#dev 2017-08-15

2017-08-15 UTC
rhiaro, myfreeweb, [cleverdevil], plindner, mindB, schmarty, zoglesby, eli_oat[m], TheGillies, AlanPearce[m] and tantek joined the channel
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tantek is going through websub.rocks
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tantek as a publisher
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tantek "Found the Hub!"
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tantek "Subscription Active!"
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tantek "Subscribed to http://tantek.com/"
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Loqi Tantek Çelik
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tantek "Waiting for notifications"
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tantek looks like I have to publish something to test the subscription / notifications
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tantek oh hey that worked
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tantek but now what
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tantek I don't understand what I'm supposed to do to "finish" the test - it got some notifications
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tantek but still says "Waiting for notifications" - for more notifications I guess?
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tantek presumably I don't have to do any more
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tantek I'm going to click Publisher to see what else to do
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tantek and that just asks me to Enter the URL again
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tantek https://websub.rocks/publisher
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tantek and we're back to Found the Hub, Subscription Active, Waiting for notifications
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tantek so I guess I'm done?
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aaronpk yep
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aaronpk it's more of just a tool
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aaronpk compared to webmention.rocks which builds the implementation report for you
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tantek so now I clone https://github.com/w3c/websub/blob/master/implementation-reports/PUBLISHER-TEMPLATE.md and submit?
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aaronpk yep
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tantek ok I'll do that at home
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[miklb] what is node
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Loqi Node.js is a platform for running javascript applications and runs on all modern operating systems https://indieweb.org/node
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[miklb] what is reacji
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Loqi reacji is an emoji reaction, the use of a single emoji character in response to a post, introduced as a feature by Slack[1] https://indieweb.org/reacji
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[miklb] so, a like :thumbsup: from FB is a like-of but any other reactions are just single emoji replies? Am I following that correctly?
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[tantek] Via Bridgy backfeed? Yes that sounds right.
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[tantek] Not sure who is displaying reacjis tho
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[miklb] yes, sorry I didn’t specify via bridgy
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[miklb] I’m aiming to add support in WordPress via a plugin.
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[miklb] I posted this in #wordpress but it’s probably general enough if anyone has thoughts: If I’m doing the reacji thing, and I filter all incoming replies for single emoji, I should just save it with commentmeta, with the short_name or the whole array?
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[tantek] Great question. Hence I was wondering who else is displaying reacjis and how
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[tantek] Figuring they have an answer for how to store them
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[miklb] the answer to my question I believe is the whole array as will need to be able to also query skin_tone. I hadn’t scrolled far enough down to see that is also included.
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aaronpk Emoji are weird and honestly I'd just store the raw bytes and hope that OSs can always continue to render them
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[miklb] I’m looking at how to group them
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aaronpk You want to consider skin tone variations as the same emoji?
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aaronpk You could find the skin tone and other variation bytes and remove those
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[miklb] so my thinking was if I store the short name and skin tone, I can create arrays of all the short name and then to do a facepile, then loop through each one and a loop through an array of the skin tones for that emoji.
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[miklb] I wasn’t planning to to consider them all the same.
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aaronpk Oh like sorting?
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[miklb] yes. for facepiles to go along with likes and reposts
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aaronpk hmm I think if you sort in byte order it'll work
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[miklb] I should probably read up on byte order it sounds like. I was just reading the examples in your emoji detection docs.
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Loqi +1
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[miklb] specifically, the array output when checking the is_single_emoji
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tantek aaronpk, it appears I'm sending a "hub.url" param in my websub POST notification instead of a "hub.topic" param
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tantek (inspecting my code). and websub.rocks didn't complain (either about presence of hub.url or absence of hub.topic)
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tantek seems to be ok per spec? that is, nothing against submitting hub.url, and nothing in the spec says how or why a publisher should set hub.topic
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tantek so I'm having trouble understanding how to answer the last question of the implementation report: "If your publisher uses an external hub, please describe how the publisher notifies the hub of new content:" - or rather, what's a good / the right answer? do I need to change my code to say hub.topic instead of hub.url?
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tantek other than that I have an implementation report ready to commit
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tantek for websub
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Zegnat sknebel your implementation for 7.2, at least for your page, seems correct? Why the doubt?
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vanderven.se martijn edited /authorship (+150) "/* Questions */ Sturdy-backbone supports authorship algorithm for h-event" (view diff)
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jeremycherfas Morning zegnat
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jeremycherfas Mind if I ask you a non IndieWeb question?
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Zegnat Not at all
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jeremycherfas Can you see any reason why the links on this page https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog do not seem to be operating correctly. I’ve checked the source, and they look to me to be correctly formed. But they just don’t work.
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cweiske which links?
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cweiske the links in the blog posts?
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cweiske the blog posts are overlaid by the following h1
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Zegnat cweiske beat me to it
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cweiske actually, the next list-item already covers the previous content
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jeremycherfas So it is the size of the H1 div, and it is on top of the posts, but transparent?
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cweiske because the list-blog-padding has a float:left
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Zegnat jeremycherfas: you can open the inspector in your browser, and use the element picker. When you then try to hover the links you will see it highlighting a different element, because that is on top
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jeremycherfas OK. Thanks a bunch. It was driving me crazy, but now it should be easy enough to fix.
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jeremycherfas Zegnat: I thought that was just me being inaccurate in where the mouse was !
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cweiske if you remove that float:left from list-blog-padding it works again
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cweiske there is also another problem on your site:
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cweiske blog:13 Mixed Content: The page at 'https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog' was loaded over HTTPS, but requested an insecure stylesheet 'http://yui.yahooapis.com/pure/0.6.0/pure-min.css'. This request has been blocked; the content must be served over HTTPS.
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Zegnat and cweiske’s fix works for me too, removing the float:left :)
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jeremycherfas Oh yes. I see that now. Guess I better fix that too.
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jeremycherfas Thanks, both. It is silly how the little things are so hard to see.
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Zegnat Also an experience thing, jeremycherfas. When I use the element picker and it is finicky I know there is a CSS problem, I know that because of experience. If not for experience I might also have thought it was me using it wrong or pointing my mouse wrong, and then spending hours looking the wrong way.
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sknebel Zegnat: due to the redirect on my homepage
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sknebel The algorithm used the URL that was fetched, not the URL the redirect ends up at
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Zegnat Aah. So the question becomes if the algo should match against resolved (after redirect) URL or the URL mentioned in the author property?
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jeremycherfas Fixed both those things, and while I was about it updated pure.css
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sknebel Zegnat: yes (or both or all steps inbetween or ...) - my site should work with 7.3 as well, that's why I was surprised it triggered 7.2 already
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sknebel I remember with some crawling project that also caused issues (is it an authorative h-card or not?). I probably should just not redirect that page (although ability to deal with redirects also might be useful for http->https
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Zegnat Not a bad idea to incorporate rules for redirects
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Zegnat I just haven’t seen it go wrong because of it yet
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jeremycherfas This is disappointing. A spammer has evaded my honeypot field, probably by being a human being. There must be another way to keep bad things at bay without inconveniencing genuine people.
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Zegnat Not if the spammers are human beings. Unless you filter on content with an actual spam filter
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jeremycherfas I accept the need to be active myself if there are human beings at work. Unfortunately, the Grav plugin has no moderation facilities. Except, probably, editing the datafile directly. Which is a pain.
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cweiske https://github.com/Perlkonig/grav-plugin-webmention#admin-page
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Loqi [Perlkonig] grav-plugin-webmention: Implements the Webmention protocol (with the Vouch extension) for the Grav CMS
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cweiske the command line interface also does not support deleting incoming webmentions
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cweiske maybe a feature request is appropriate
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jeremycherfas I gave up on that plugin in the end to use voxpelli’s heorku app, and there is no problem, so far, with webmentions. It is “ordinary” comments that are giving me a problem.
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cweiske ah
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cweiske ok
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jeremycherfas You have also reminded me that I need to think about a little script to allow people to submit the URL of a comment or reply on their own site.
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cweiske you actually don't need a script at all
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cweiske a simple POST <form> is enough
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cweiske if you prefill the target
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jeremycherfas I’ll come back to you when I get a little further … :)
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tantek good morning #indieweb-dev (evening to the UK / EU folks)
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tantek hey cweiske does your WebSub hub require hub.topic in the POST from a publisher, or does it accept / handle just hub.url?
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cweiske let me check
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cweiske it uses hub.url and falls back to hub.topic if hub.url is not there
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cweiske but hub.topic is not required
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cweiske https://git.cweiske.de/phubb.git/blob/HEAD:/www/hub-publish.php#l27
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tantek that sounds right. but something changed at some point PuSH -> WebSub because I cannot find "hub.url" in https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/
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Loqi [Julien Genestoux] WebSub
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tantek the WebSub spec only mentions hub.topic now, not hub.url. so I'm wondering if I have to switch to using hub.topic to be compliant / interop with future potential hub implementations
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aaronpk the websub/pubsubhubbub spec never specified the publisher->hub relationship https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/#publishing
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aaronpk so the closest thing to a spec for that was what google and superfeedr implemented
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loqi.me edited /uberspace (+157) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Google_Analytics (+514) "IP anonymization feature" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, as a publisher then I feel like I don't know what is the right thing to do
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tantek and it feels wrong to be using hub.url when its not even in the spec
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cweiske just say that as a publisher, you were doing it wrong before :)
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aaronpk i've wanted to publish an extension that specifies the publisher->hub relationship for public hubs
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tantek cweiske: I'm ok to accept that, I'd just like to be able to point to an answer in case someone else asks the same question in the future
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aaronpk the reason for not putting it in the core spec was that some hubs are built in to the publishing software and will never need that API
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tantek aaronpk: I'm ok with that too. I'm just worried that no mention of hub.url means using it is non-compliant, or rather, not something you can interoperably depend on
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aaronpk i wonder if it'd be possible to add it to the spec as an optional feature for public hubs
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aaronpk or rather, external hubs (public/private distinction is not important)
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tantek so I'm seriously considering switching to hub.topic in my implementation, but then that breaks our spec design intention of not asking implementations to change to conform to the spec
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tantek so I don't know what the right answer is
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cweiske but it's a living spec!!
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tantek cweiske: if only!
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cweiske it was never 1.0, only 0.3 and 0.4
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cweiske so breaking changes are ok
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aaronpk i always thought the hub.url parameter didn't make sense because that same value is called hub.topic in the spec
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tantek aaronpk: where was the hub.url param ever defined?
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tantek did I just get it from copy/pasta of some code example?
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aaronpk https://documentation.superfeedr.com/publishers.html#ping
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aaronpk and https://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/
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tantek both of those mention hub.url, but DO NOT mention hub.topic!
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tantek uh, that's the opposite of what the spec does
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tantek so now I'm *really* confused
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aaronpk no the spec doesn't say *anything* about how to publish
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tantek actually, it says https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/#conformance-classes
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tantek which is what I'm reading through now
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tantek "A conforming publisher MUST advertise topic and hub URLs for a given resource URL as described in Discovery."
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aaronpk right, nothing about pinging the hub
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tantek this sounds like a need for an explicit NOTE: saying Pub->Hub not defined, and or, for example, some hubs ask for "hub.url" as an informative example.
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snarfed so i'm currently writing a little proxy that injects a webmention endpoint into any web page, kind of like https://cors-anywhere.herokuapp.com/ etc
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snarfed (to be used in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-federated )
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Loqi [snarfed] bridgy-federated: A service that bridges IndieWeb and federated social networks: ActivityPub, OStatus, etc.
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snarfed just mentioning it in case anyone has any thoughts...
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aaronpk oh nice. when cloudflare announced their app store thingy i was thinking about doing that for cloudflare
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aaronpk so you'd check a box in the control panel to enable receiving webmentions
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[cleverdevil] That's a great idea.
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snarfed related: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/420
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Loqi [snarfed] #420 extend blog webmentions feature to all web sites
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sknebel I don't think you can do that with th ecloudflare thing
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sknebel limited to JS and CSS injection afair
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tantek aaronpk - filed: https://github.com/w3c/websub/issues/117
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Loqi [tantek] #117 informative NOTE pub->hub protocol unspecified, and examples
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aaronpk sknebel: i thought it let you add headers too
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aaronpk huh no, i don't see anything like that https://www.cloudflare.com/apps/developer/docs/getting-started
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tantek and with that I've submitted my publisher implementation report: https://github.com/w3c/websub/blob/master/implementation-reports/PUBLISHER-falcon.md
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+82) "update a few dates" (view diff)
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tantek heh, /Planning edits should be white-listed to #indieweb-meta
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cweiske.de edited /User:Commentpara.de_user_3.htm (+25) (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /commentpara.de (+55) (view diff)
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loqi.me created /awstats (+137) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /awstats (+128) (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /awstats (+46) (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /awstats (+65) (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /website-analytics (-53) "/* Log Analyzers */" (view diff)
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tantek awstats << analytics
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Loqi ok, I added "[[website-analytics]]" to the "See Also" section of /awstats
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loqi.me edited /awstats (+41) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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tantek oops
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tantek Loqi, "See also" vs. "See Also"
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tantek.com edited /awstats (+3) "cap See Also so Loqi can find it" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /awstats to /AWStats "canonical capitalization per site"
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www.aaron-gustafson.com edited /POSSE (-8) "Trying to fix" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /Template:aaron_gustafson to /Template:aarongustafson "use username/ircnick for templates - no spaces :)"
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emmahodge.org edited /User:Emmahodge.org (+99) (view diff)
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emmahodge.org edited /Planning (+1) "/* NYC */" (view diff)
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emmahodge.org edited /User:Emmahodge.org (-1) (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+202) "/* NYC */ update and add more dates" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (-5) "lowercase user template names, just emma :)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+23) "/* NYC */ end of Oct, second to end of Sept" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+85) "/* NYC */ Venue! we have a possibility" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /Planning (+238) "/* NYC */" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /Planning (+195) "/* NYC */ update my prefs" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Planning (+64) "/* NYC */" (view diff)
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tantek ^^^ merge conflict!
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martymcgui.re edited /Planning (+195) "/* NYC */ re-add my updates" (view diff)
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