#dev 2017-06-16

2017-06-16 UTC
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@WendyandCharles eBooksHabit: All they have to do is survive a pirate attack and each other. TRUST AND TREACHERY #scifi #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875505130501754882 (twitter.com/_/status/875505518143524864)
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@WendyandCharles eBooksHabit: All they have to do is survive a pirate attack and each other. TRUST AND TREACHERY #scifi #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875512281286807552 (twitter.com/_/status/875513077231431680)
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@WendyandCharles eBooksHabit: All they have to do is survive a pirate attack and each other. TRUST AND TREACHERY #scifi #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875532022780973056 (twitter.com/_/status/875533244778901505)
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tantek oh
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Loqi tantek: Zegnat left you a message 14 hours, 8 minutes ago: with yesterday’s conversation in mind, I worked on the next fortnightly event page, what do you think? Haven’t done any picking of “regular” meet-ups yet. https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=37575&oldid=37216&rcid=37488
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tantek !tell Zegnat: interesting. And looks cleaner. Still think we should keep "TBD" for the regularly reliable HWCs even if they chance venues
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next HWC" (view diff)
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@WendyandCharles eBooksHabit: All they have to do is survive a pirate attack and each other. TRUST AND TREACHERY #scifi #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/875539947943546880 (twitter.com/_/status/875540803032158210)
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gregorlove.com edited /Tung (+10) "link dfn" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Sitedown (+2) "link dfn" (view diff)
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Zegnat Open question to all webmention endpoint implementers: if you return a status page for a webmention, how do you handle repeat mentions (e.g. caused by an update)? Same status page / same ID, or treat it as a completely new mention?
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Loqi Zegnat: tantek left you a message 7 hours, 36 minutes ago: interesting. And looks cleaner. Still think we should keep "TBD" for the regularly reliable HWCs even if they chance venues
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sknebel IHMO they should be different, with maybe the exception of if you merge their processing (e.g. because a second mention is received before you've processed the first)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+26) "/* Where */ Re-enable Brighton, London, and San Francisco for being "regularly reliable". Introducing "just show up" as RSVP option." (view diff)
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sknebel we maybe also should get rid of the West Europe vs UK thing
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Zegnat !tell tantek I brought back the "regularly reliable" venues on /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club and adapted Brighton's "just show up" syntax on the RSVP line (sounds welcoming I think). Is SF friendly to drop-ins too? Or does Mozilla require a list of attendees?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat sknebel, right out the main difference between those two headers is timezone.
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Zegnat I am not sure about the US, but aren't the way the headers are done there also timezone based?
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Zegnat I would like to go through and normalise timezone notation at some point. Maybe on my commute back home later today.
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sknebel Zegnat: well, then Fort collins needs an extra header
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sknebel and I don't see a reason to split by timezone
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Zegnat I am not opposed to merging UK and EU, don't get me wrong, not sure where the notation come from. I think tantek introduced them?
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sknebel In the US I kind of get people thinking in East vs West, but in Europe I don't think many use that mental pattern outside maybe really eastern europe
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Zegnat Yeah, Eastern Europe for me begins East of Poland and South of the Baltics.
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sknebel so I'd vote for removing that split for now
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Zegnat Actually, I don't ever think of a Central Europe. Only North-vs-South, West-vs-East.
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sknebel right, berlin for many would be central :P
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sknebel anyway, gotta run
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Zegnat We should discuss this when more of us are online. But I think my vote is for merging as well.
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Zegnat Have a good one!
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vanderven.se martijn edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+41) "/* Topics */ Hopefully everyone will discuss IWS!" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Isn't the timezone called Central European Time?
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[sebsel] yeah, but CET is just very big and covers a lot of Europe already. I think that’s why we don’t think in timezones. I can feel Londen being different from Berlin, but always forget that Portugal is in GMT as well https://savvytime.com/static/images/timezone/cet.png
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[sebsel] Or well, I don’t forget, but it doesn’t feel so separate from Spain ;)
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Zegnat I don't even know what timezone Iceland is in. Same as UK?
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 28 (twitter.com/_/status/875551818612453376)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+33) "/* London */ London is changing this week." (view diff)
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jonnybarnes Zegnat: yup, Ireland is the same as the UK
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jonnybarnes otherwise people crossing the Ireland/Northern Ireland border woulc get very confused :)
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sknebel I*c*eland is in GMT as well ;)
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jonnybarnes I know Ireland has IST instead of BST though
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jonnybarnes same difference they kust don’t want to call it British
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sknebel oh, right. iceland doesn't have summertime, so it's not the same as UK all year
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Zegnat So Iceland is stil UTC while the Isles and Portugal are on UTC+1 right now?
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sknebel yes
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Zegnat Good on Iceland.
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sknebel in places close to the arctic circle the summer time thing really isn't all that useful
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aaronpk Iceland is UTC because time doesn't matter there
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aaronpk it's gonna be light til ridiculous hours or dark all the time half the year so timezones aren't really important at that point
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Zegnat I wish Sweden had gotten that memo
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schmarty lol @ "time doesn't matter there"
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aaronpk hehe
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aaronpk more realistically, it's more convenient to be synchronized with part of europe than it is to be technically correct according to the position of the sun when the time of day has little effect on how much daylight hours there are
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aaronpk tho given how many icelandair flights were delayed by 30-90 minutes today it's quite possible that icelandic clocks run at randomly varying rates and everyone just sort of hopes things work out in the end
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Zegnat It can be helpful though. IWS is going to be on Swedish midsummer. So even if I begin my day at 5pm local time to match PDX, sun will be out.
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sknebel eli_oat: curious, have you tried dat for anything? I've been eyeing a bunch of these things, but haven't looked into dat yet
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eli_oat sknebel: I haven't used it for heaps yet, just playing with it locally
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eli_oat Still trying to wrap my head around it
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[eddie] aaronpk: Currently I’m making my checkin maps on-demand. I need to start saving those to my server instead. It seems that you just name your map map.png and put it in the folder with your post.txt. Do you make any notes in your YAML that there is a map or is it based on some type of “post-type-discovery”
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aaronpk yep exactly, i have files called "map.png" everywhere, as well as "photo.jpg" for my photo posts. I have a property in my YAML called "map-image" which tells it the filename.
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aaronpk the only problem i've ran into with this is it doesn't let me save two different map images, which i kind of want to do. (a thin one for list views, and taller one for permalinks)
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aaronpk i can always extend the "map-image" property to support nested objects with different dimensions of images later tho i guess
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[eddie] ohhh okay. So your code doesn’t assume the file name, you add the filename into YAML. that’s smart. (Yeah, I’ve been thinking through numbering my maps because I have a different image for my checkin background than my checkin preview in a feed).
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aaronpk yep! i've tried to have less "smarts" like that in my code
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aaronpk flattening it out sorta
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[eddie] yeah definitely. That helps if you change things going forward because you don’t have to remember all the alterations over time
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[eddie] you can just read the YAML and do what it says
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aaronpk yep, that was one of the big changes from the last version of my site
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[eddie] That’s good. It’s not my default method of thinking, but I can see how that really simplifies the code and future code changes, so I try to course correct when I see or detect that
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aaronpk yeah mine either. I learned relational database design long ago which tends to work the opposite way so i've been working on unlearning that
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[eddie] lol yep ?
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aaronpk this talk i'm giving tomorrow is turning into a talk about Micropub
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Zegnat I thought it was quantifiedself?
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Zegnat Well, I guess your tools, like Teacup, use Micropub
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aaronpk exactly
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kaja.sknebel.net created /User:Kaja.sknebel.net (+29) "Hello Indieweb!" (view diff)
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sknebel aaronpk: ^^^ that was completely automatic :)
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aaronpk Whoa
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aaronpk nice
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GWG I wonder if my longest trip away from home is a motivator to improve​location support.
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GWG I have had it on my list for 3 years now
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2017-06-16-google-photos-js-dr.png]]""
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tantek.com edited /Google_Photos (+160) "Issues / js-dr" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /js;dr (+179) "/* Silo Examples */ Google Photos" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Google_Photos (+2) "dfn, explicitly note js;dr" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+80) "/* US West */ No Bham" (view diff)
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Zegnat gRegorLove, why the extra whiteline before the virtual header? ^^^ (Asking, before I accidentally change it back...)
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gRegorLove Think I just moved a closing HTML comment
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gRegorLove Go for it
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gRegorLove Oh, weird. I don't think I added that, but it's in the diff.
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Zegnat Yeah, I was checking the diff. Trying to keep that event extremely clean so we can discuss the wiki format at IWS Leaders
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+136) "/* How To Add An Event */ note p-location h-card for /this-week" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+40) "/* London */ minimal p-location so "London" shows up in /this-week" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Bah, let me retry that
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+39) "/* London */ p-location h-card" (view diff)
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Zegnat We can also keep p-country-name in there, maybe, gRegorLove?
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sknebel Zegnat: I'd keep Virtual listed as "virtual" or some variation, talky.io isn't very clear
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+45) "/* London */ country" (view diff)
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Zegnat sknebel, I am trying to come up with a clever (read: hacky) way of it showing up as something like “Virtual CEST”
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gRegorLove I think just <span class="p-location">Virtual CEST</span>
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sknebel just <a href="talky.io ...." class="p-location"> Virtual (CEST)</a> and be done with it
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sknebel (the link is of course not necessary
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sknebel really wants to teach Kaja to POSSE HWCs, now that it can manipulate the wiki
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Zegnat Lets first get this syntax locked down, sknebel ;)
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gRegorLove The this-week consumer will use just a string, so p-location is the minimal viable mf2
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www.svenknebel.de edited /IRC_People (+41) "/* Nicknames */ add Kaja (my bot)" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+56) "/* European time */ p-location with timezone (hacky? maybe!)" (view diff)
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gRegorLove when is next-hwc?
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Meetup is on 2017-06-14 at ttt Werkstattraum https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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vanderven.se martijn edited /User:Vanderven.se_martijn (+7) "/* Introduction */ Moved. Again." (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "2017-06-20" (view diff)
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Zegnat Now we wait for the newsletter to go out and we’ll know if we fixed everything up nice :) If we are no longer going to allow TBDs on the page we know that all cities are basically confirmed (unless some late cancellations come in) so we should make an effort to get them in the newsletter.
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Zegnat This might also have to move the “deadline” for organisers to put their events up to Friday instead of Sunday. tantek writes a Moz newsletter on Monday, but the IndieWeb newsletter is pretty important too.
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tantek Zegnat, I think that's a good idea
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Loqi tantek: Zegnat left you a message 11 hours, 46 minutes ago: I brought back the "regularly reliable" venues on /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club and adapted Brighton's "just show up" syntax on the RSVP line (sounds welcoming I think). Is SF friendly to drop-ins too? Or does Mozilla require a list of attendees?
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tantek Yes, SF is friendly to drop-ins (both MozSF and Matter.vc)
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tantek and yes, it helps to make that clearer and thus more friendly
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gRegorLove Does no more TBDs mean all cities are hidden by default on new event pages?
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vanderven.se martijn edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+30) "/* Where */ Just show up to SF!" (view diff)
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Zegnat gRegorLove, we were discussing to keep “regularly reliable” on display by default. Those with a fixed venue. So the page wont be empty.
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Zegnat Would include e.g. Brighton and SF.
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Zegnat tantek captured our thoughts (discussed during last virtual HWC) on the /2017/Leaders page, it will be a session
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Zegnat gRegorLove, are you there for /Leaders ?
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gRegorLove Cool. Yep
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tantek I thought I proposed that "regularly reliable" (per time instance on a predictable frequency) locations were visible by default
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Zegnat Yes
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Zegnat I think you pointed that out in the conversation.
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tantek and that "regularly same venue" (90%+?) locations had the venue also visible by default, otherwise TBD with venue
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tantek though maybe if it's like >50% same venue, then: "TBD, likely at: (likely venue goes here)"
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Zegnat I like to go with TBA, as in: meeting will happen, location will be announced. Rather than TBD. But maybe that’s just nitpicking.
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Zegnat Merging UK and West EU into just EU was proposed as well, btw, tantek
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Zegnat Should be somewhere in the logs. sknebel brought it up.
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Zegnat I am trying to keep https://indieweb.org/events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club following what is being discussed. So if anyone has further ideas for cleaning it up and getting language quirks figured out, please do.
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gRegorLove Woo, London and Virtual made it in the newsletter
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sknebel great!
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Zegnat We did it ?
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gRegorLove Go team!
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Zegnat Interesting that London got duplicate data though. That might require a PR on the generator.
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sknebel oh, that's weird
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Zegnat That’s for someone else to fuss over. I am heading for bed ;) Thanks for all the help gRegorLove, sknebel!
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Zegnat Good night all
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Loqi sleep tight!
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sknebel good night Zegnat!
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sknebel ah, of course, the London duplicate is due to implicit name being "London, England" again
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Zegnat smacks implicit names around with a large salmon
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sknebel maybe set a dedicated name of TBA, so it shows as LONDON, England: TBA?
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sknebel nah, that's a bit confusing
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gRegorLove My fault. I should have just done <span class="p-location">London, England</span>
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tantek that's a good point, regular cities should have at least the city marked up as the location
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tantek what is leaders summit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "leaders summit" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel I thought the h-card would be best as well.
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tantek leaders summit is /2017/Leaders
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loqi.me created /leaders_summit (+25) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gRegorLove This is kind of an edge case; normally we have an address or at least venue name, so h-card is best generally
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sknebel not sure how to fix it in the newsletter code, since it can't tell if it is implicit or not, and comparing it is birttle as well
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tantek HWC & IWC co-leaders: we're 1 week out, and I see 6 people in person RSVP at https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#RSVP so that's what we're going to get breakfast / food for
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tantek er, / coffee
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gRegorLove No benwerd?
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loqi.me created /Simple_Location (+130) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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tantek he can only make it for the main IWS
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gregorlove.com edited /2017/Leaders (+13) "/* HWC Organizing */ interested" (view diff)
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tantek and I see tito claims there are 8 tix left. so I'm thinking food for 40 should cover ~42 since we typically get a few dropouts / noshows
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gregorlove.com edited /Simple_Location (+64) "link dfn, WordPress template" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress/Plugins (-44) "/* Other Indieweb Plugins */ wiki link Simple Location" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Simple_Location (+8) "wiki links" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net (+363) "features, ideas, feature requests?" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /non-interactive_IndieAuth (+1500) "/* proposal: simple flow */ findings from implementation" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (-57) "/* Working On */" (view diff)