#dev 2017-10-06

2017-10-06 UTC
KartikPrabhu, eli_oat, davidmead, Kaja, renem, leg, skippy, voxpelli, raucao_, jonnybarnes, dansup, gRegorLove, [miklb], BBNZ, bear, jeremycherfas, [pfefferle], j12t, deathrow1 and cweiske joined the channel
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cweiske .
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[keithjgrant] Loqi, any messages?
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cweiske [keithjgrant], "npm install" downloaded 691mib of dependencies for omnibear..
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cweiske is there a reason you use babel?
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2017-10-04-hwxpdx.jpg]]"" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com deleted /File:2017-10-04-hwxpdx.jpg "Deleted old revision 20171006142446!2017-10-04-hwxpdx.jpg"
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eddiehinkle.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-frederick-10-4-2017.jpeg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:hwc-frederick-10-4-2017.jpeg"
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jonnybarnes !tell snarfed I finally deployed my img srcset code and uploaded a large image: https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/GE
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Jonny Barnes] Out with the old, in with the new. Loved my @monzo card these last few weeks. https://jbuk-media.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/media/e8a140ef-11e6-4e50-ba26-7a12731d1f71.jpeg
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www.svenknebel.de edited /next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
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@nhoizey I use @AaronGustafson’s Webmention plugin for @jekyllrb. He uses my @cloudinary plugin. We finally met at @ParisWeb! #happy (twitter.com/_/status/916352420535570433)
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tantek wow
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loqi.me edited /Twitter (+90) "tantek added "[http://twitter.pbworks.com/ Original Twitter Fan Wiki] - lots of early Twitter history" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[keithjgrant] cweiske I think I used Babel for some async/await... That may have gotten moved out into the micropub-helper lib, though. I should do an audit to see if I can cut that now
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page (-498) "/* IndieWebCamp */ remove past from upcoming" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page () "(-731) /* Homebrew Website Club */ update with next dates" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-38) "next HWC date and IWC BERlin" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /next-iwc (+3) "Berlin!" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page (+56) "/* Upcoming Homebrew Website Club meetups */ add SF manually (didn't have p-location, thus not captured by script)" (view diff)
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tantek hmm - I need to drop SF from 2017-10-18 - neither I nor benwerd will be around
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page (-56) "Undo revision 41106 by [[Special:Contributions/Www.svenknebel.de|Www.svenknebel.de]] ([[User talk:Www.svenknebel.de|talk]]) - no SF that date" (view diff)
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@nhoizey @piouPiouM @edasfr https://indieweb.org/indieauth-fr (twitter.com/_/status/916378894021939200)
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schmarty warning, plumbing discussion incoming.
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Zegnat ’s ears prick up
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schmarty recently aaronpk brought up the issue of determining whether a post with a mix of video/photo urls is a "multiphoto" post, a video with a poster image, ...
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schmarty i am probably thinking of this the wrong way, but i was looking at the micropub spec regarding adding alt text to a photo (https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#uploading-a-photo-with-alt-text) and the proposal for parsing a u-photo with alt attribute (https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/2#issuecomment-236712535)
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schmarty and was wondering about representing other metadata in a similar way.
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schmarty e.g. { "properties": { "video": [ { "value": "http://...", "poster": "http:..." } ] } }
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schmarty mega-plumbing-alert - i am thinking about this more in terms of how to encode this info when creating or editing a post with micropub and less in terms of how to markup and consume this info once it's in a post.
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sknebel schmarty: I think that makes a lot of sense
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Zegnat Yes, the way micropub makes use of microformats in interesting in that you might specifically want this extra information encoded in there
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schmarty sknebel, zegnat: thanks! next up i need to think about how far to go with it. for example, poster makes sense for a video, but a video could also have multiple caption/subtitle tracks associated, each with their own info (url, language, name).
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schmarty i am also tempted to go this path to store info about the file itself. e.g. audio file size in bytes, duration, ID3 info, ...
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Zegnat You’d almost consider an h-video at that point, as it becomes a collection of video sources, text sources, audio sources. But it is hard to hit the right spot between granularity and actual useful data.
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sknebel yeah
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Zegnat E.g. you could put a duration on the video … but you could also put duration on every single video/audio track within a video element.
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Zegnat I’d try not to over-engineer that unless you think you have an actual usecase, schmarty
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schmarty Zegnat: haha, good point! some video files pack lots of metadata inside.
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schmarty i am thinking about this for /Screech. it currently supports uploading a single audio file and will extract file size, duration, and ID3 data which are sent as custom properties.
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Loqi awesome
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schmarty i want to add micropub media endpoint support, which would put it very close to supporting multiple media files per post. at that point, the custom attributes on the post make less sense.
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Zegnat It might make sense to send it along. Though if I am implementing a micropub endpoint for audio files I wouldn’t *trust* the size and duration from the client. So I would still check them myself if I needed that data.
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schmarty Zegnat: for metadata, i think it makes sense to move the processing to the server.
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sknebel yeah, that's an interesting question where to put that work
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sknebel if one treats a micropub client as trusted (and generally that's the case I think), doing stuff like that in the client also has benefits. e.g. the server doesn't need complex code to parse audio/video files for their metadata
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schmarty sknebel: that was my thinking when i built it into screech. i knew the browser would have access to the file and i trust my micropub client to send accurate information to the server, so the micropub server can simple store it.
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Zegnat It is the case if you yourself have written both the client and the endpoint. But for an open ecosystem? Or say an endpoint you wrote for WordPress blogs? I wouldn’t want to trust the incoming request too much.
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sknebel I might trust it more than the ability of my users to get media parsing dependencies installed and *patched* on their hosts
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Zegnat We aren’t really there yet, with current implementations, anyway. But if you are thinking about documenting metadata in a spec like (even just normative / encouraging) I would think about the security aspect.
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schmarty for properties that can't be derived from the file itself (e.g. the existence of poster image or separate captioning tracks), perhaps the nested object makes sense.
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sknebel certainly, that's the more important part
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Zegnat agreed~
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schmarty personally i think i will move or duplicate some of the other metadata-handling onto the endpoint side, since what is desired and how to store it are going to be site-depended.
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schmarty dependent, even.
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Zegnat You need some way to say “resource A is linked to resource B by way of X”. In this case A would be a video and B an image, X describing the poster relation.
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schmarty thanks for the discussion! i am now going to perform in the first improv show at my improv company's new space!
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Zegnat Ooh, exciting schmarty! Have fun!
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sknebel see you, have fun!
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Zegnat I am now going to perform snores in my bed :D
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schmarty Zegnat: have a good show!
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[grantcodes] Ahh the end of a busy week of indieweb dev; wrote a custom token endpoint, wrote a custom micropub and media endpoint, updated my micropub library, updated my micropub chatbot and rebuilt the together reader prototype
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[grantcodes] I should probably do some work that I actually get paid for soon ?
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Loqi +1
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tantek wow
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aaronpk wow!
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tantek all I did was open source an old project to github: https://github.com/tantek/buddy-list-export
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Loqi [tantek] buddy-list-export: Buddy List Export is a script to export your iChat buddy list to open microformats standards for re-use
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aaronpk i finished a blog post :shrug:
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tantek.com edited /AIM (+924) "being discontinued, How to export your data" (view diff)
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tantek dang that would have been good to get into the newsletter. oh well next week
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aaronpk oh yeah i guess so
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tantek.com edited /export (+195) "/* Silos */ urgent / AIM, anytime, the others" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /AIM (+4) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /to-do (+1690) "turn see alsos into specific items, add Blog on Open Standards for the Decentralized Web" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /to-do (+46) "/* Blog on Open Standards for the Decentralized Web */ link to my talk" (view diff)
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aaronpk linky linky
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tantek.com edited /to-do (+133) "/* Blog State of the Interoperable Decentralized Web */ also reply to https://metaverse.wordpress.com/2017/09/10/decentralized-web-pt-3-indieweb/" (view diff)
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tantek thanks aaronpk
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tantek I kinda want to get that series published BEFORE MozFest
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tantek so folks have blog posts they can cite
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aaronpk so bummed they haven't posted the audio from that session yet
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tantek wow what
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tantek it's been over a year!
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aaronpk yep. doubt it will happen at this point
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tantek thought you recorded your own also?
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aaronpk i did but it's just the audio from my phone, which was leaning against the projector, so it's super noisy
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tantek should still be enough to get a transcript from right?
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aaronpk oh hey my post doesn't link to the video
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aaronpk fixed that
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aaronpk hm i don't have a standard way i link to the video of my presentations