#dev 2017-09-22

2017-09-22 UTC
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tantek.com edited /silo (+274) "Articles and Talks, move Maciej's talk here, and also add Browse Against the Machine" (view diff)
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tantek what is blogspot
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Loqi Blogspot was the original name given to the hosted version (silo) of the Blogger blogging tool https://indieweb.org/Blogspot
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tantek.com edited /Blogger (+1556) "criticism, blogs disappeared, notable example listed in The New Yorker and NYT" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Blogger (+74) "via" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk you might this analysis interesting regarding why a tweetstorm UI makes sense (beyond just an enhanced /article UI that lets you break it up into a tweetstorm) https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1907#issuecomment-331301413
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Loqi [tantek] I think yes (really need a "tweetstorm") and here's the two key reasons why: 1. **Lowest switching cost.** Tweetstormers would easily be able to switch to using the Known tweetstorm UI instead of their existing behavior on Twitter. Lowering that fri...
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tantek what is a tweetstorm
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Loqi tweetstorm is a series of tweets, each replying to the previous, often each numbered so the sequence is clear, as a method of expressing a longer series of related thoughts as a single thread on Twitter https://indieweb.org/tweetstorm
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tantek.com edited /tweetstorm (+393) "/* Brainstorming */ tweetstorm UI" (view diff)
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tantek capturd
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tantek !tell aaronpk re: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-09-21/1505974198344000 I think the challenges there are a particular case of how do you use micropub to post a collection and the items in the collection (with item specific attributes), and thus perhaps add a Brainstorming section to https://indieweb.org/collection and document it there?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [aaronpk] I want to document the problems with trying to translate instagram's multi photo+video posts into micropub somewhere
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tantek is still unwinding from aaronpk's chat from last night
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aaronpk From what I've seen about Instagram that kind of post is not a collection tho
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tantek what aspect makes you say that? pretty sure last time we chatted I was able to show how it IG multi-media posts are collections
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tantek wow I forgot I had a tab open on this - barnabywalters's webmention.io to HTML service, e.g. most recent webmentions I get on my homepage (via Twitter backfeed from Bridgy) https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/webmention-io-comments/?url=http://tantek.com/
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Loqi [Tayuchhang Lama] Thanks for all my friends and relatives. I am a live for our Friendship and relatiinship. @came back to normal ward @t CSSH Siliguri. https://waterpigs.co.uk/img/icons/mention-icon.svg
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+403) "/* Display Received Webmentions */ ways to view webmentions received" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: the notes on the Instagram page have been updated since it first launched and it appears that the posts are discrete units now rather than each image having its own commetsn for example
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tantek sure, a collection is still a post / discrete unit itself that can have its own comments
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aaronpk But the photos and videos in an Instagram post can't have their own comments
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tantek it's not a matter of what they can't have, it's a matter of what they can have
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tantek and they can have separate person-tags
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tantek and I'm willing to be that that "can't have their own comments" is just a "there's no UI for them to have their comments". you can't actually determine that their data structure disallows comments
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tantek on the contrary, the existence of per-photo person-tags shows that there *do* exist per-photo properties in the data structure
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aaronpk this is getting very abstract
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aaronpk i need a wiki page to write the actual problem down
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aaronpk heh instagram isn't even mentioned on the /collection page
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aaronpk i'm just going to make a new page for now, we can merge it with something else later
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tantek aaronpk - it's not abstract. you're reasoning by negative, trying to deduce something from the absence of a feature - and that's bad reasoning
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aaronpk no, i'm trying to point out a limitation of the ability of microformats to represent something
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tantek hence why I pointed out reasoning by positive, reasoning by the existence of things we do know about
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aaronpk based on the way we know people interact with instagram posts right now
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aaronpk not based on what they might theoretically be behind the scenes
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tantek not theory. if you treat it as a collection post it just works
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aaronpk except there is no permalink for the individual photos of an instagram multiphoto so it doesn't quite map to a collection
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tantek it's not a limit of "microformats" it's the boundary where you need to use multiple microformats
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Ruxton pops in
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Ruxton isn't it just a gallery? :)
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tantek "just" :)
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tantek but yes, a gallery is a collection
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aaronpk what is a gallery?
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Loqi A gallery is a deliberately curated set of photos, that may itself be a post, or an archive view, or potentially dynamically created via tags https://indieweb.org/gallery
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aaronpk is a gallery limited to photos?
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aaronpk i think "gallery" is even less defined right now :)
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tantek certainly by that definition it is less defined than collection :)
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aaronparecki.com created /multi-photo_vs_collection (+8396) "initial example of multi-photo vs collections" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /multi-photo_vs_collection (+2820) "add examples of the problems of combining photos and videos" (view diff)
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aaronpk okay done
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aaronpk two main issues, documented here finally https://indieweb.org/multi-photo_vs_collection#Issues
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aaronpk now i have a URL i can link to in my podcast
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schmarty So curious about this podcast!!
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aaronpk it's live!
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aaronpk https://percolator.today
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aaronpk no energy to record+publish one today tho, but i'll hopefully post one tomorrow
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aaronpk (I am explicitly not promising to post daily)
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schmarty Oho! Curiosity satisfied.
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schmarty Really interested in microcasts as a phenomenon.
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aaronpk i actually really prefer short (<30 minute) podcasts in general
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aaronpk it's easier to commit to 20 minutes than 2 hours
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aaronpk also actual radio has been doing essentially microcasts long before podcasts so it's kind of interesting to see it starting to turn back into that
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tantek there are 2 hour podcasts?!?
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schmarty Agreed! I kind of max out on podcasts at one hour, even for those I really want to 100%.
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schmarty aaronpk: I can find a new audio clip to cover the "IndieNews" segment of TWITIW if you want exclusivity. :)
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tantek aaronpk, it's pretty clear that you can only do a literal "multiphoto" in a single h-entry. not a multi-mixed-media, nor multi-tagged-photos.
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tantek just multiphotos. nothing more
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tantek beyond that, you have to use an h-entry for each
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aaronpk i don't think that's "clear" other than the fact that microformats can't mix photos and videos
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schmarty I should probably reduce the number of audio styles in the TWITIW podcast, reuse clips, etc
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tantek sorry, "clear" is not the right word. you're correct.
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tantek conclusive is more accurate.
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aaronpk i could be convinced of that
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aaronpk it's probably also worth noting that micro.blog launched multi-photo support before it even supports any videos
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tantek yes that's another good datapoint
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tantek like Twitter
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schmarty aaronpk: also curious what you use to make your percolator posts. I am looking forward to making some improvements to screech and am looking for feedback from users :)
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk i have a very... unconventional .. workflow
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sknebel aaronpk: tiny design feedback: the play button on the post should also work as a pause button and not restart the audio when pressed
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aaronpk yep it should
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Ruxton Got a photo in OWG that wont send, also description is different in photo list to actual photo on insta
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tantek what is a microcast
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "microcast" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek aaronpk: I see "Aaron Parecki Aaron Parecki is " in the footer of percolator
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tantek (first is linked)
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aaronpk oops
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aaronpk Ruxton: send me a link? I'm gonna take a look at some OYG stuff tomorrow hopefully
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Ruxton aaronpk: this is the insta link https://www.instagram.com/p/BZUsFuFhPLP/
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Loqi [Greg Tangey] Happy #3 to BLK Espresso https://scontent-dft4-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/21827540_492543024442734_4154813266066931712_n.jpg
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tantek these microcasts kind of feel like IG stories
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Ruxton IG stories are time-bombed (they disappear after X)
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tantek hence I related the "feel", not the actual design/limitations etc
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Ruxton nods
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Ruxton only feels that way because they're both short form content, the outcomes of both are very different imo
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tantek aaronpk: the IG multi-media post / OYG thing is perhaps an example of the challenge of building and running a PESOS service
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aaronpk Maybe, tho I think it's the same problem if I wanted to publish a mix of photos and videos and also build a reader that supports that
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tantek you have to keep updating it whenever the silo adds features because there is an implication that the service will pass along whatever is on to the receiver
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tantek no the new content vs reader problem is very different
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tantek because we can design fallbacks so that existing readers still work / behave reasonably
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[kevinmarks] Instagram posts didn't have permalinks at all for a while.
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[kevinmarks] Interesting honesty on tradeoffs here https://twitter.com/dan_abramov/status/909180238856323072
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@dan_abramov @housecor It is JavaScript-centric. If you don’t want to learn JavaScript, it is harder to work with than template-centric libraries. (twitter.com/_/status/909180238856323072)
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jonnybarnes if I want to let people register accounts/log in to a site using indieauth, I `buildAuthorizationURL()` and redirect them to it
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jonnybarnes the response will be an array containing me, code, and state keys
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jonnybarnes if I’m not then issuing an access token do I need to `verifyIndieAuthCode`
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jonnybarnes obviously I should check the state before creating a use account with the me value
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jonnybarnes *user
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aaronpk You'll need a way for the app to verify the auth code
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aaronpk The flow is outlined here https://indieweb.org/indieauth-for-login
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jonnybarnes ahhh
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jonnybarnes so I still need to step 6 on that page
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Zegnat Yes, step 6 makes sure that you aren’t getting some random GET request that looks valid, by validating with the original endpoint again
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tantek [barryf]: totally worth trying to get microformats into Jekyll by default
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tantek.com edited /Jekyll (+49) "IndieWeb Support stub section" (view diff)
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tantek [barryf]: can you add description / links of your Minima pull request here? https://indieweb.org/Jekyll#IndieWeb_Support
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[barryf] Definitely. The templates already have schema.org (I think).
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[barryf] Will do.
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tantek great!
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tantek what is React
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Loqi React (also called ReactJS) is an open source web framework created by Facebook that can be responsibly used (simultaneous client and server support) yet often abused for js;dr pages and sites https://indieweb.org/React
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tantek React << 2017-09-16 @housecor: [https://twitter.com/housecor/status/909143662629703682 list of reasons *not* to use React] tweet summary and thread
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@housecor To convey the big picture, I'm compiling a list of reasons *not* to use React for my new course. Other downsides/concerns I'm overlooking? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ3sypkUEAA9Ghy.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/909143662629703682)
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loqi.me edited /React (+141) "tantek added "2017-09-16 @housecor: [https://twitter.com/housecor/status/909143662629703682 list of reasons *not* to use React] tweet summary and thread" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-09-16 @housecor: [https://twitter.com/housecor/status/909143662629703682 list of reasons *not* to use React] tweet summary and thread" to the "See Also" section of /React
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barryfrost.com edited /Jekyll (+301) "/* IndieWeb Support */ Description of pull request to add Microformats to default Jekyll theme" (view diff)
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tantek [barryf]: looking at the diffs - I've never seen "hidden" used on an <a href> before - is that valid and customary practice somewhere?
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tantek also the rel="me" links could be additional class="u-url" as well
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tantek and consider moving it higher up in the markup, perhaps right after the h-* that it applies to, just to make it more obvious which object the <a class="u-url" hidden ... > applies to
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tantek I was going to comment that on the commit but figured I'd just discuss it here :)
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[barryf] I was trying to ensure the <a> didn't break anyone's layout, just in case someone's stylesheet specifies it.
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tantek you can use <data> for that
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tantek if you really want something non-visible / non-interactive
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aaronpk IIRC parsers don't resolve relative URLs unless it's in an <a> tag?
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tantek no that is not true
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tantek part of u- parsing is resolving relative URLs
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aaronpk oh does u- work with <data>?
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tantek double checks the spec
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tantek in general you can put any property on any element
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tantek which allows you to use the most appropriate element for the page and context
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aaronpk looks like at least the PHP parser handles a data element with u-
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20170922162702859
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tantek ah nope - relative URL resolution is only handled for URL attributes in the language
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_a_u-_property
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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tantek " else if data.u-x[value] or input.u-x[value], then return the value attribute "
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tantek [barryf] if you switch to the data element, you have to output the full absolute URL in the value="" attribute
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aaronpk so then the PHP parser is incorrectly doing the relative URL resolution? heh
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[barryf] So I'm probably best to leave as <a>? Is the hidden attribute redundant would you say?
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tantek but that's better than an empty / hidden <a href>
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aaronpk sometimes the site doesn't know the full URL so that's not always possible
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tantek no because other tools (screen readers) try to show the user / nav among all the <a href>s
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[barryf] Yes, the convention in the theme is to use relative URLs.
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tantek aaronpk: oh that's interesting (re: PHP parser doing the relative URL resolution on <data value>)
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aaronpk tantek: oh i'm wrong, i just crafted an example that happened to work
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tantek aaronpk I'm not seeing the relative URL handling
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20170922163001338
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aaronpk and then interpreted the result wrong ?
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tantek from the example above
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tantek well that begs the question then since you thought that
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tantek should it?
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aaronpk if you don't want people to use hidden <a> tags then yes
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tantek rather, should all u-url parsing do relative URL resolution? regardless of element or attribute it gets its value from?
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aaronpk yeah I think the u- prefix should be the indication that the value is a URL and should be resolved
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tantek that's a pretty big change but it shouldn't break any existing working content, because such relative URLs outside of URL attributes don't work today anywa
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tantek the argument for that is that dt-* parsing is also special in that regard
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tantek great - can you open an issue per http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#change_control on suggesting that general change to http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_a_u-_property and I'll add spec text changes?
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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tantek and then we can get input from parser devs etc.
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aaronpk k
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aaronpk oh look Zegnat beat me to it https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/10
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Loqi [Zegnat] #10 When should u- values be normalised to absolute URLs?
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tantek definitely mention the use-case of wanting to use <data> for a relative URL instead of a hidden <a href> which is undesirable for all the usual semantics / screen reader etc. reasons
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tantek heh with <data> even
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tantek I think that parsing design is an example of me being conservative (only doing relative resolution on attributes with URL semantics)
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[barryf] Thanks for the corrections, tantek. I've updated the PR. Interesting can of worms opened up about <data>!
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tantek commented on #10
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tantek reloading
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aaronpk pretty sure i have some hidden <a> tags i've done this with on my site as well
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tantek well then now that barryf's pull request is depending on that data u-url relative URL resolution, we ought to get at least one parser implementation to implement it
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tantek so that we can move forward on the issue
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tantek [barryf]: commented with at least my outside review on your pull request, hopefully that helps
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[barryf] Thanks tantek. Let's see what the maintainers think.
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snarfed ooh mf2 parsing development work reminds me to file an mf2 issue for https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/592#issuecomment-331210211
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Loqi [jonnybarnes] In the spirit of keeping things simple I’d have bridgy HEAD request the image linked to in `src`, if that can be POSSE’d then just abuse that. Even if a “better” valid image exists, in the `srcset`. Then maybe we could reuse the code and d...
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snarfed oops, i meant https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/592#issuecomment-331220324
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Loqi [snarfed] sure! HEADing to check for size is easy. not all servers support it, sadly, but that's a separate question. the main question here still seems whether and how to get the `srcset`'s image URLs into the parsed mf2 that bridgy and granary use interna...
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aaronpk hm i might know enough to do the PHP parser change
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snarfed aha already filed, https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/7
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Loqi [tantek] #7 Should u-* parsing special case img srcset?
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tantek snarfed - real world examples of pages with srcset that would benefit from having them parsed into u-* values would be welcome!
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tantek linking to the bridgy issue comment would be a big help too!
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tantek hmm maybe if I make it to IWC Berlin we can do a mf2 dev session on Saturday and try to resolve some of these issues
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aaronpk Ah remembered the other issue with IG multi photos now
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snarfed hey jonnybarnes do you have a post with srcset we could use as an example? ^
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aaronpk we're using the "photo" property as the poster image of a video if the h-entry has a video
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aaronpk that might not be a good idea after all
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tantek we should stop calling them "IG multi photos" because I think that's unintentionally misleading
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tantek because they're not just photos
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tantek as you've pointed out
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tantek and nobody does separate / simple "multivideo" posts
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snarfed also lightly plugs https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/2 as an mf2 dev session candidate
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Loqi [aaronpk] #2 image alt text is lost during parsing
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tantek so we don't need to worry about that use-case since that's theoretical
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tantek aaronpk the u-photo as the poster of a u-video only works for a single video in a post
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aaronpk don't need to worry about what use case?
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aaronpk instagram supports multiple videos in the post as well
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tantek simple "multi video"
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tantek right, IG's multiposts are not "simple"
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tantek and no one else even tries
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aaronpk is a little terrified of building a reader with all these obscure semantics
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tantek it's not obscure
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tantek we already handle nested objects
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aaronpk "if there is a video property and photo property and they each have only one value, then display as a video using the photo as the poster image"
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tantek every post has a notion of h-entry with embedded h-card for the author
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tantek so that should be no surprise
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tantek aaronpk - it's worth it to keep the simple cases simple for publishers
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tantek since there are millions more of those than there are readers
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aaronpk what should a reader do if it encounters an h-entry with two photo and two video values?
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tantek and yes, building readers is hard, that's no surprise, and there are many other more important challenging problems for a reader far beyond any kind of parsing minutiae
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aaronpk (and all values are URLs)
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tantek this is why I've put time into defining steps in Post Type Discovery
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tantek and also why we focus on real world cases instead of everything theoretically possible
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aaronpk my point is it's not theoretical when building a reader because you have to make some decision about what to do, even if what to do is treat it as an error case
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tantek yes and such decisions should always be done by 1) what is out there today, 2) what is easiest to defensively code simply with less code
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tantek it's classic laziness is a virtue
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tantek step 1) should obviously be done per spec, in this case, per Post Type Discovery
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tantek if there's stuff missing from PTD on how to handle existing real world case, definitely file an issue for those with links to those real world cases
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aaronpk well my immediate need is deciding how to translate all combinations of instagram multiposts into micropub
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aaronpk single photo, single video, two photos, two videos, mix of photos and videos
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tantek single photo -> /photo, single video -> /video, 2+ of anything in IG are all /collection posts
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aaronpk that sets a pretty high bar for accepting micropub requests for those
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tantek that's the reality of the richness of what IG allows posting. they've raised the bar higher for the richness of their posts
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[cleverdevil] Okay, I'm exploring doing a sponsored open source plugin for Discourse to support Webmention (and potentially a few other things). My goal is to get DreamHost to pay to have it implemented. Are there any Ruby developers in the IndieWeb group that may be interested in working on such a project?
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[cleverdevil] I'd like to scope it out and get a little budget to see if I can get approval for such a project ?
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tantek perhaps start with who has written the Ruby libraries for webmention handling?
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tantek they might be interested or know someone who is?
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tantek though it may be more important to have experience writing webmention handling than Ruby experience per se
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[cleverdevil] Looks like its aaronpk and barryf
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tantek I for one would trust someone with multilingual programming experience that has webmention receiving implementing experience to be able to pick up the "rubyisms" fairly quickly
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snarfed [cleverdevil]: just fyi ScalaWilliam has also experimented with bounties here, e.g. http://work.scalawilliam.com/
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[kevinmarks] (the neat thing about the list of don't use react I linked to was that it was by the react author)
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tantek "the" ?
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tantek (author)
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[cleverdevil] Agreed tantek
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[cleverdevil] Thanks, snarfed
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[kevinmarks] Lead of redux and big react author https://github.com/gaearon
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jonnybarnes snarfed: I will do next week, my current flow is if a small image is uploaded, just leave it as a single image
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jonnybarnes but I’ve got some big photos I want to upload soon
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snarfed jonnybarnes: thx!
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snarfed petermolnar may also have an existing srcset
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aaronpk i'm designing the settings screen for OwnYourGram and it's getting kind of overwhelming
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aaronpk also starting to think it might be useful to have a way for micropub clients and servers to know about what features are supported automatically
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tantek that sounds like ... conneg
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aaronpk more like capability negotiation, not content negotiation
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tantek better to try to see if you can design the interactions with fallbacks so that things "just work" with existing implementations, and if there's richer content, the implementations can upgrade and get it as they see fit
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tantek such "negotiation" protocols typically add a lot more complexity to all sides, fragility, bugs, etc.
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aaronpk well i'm essentially making manual switches so people can choose what kind of requests to receive
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tantek conneg waas supposed to be simpler than arbitrary capability negotiation, and it's still kind of a joke on the web because nearly no one supports it or handles it well outside of obscure formats
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aaronpk this is from ownyourswarm: https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-09-22-10-47-56-hCS1v3TE0i.jpg
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aaronpk I wrapped up a few different capabilities into each option
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tantek consider fallbacks like what Bridgy does sometimes, which is just to take "the first things" and pass it on (publish it, backfeed it etc.)
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aaronpk same with ownyourgram https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-09-22-10-48-39-W47NMbK2o2.jpg
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aaronpk "the first things"?
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tantek yeah the JSON vs Simple option makes sense
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tantek aaronpk if I Bridgy Publish a multiphoto of say 8 photos, it only sends the first four to Twitter, and the first one to Flickr, and the first one to FB
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aaronpk ah but that works because bridgy knows the limitations of the thing it's sending to
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tantek other direction (POSSE vs PESOS), but similar reasoning applies to OYG
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aaronpk in OYG's case, it doesn't know what limits the server has
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tantek default to single item, let people opt into collections
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tantek also those are great setting screenshots
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tantek really should add to their pages
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tantek what is OYS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "OYS" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is OYG
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "OYG" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk feel free to upload those to the wiki
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tantek what is ownyourswarm
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Loqi OwnYourSwarm is a service which sends your Swarm checkins to your own website via Micropub https://indieweb.org/OwnYourSwarm
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tantek OYS is /OwnYourSwarm
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loqi.me created /OYS (+25) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is ownyourgram
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Loqi OwnYourGram.com is a service which streams your Instagram photos to your own site in real-time https://indieweb.org/OwnYourGram
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tantek OYG is /OwnYourGram
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /OYG (+24) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek let's see if this works
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tantek OYS << https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-09-22-10-47-56-hCS1v3TE0i.jpg
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Loqi ok, I added "https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-09-22-10-47-56-hCS1v3TE0i.jpg" to the "See Also" section of /OwnYourSwarm
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loqi.me edited /OwnYourSwarm (+75) "tantek added "https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-09-22-10-47-56-hCS1v3TE0i.jpg" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek OYG << https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-09-22-10-48-39-W47NMbK2o2.jpg
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loqi.me edited /OwnYourGram (+75) "tantek added "https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-09-22-10-48-39-W47NMbK2o2.jpg" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-09-22-10-48-39-W47NMbK2o2.jpg" to the "See Also" section of /OwnYourGram
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aaronpk oh gosh
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aaronpk so i'm going to have an intermediate step between single photos and full collections, which is multi-photo
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tantek no, I think that's not worth it for OYG
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aaronpk i think it is worth it because:
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tantek too fragile
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tantek because as soon as people start adding per photo tags or add *one* video in the mix it will oddly fail
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aaronpk my site supports multi-photos via micropub, but not collections via micropub. and micro.blog supports multi-photos via micropub as well, and has no concept of collections
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aaronpk micro.blog also doesn't support person-tagging *at all* so that information is already lost anyway
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tantek dang those are good real world use-cases!
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tantek your evidence is compelling aaronpk
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tantek be sure to define the multiphoto limitiations. person-tags dropped. videos dropped.
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aaronpk looks like the wordpress micropub plugin also supports multi-photo
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tantek what is a multiphoto
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Loqi A multi-photo is like a photo post, except just with multiple adjacent photos, either in a series, or tiled / arranged in some layout https://indieweb.org/multiphoto
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tantek.com edited /multi-photo (+97) "not a multi-photo post: with videos, per photo person-tags" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /multi-photo (+372) "/* collection */ person-tags, videos" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k_naming_convention (+4) "percolator is a podcast now" (view diff)
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tantek what is the wordpress micropub plugin
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wordpress micropub plugin" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek.com edited /multi-photo (+307) "Supporting Services Projects stub per aaronpk in IRC" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk taking your word for it: https://indieweb.org/multi-photo#Supporting_Services_Projects
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tantek feel free to expand with more specific links / details
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tantek and can you add your wiki page from yesterday to the /multi-photo see also at least
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aaronpk oh yeah
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aaronpk multi-photo << /multi-photo_vs_collection
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loqi.me edited /multi-photo (+29) "aaronpk added "/multi-photo_vs_collection" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "/multi-photo_vs_collection" to the "See Also" section of /multi-photo
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aaronpk oops
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aaronparecki.com edited /multi-photo_vs_collection (+52) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek why oops? looked like it worked
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aaronpk i fixed it :)
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gRegorLove wordpress micropub plugin is /Micropub_for_WordPress
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk now creating sample instagram posts for all combinations
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tantek oh boy
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tantek please tell me you have a test account for that
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aaronpk naturally
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aaronpk pk_spam
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tantek here I thought it was @spampk
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aaronpk that's my twitter one
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tantek.com moved /wordpress_micropub_plugin to /WordPress_Micropub_Plugin "capitalization"
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gRegorLove That's a double redirect now ^
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aaronpk can you not tag people in instagram videos?
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tantek no it's not
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aaronpk https://help.instagram.com/375691319209377
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tantek or rather the thing I had already linked to from /multi-photo is not a double-redirect
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aaronparecki.com edited /multi-photo_vs_collection (+74) "videos can't be tagged" (view diff)
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gRegorLove https://indieweb.org/wordpress_micropub_plugin
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tantek right, didn't need that one since it was only mentioned in a question in chat
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tantek or rather, always better to answer the " is " question with the proper capitalization since Loqi search will find it regardless of how you ask the next time, but links on the wiki require the proper capitalization
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gRegorLove Oops, I was mistaken. I thought Loqi search and wiki search weren't case sensitive, though.
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gRegorLove when is iwc nyc?
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Loqi IndieWebCamp NYC 2017 is on 2017-09-30 at Dalberg Global Development Advisors NYC https://indieweb.org/IWC_NYC
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tantek kind of annoying that IG doesn't let you add person-tags in video posts because they do allow you to tag people in videos in stories :/
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tantek Loqi search works either way yes
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aaronpk oh right, XRay doesn't support instagram multi-photos yet either
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+645) "/* Features */ collections, limitations, note stories support various tags/labels/stickers and pinning them to moving things" (view diff)
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[barryf] cleverdevil: I've no Discourse experience but would be happy to help out, maybe in a supporting role.
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[cleverdevil] Cool, thanks barryf.
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aaronpk :sigh: rabbitholes
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aaronpk going to update XRay for multi-post support in instagram first, then do this https://github.com/aaronpk/OwnYourGram/issues/39
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Loqi [aaronpk] #39 Replace Instagram parsing with XRay library
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aaronpk time to dig into the instagram graphql api
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aaronpk the API has an empty list of person tags for videos, so i woudln't be surprised if we see that in the future
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snarfed aaronpk: i thought it was biz dev only?
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aaronpk "api"
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aaronpk (their graphql JSON embedded in the HTML)
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snarfed ahhhh
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snarfed here's my multi-photo code for it: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/granary/instagram.py#L878
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aaronpk what did you decide to do if one of those is a video?
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tantek.com edited /messaging (+0) "move brainstorming and such below actual technologies" (view diff)
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aaronpk whee xray supports instagram multiposts now
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tantek whoa that was fast
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aaronpk with tests of course
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@cleverdevil @keithjgrant.com @connect_js You deserve a webmention! (twitter.com/_/status/911314184952012800)
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snarfed aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 74 karma in this channel (1430 overall)
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snarfed aaronpk: i detect videos via `is_video`: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/granary/instagram.py#L864
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snarfed do you mean, how do i render them as mf2/html?
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aaronpk no i mean if one of the items in the multi-post is a video what do you do?
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snarfed i...include it with the rest as an attachment of type video in the resulting AS1? that's all this code does
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snarfed do you mean in bridgy? or...? sorry i'm not following
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aaronpk i guess it depends on the output format
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snarfed yup
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aaronpk looks like only the first photo is used for the json-mf2 version https://granary-demo.appspot.com/instagram/pk_spam/@self/@app/BZWmpecjBwN?format=json-mf2
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aaronpk and looks like no video support in jsonfeed at all https://granary-demo.appspot.com/instagram/pk_spam/@self/@app/BZWmpecjBwN?format=jsonfeed
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aaronpk https://granary-demo.appspot.com/instagram/pk_spam/@self/@app/BZWl8J6DCbc?format=jsonfeed just shows up as a photo
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snarfed yeah both very possible
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next hwc" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+43) (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-7) "just Istanbul, templates don't work in the sidebar for some reason" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+3) "try identing" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /multi-photo_vs_collection (+165) "dfn" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+9) "nope. go back to   for indents. mediawiki is weird in places" (view diff)
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gRegorLove what is multi-photo vs collection
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Loqi multi-photo vs collection refers to multi-photo vs collection posts and the challenges of combining photos and videos in a post https://indieweb.org/multi-photo_vs_collection
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gRegorLove what is next-iwc?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/next-iwc
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gRegorLove when is next-iwc?
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Loqi IndieWebCamp NYC 2017 is on 2017-09-30 at Dalberg Global Development Advisors NYC https://indieweb.org/next-iwc
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renem.net edited /Hugo (+155) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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renem.net edited /User:Renem.net (+33) (view diff)
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renem.net edited /Hugo (+4) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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[miklb] before I fire up IRC does anyone know if CircleCI has a channel? ping bear
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bear not on irc
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bear but you can consider me the channel
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[miklb] bear++
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Loqi bear has 20 karma in this channel (194 overall)
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[miklb] I’ve turned myself inside out with ssh keys and can’t figure out how to ssh into my vps for deploy
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bear all of our non-paid support happens via discuss.circleci.com (discourse forums)
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[miklb] I did see the forum in my searches
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bear do you want to go to indiechat with this or is this a dev related issue?
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[miklb] it isn’t IndieWeb specific, so #chat might be better
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[miklb] just general ssh & ci
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bear k
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bear hmm, I don't see you in #indiechat - I wonder if it's a slack thing
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bear (i'm using IRC)
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[miklb] I’ll switch
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bear I don't even know if I am in the slack for indieweb
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aaronpk bear: it's #indieweb-chat that's bridged
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bear oh!
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bear thanks
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KartikPrabhu what is CircleCI?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/CircleCI
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bear soon we will be beta testing doing non xcode builds on OS X
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bear so if you have react or other builds that need access to OS X libs - you will be able to specify them
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tantek.com edited /on_this_day (+561) "subhead Timehomp, Commons Examples / Wikipedia, update dfn to include indieweb and commons" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /site-homepage (+265) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /site-homepage (+34) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /site-homepage (+82) "tantek added "https://github.com/indieweb/wiki/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Ahomepage" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /homepage (+78) "disambig site homepage" (view diff)
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tantek adds more precision to the multi-photo page vs collections page which he thought he already added elsewhere
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tantek whoa when did non-square IG multiposts happen? why have I never seen one?!?
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tantek goodness I need to try that
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aaronpk I think I added a citation for that
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tantek yes, reading, relinking
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tantek.com edited /multi-photo_vs_collection (+202) "link text in dfn, silo examples, note limitations in silos" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk heads-up because it seems maybe you noted off the top of your head: swarm checkins limited to 7 photos, IG multiposts limited to 10 items
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aaronpk orly
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tantek finds these kinds of limits >:D
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aaronpk i couldn't find any info about that and hadn't hit that limit myself
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tantek uh, ahem: https://indieweb.org/multi-photo#Silo_Examples
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tantek always good to run around inside the gardens and find their walls
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tantek goes to contribute to the microformats discussion about multiphoto vs collection now