfn full name, acronym second" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /HOTP (+158) "dfn full name, acronym second, see also" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com moved /HOTP to /HMAC-based_One-time_Password_Algorithm "canonical name"
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gregorlove.com edited /Time-based_One-time_Password_Algorithm (+45) "/* See Also */ HOTP" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Time-based_One-time_Password_Algorithm (+85) "ben_thatmustbeme added "An updated @w3c working draft of JF2 just went out. Now includes JF2 Feed profile." to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Time-based_One-time_Password_Algorithm (+62) "ben_thatmustbeme added "https://ben.thatmustbe.me/article/2014/10/16/1/totp_and_you" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /HMAC-based_One-time_Password_Algorithm (+39) "Zegnat added "https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4226.txt" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Time-based_One-time_Password_Algorithm (+38) "Zegnat added "https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6238" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronpk I need to order the stickers tomorrow, so anyone who has thoughts should chime in now or forever hold your peace :) https://github.com/indieweb/branding/blob/master/logos/hex-stickers/hex-stickers.png
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tantek this is why not github issues
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aaronpk i don't follow
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tantek lack of feedback may indicate barrier / feedback desire mismatch
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tantek as in, I don't want to think about *creating* a specific issue for each possible thing to discuss
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gRegorLove Are those all separate hex stickers so we can arrange them however, or one sticker?
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aaronpk gRegorLove: separate stickers
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gRegorLove Nice!
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tantek aaronpk: short version: POSSE, IndieWebCamp, IndieAuth look good
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tantek WebSub I don't understand what a old-style stereo LED frequency indicator has to do with WebSub, nor the parallelogram below the text
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aaronpk the little squares are subscribers, and the line (hub) is keeping them from overwhelming the publisher
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tantek "Microformats" should not be capitalized, and I guarantee that tilting the text like that will get people to *align* the text horizontally and thus misalign the logo. we've already seen this with the previous microformats stickers
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gRegorLove Same on WebSub, that's my least favorite.
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aaronpk '"Microformats" should not be capitalized' ?? i never knew that
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gRegorLove Otherwise I generally like them. Would be nice if the font size / placement for each, but realize that's probably not possible (easily)
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tantek so "Microformats" should be "microformats", and the text should be horizontally aligned with the bottom of the logo so people line it up correctly. also should be "microformats.org" TBH
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aaronpk http://microformats.org/wiki/about is pretty inconsistent with the capitalization
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Loqi About microformats | Thanks | People | Colophon Designed for humans first and machines second, microformats are a set of simple, open data formats built upon existing and widely adopted standards. Instead of throwing away what works today, microform...
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tantek Micropub: I don't understand why Micropub is a road, or a runway, that makes no sense
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aaronpk same with http://microformats.org/about
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sebsel All the other stickers are in one color, but microformats has multiple (even gradient?) that looks off.
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tantek aaronpk, no it's lowercase microformats, where do you see any inconsistency?
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sebsel Micropub and Webmention really look like space-age tribes
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sknebel why IndieWebCamp and not IndieWeb? (just IW would fill the center of the hex better maybe?)
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[cleverdevil] Can you make one of them a bikeshed?
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Loqi [cleverdevil]: [eddie] left you a message 1 day, 22 hours ago: FYI your template for reviews https://cleverdevil.io/2017/things-3-is-a-perfect-match-of-form-and-function needs it’s p-name fixed. It’s just grabbing all of the entry content for the name ? (http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcleverdevil.io%2F2017%2Fthings-3-is-a-perfect-match-of-form-and-function)
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sknebel :P
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[cleverdevil] I'd like to talk about what color it should be, too.
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tantek agreed with both sebsel and sknebel
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[cleverdevil] is kidding.
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gRegorLove [cleverdevil]++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 3 karma in this channel (36 overall)
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tantek thought so :P
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[cleverdevil] Ooh, thanks eddie!
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aaronpk sknebel: not ready to commit to the "IW" idea as the logo, it doesn't have the right balance as "IWC"
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tantek aaronpk, then why not make IWS stickers for the summit?
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sebsel I agree on WebSub being too... well it can be simplefied.
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tantek S similar to the C, just two Cs, the bottom reversed, compressed etc.
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gRegorLove "IWS" would also require rebalancing probably
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aaronpk there's no "just"
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tantek lol true
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tantek "no just", "no stickers"
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aaronpk really don't think that would work with the S instead of C
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tantek Webmention looks like a weird 90s techno flower
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gRegorLove Plus balancing longer "indiewebsummit"
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tantek gRegorLove: no you line break at IndieWeb / Summit
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tantek and center-align
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sebsel yeah, leave the C. only 'IndieWeb' is better, but you need the circle to let the rest make sense.
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gRegorLove Eh
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aaronpk this is why github issues work better :) now there are 3 discussion threads happening here
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sebsel :D
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/branding/issues/9
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Loqi [aaronpk] #9 Microformats hex sticker
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tantek I typed "What could also be cool as a " and then got distracted and forgot what I was going to say
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tantek aaronpk, the problem is the need for initial rapid discussion to even find out how many issues / threads there are
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/branding/issues/11
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Loqi [aaronpk] #11 Micropub hex sticker
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/branding/issues/10
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Loqi [aaronpk] #10 Webmention hex sticker
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tantek what is webmention
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/Webmention
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sebsel this is the IRC+Wiki model, right? discuss, then capture.
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tantek sebsel right
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tantek aaronpk: this webmention logo makes sense, is evocative, and VERY simple to work with any color combo: https://indieweb.org/File:webmention-logo.svg (the one on the /Webmention page)
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tantek so let's just stick with that instead of abstract art
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gRegorLove +1 I like the W-arrow
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tantek (being terse just to get quick points out there - apologies for the abruptness sounding, but you said we have just today)
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aaronpk I never intended the W-arrow to be the webmention logo, it was supposed to be just for webmention.io, but i guess it's kinda stuck
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tantek Honestly a similar M with a downarrow on the rightmost leg of the M would work great too, indicating client down to the server
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tantek for Micropub obv
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gRegorLove Though I'd be interesting in seeing a variant where the arrow "sides" are perpendicular to the line of the "W"
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gRegorLove if that makes sense.
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aaronpk i can't picture that
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tantek gRegorLove: I know what you mean, yet I think the angle is key to indicate the time axis implied
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tantek it's like a network traffic diagram turned sideways - that's why the W with arrow works like that
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gRegorLove It wouldn't line up with the top-middle lines of the "W" though I guess
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gRegorLove Ah, not familiar with that
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tantek except with the W, the x-axis is time, whereas with network traffic diagrams, the y-axies is typically time (downward indicating further in time)
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tantek looks up an example
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gRegorLove It's fine, not time-sensitive. Other logo feedback is.
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tantek gRegorLove: e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TCP_CLOSE.svg
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Loqi TCP CLOSE.svg
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tantek rotate that 90deg counter clockwise
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aaronpk hah
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gRegorLove Not suggesting the angle of the arrow change
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tantek aaronpk: wait you didn't realize this when I described the idea to you in the first place? I thought I made that clear!
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aaronpk i made the W-arrow because I originally had a P-arrow for pingback.me and when I renamed that to webmention.io I just turned it into a W
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tantek aaronpk: I specifically remember describing the analogy of the W with the arrow to network traffic to you - we discussed this with V for Vouch similarly!
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aaronpk like a backronym?
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aaronpk is there a term for that for design?
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tantek aaronpk: another relatively "simple" set of graphics for Webmention and Micropub: use the first letter "M" and "W" as shaped on micropub.rocks and webmention.rocks, and put their starburst behind it
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tantek and then put "Micropub.rocks" as the text as well as "Webmention.rocks"
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tantek I know that's a little different / site vs. term
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tantek However, it's a great place for people to start and see, oh this is real!
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aaronpk https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/719410954497200128/rXuEEpQu_400x400.jpg
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tantek instead of a spec, or whatever google comes up with
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aaronpk https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/786336434282123264/HCVaBXyr_400x400.jpg
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tantek YES
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aaronpk like that but in a hex?
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tantek nailed it
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tantek they also "pop" nicely among other bland tech stickers
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tantek and then the ".rocks" domain is self-describing
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gRegorLove That webmention arrow is what I mean ^^
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aaronpk hm they will be quite different from the others since they'll have multiple colors
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gRegorLove It's perpendicular to the last stroke of the W
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sebsel yeah, it was my concern with the Microformats logo, but then going the other round
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tantek aaronpk I think that's ok for this hurried round
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tantek especially since those are existing graphics that represent things we can draw attention to
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tantek and want to
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tantek instead of completely new graphics that are abstract and mean nothing to nobody
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tantek is using too many negatives
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sebsel I like the webmention W, in it's form like here https://indieweb.org/File:webmention-logo.svg , so +1 for that.
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aaronpk i guess that'd be the difference between a "webmention" sticker and a "webmention.rocks" sticker
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sebsel yeah you don't want to get into an IndieAuth.com-situation again
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tantek aaronpk: I guess I'm saying it's OK if we have webmention.rocks and micropub.rocks stickers because both of those are awesome sites worth promoting
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tantek since we don't have actual logos for Micropub and Webmention *today*
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tantek (though we could use the Webmention W^ arrow
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tantek and make up a Micropub Mv arrow
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tantek )
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gRegorLove Maybe for /2018 we can up the IndieWeb Bingo game by each attendee bringing their own site's stickers and trade. :)
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sebsel I want little silo logo stickers to paste into the corners of the POSSE sticker
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aaronpk ha
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tantek Personalize your POSSE™
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tantek looks at websub.rocks
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aaronpk was in a rush with that one
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aaronpk it's just the webmention.rocks W without the arrow
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[cleverdevil] Hmm, I don't actually see the issue in my markup that eddie mentioned...
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/2017/things-3-is-a-perfect-match-of-form-and-function
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Loqi [Jonathan LaCour] Jonathan LaCour ...
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[cleverdevil] http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcleverdevil.io%2F2017%2Fthings-3-is-a-perfect-match-of-form-and-function
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[cleverdevil] Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
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gRegorLove [cleverdevil]: It's an h-review inside an h-entry, which might be Known's default, not sure.
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tantek aaronpk, for legacy: https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/1208576?v=3&s=280
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aaronpk oh yeah i remember that
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tantek logo of https://github.com/pubsubhubbub/
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[cleverdevil] Hmm... yeah, it is the Known default.
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tantek if you want to look at inspiration
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[cleverdevil] Is that actually a problem?
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gRegorLove The h-entry doesn't have an explicit p-name so when parsing the h-entry implied name is the plain text of the review instead of the title of the review.
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gRegorLove The top-level h-entry isn't really necessary
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aaronpk i would go farther and say the top-level h-entry is incorrect
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aaronpk the top-level object should be the h-review
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gRegorLove Good point. I'd agree.
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tantek aaronpk - would be cool to give a nod to PubSubHubbub with a limited edition cross-over sticker
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[cleverdevil] Ok.
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tantek same logo, new name :)
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[cleverdevil] I'll have to see if my plugin can somehow instruct Known to *not* include the h-entry.
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gRegorLove I think it's a bug with Known core?
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[cleverdevil] Could be.
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[cleverdevil] My plugin doesn't include the text "h-entry" anywhere.
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gRegorLove Is review a core post type?
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[cleverdevil] But, there may be a way for my plugin to tell Known "don't do that."
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[cleverdevil] Not sure.
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[cleverdevil] No, this is a plugin that I've created.
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gRegorLove Ahh
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tantek also I can't be bothered to lookup Markdown's crappy image syntax
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tantek markdown--
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Loqi markdown has -1 karma in this channel (-6 overall)
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[cleverdevil] However, many core types are in fact implemented as plugins.
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tantek markdownimagesyntax--
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Loqi markdownimagesyntax has -1 karma
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[cleverdevil] (reStructuredText FTW)
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aaronpk lol
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[cleverdevil] Speaking of bikesheds.
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[cleverdevil] LOL
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gRegorLove [cleverdevil]: It should be possible. Events have a top-level h-event, e.g. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwerd.io%2F2017%2Fhomebrew-website-club-june-14-2017
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[cleverdevil] Yes, I see it.
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[cleverdevil] I think I need to implement getMicroformats2ObjectType on my Review object.
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[cleverdevil] Sec.
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[cleverdevil] I think I fixed it.
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gRegorLove What is Reviews for Known?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Reviews for Known" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[cleverdevil] Can someone check my work?
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aaronpk yes! h-review is the top object now
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aaronpk now your'e just missing classes around the review title and description
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[cleverdevil] \o/
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tantek aaronpk - do you have any Webmention.rocks or micropub.rocks stickers left? Also I noticed that the Webmention.rocks sticker I have does not actually say what it is
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gRegorLove Reviews for Known is a plugin that adds [[review]] post types to [[Known]] https://github.com/cleverdevil/Known-Reviews
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Loqi ok
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Loqi [cleverdevil] Known-Reviews
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loqi.me created /Reviews_for_Known (+147) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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[cleverdevil] Okay, aaronpk, thanks, I'll take a look at that.
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aaronpk oh wait [cleverdevil] it looks like there's an extra h-review now
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I know why.
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[cleverdevil] Removing it ?
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aaronpk that should clean it up
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gregorlove.com edited /Known (+24) "/* List of Plugins */ Reviews for Known" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, which makes me think that new hex stickers for both micropub.rocks and webmention.rocks is the way to go for this round - so there are stickers with those URLs on them. we need those anyway, and the design is fairly well defined
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[cleverdevil] Okay, try now.
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tantek which then implies we might as well do websub.rocks as well since that's also a test suite / nice front door to a spec
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aaronpk is there no URL on the existing webmention.rocks sticker??
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aaronpk i don't have any micropub.rocks stickers yet
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gregorlove.com edited /Reviews_for_Known (+2) "link dfn" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk no URL, just the diecut W on the starburst
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aaronpk [cleverdevil]: better! i see two h-cards now but everything else looks good
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[cleverdevil] OK
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aaronpk tantek: funny, i thought i had tiny "webmention.rocks" on the line inside the W https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-06-12-15-29-27.png
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tantek aaronpk, I like green for the IndieAuth sticker color because it is reminiscent of the green lock of https in browsers
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aaronpk it's probably super tiny tho cause those stickers aren't very big
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tantek aaronpk, yeah that is there, totally missed it the first three times I just checked the sticker on my laptop :P
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[cleverdevil] I think I fixed it once and for all, now.
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Zegnat Just reading through the graphics discussion before bed and wanted to discourage an M-downwards-arrow for Micropub. Sounds a lot like the markdown logo.
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gregorlove.com edited /Known (+29) "/* New content types */ see Reviews for Known" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Ah, yeah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown#/media/File:Markdown-mark.svg
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[cleverdevil] FWIW, gregorlove, I actually have implemented a bunch of those...
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[cleverdevil] https://github.com/cleverdevil/Known-Recipes and https://github.com/cleverdevil/Known-Watching and https://github.com/cleverdevil/Known-Food
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Loqi [cleverdevil] Known-Recipes: Recipe plugin for the Known CMS.
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aaronpk how about an M with this kind of arrow https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-06-12-15-36-38.png
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gRegorLove Nice! Yeah I think that section might be pretty old. Think there's core plugins for video and audio. I def saw benwerd demo audio posts a couple years ago
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aaronpk might work better with an M with straight sides
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tantek like here? http://markdownpad.com/img/blog/markdown1and2logos.png
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aaronpk hahaa
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Loqi ahahaha
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[cleverdevil] Thanks for the feedback, folks. I've added some tasks for myself to clean up extraneous h-cards and audit the microformats in all of my plugins.
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[cleverdevil] (In Things 3, of course)
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gRegorLove Things 3?
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gRegorLove Todo software?
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[cleverdevil] Its a task management app for macOS and iOS.
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[cleverdevil] Yup.
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gRegorLove Cool
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[cleverdevil] And the subject of the h-review we were auditing earlier ?
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sebsel lol, that MP-with-arrow is a really good logo for Micropub :)
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sebsel Things 3 is great! They launched it during IndieWebCamp Nürnberg, I was in awe.
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[cleverdevil] Its awesome. I do wish it had more sync options, but overall, its fantastic.
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