#dev 2017-10-27

2017-10-27 UTC
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aaronparecki.com moved /together to /Together "proper noun"
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb () "(-20993) Added Emre Sokullu article back; fixed cut/paste error from June" (view diff)
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[eddie] !tell snarfed When fed.brid.gy says 'your site will also need to support WebSub' should we be pinging our own hub or should we be pinging hub=https://bridgy-fed.superfeedr.com/ and if it's the later, what is the topic we should be passing? The full granary URL?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] !tell snarfed or is it that bridgy fed subscribes to my h-feed and THAT needs to be WebSub enabled?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat I seem to recall the latter, [eddie]. Your site needs WebSub so the service(s) can subscribe to you
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dgold its the latter
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dgold leastways, that's how I set it up on my site, and it appears to have been succesful
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Zegnat dgold, is there a reason the MIT licence is included with nanopub when you are licensing under 0BSD?
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dgold the twitter-api.php is under MIT
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dgold but I think I'll drop it from my repo, and link to it in the docs
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Zegnat Aah, that explains it! I was confused for a bit
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dgold after spending all that time finding a twitter-api handler, and getting it to work reliably, I've pretty much given up on the platform
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@DKundel Interesting talk by @adactio about Micropub, RelMeAuth, Quill, Webmention, brid.gy and publishing across the web #viewsource @viewsourceconf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNIetREX0AMpJKi.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/923834656944001024)
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jeremycherfas Well, at least I now know there's nothing fundamentally wrong https://testknown.jeremycherfas.net/2017/new-post-from-the-os-x-app-which-may-show
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Loqi [jeremy_testknown] New post, from the OS X app, which may show up on my new Known instance. If it does, that will be a good thing. Will then add plugins one at a time, I suppose, and see when and if it breaks.
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Zegnat Exciting!
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cweiske so you wrote that with the micro.blog iOS app, and micro.blog used micropub to copy to your known instance?
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jeremycherfas Yes!
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cweiske cool.
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jeremycherfas This is interesting. The only plugin active on Stream but not on Testknown is pnut support 0.3.
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jeremycherfas I think first I will disable that first on Stream and re-attach Stream to micro.blog to see what happens.
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jeremycherfas That's not it!
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jeremycherfas My dilemma now is what to do. I could try a clean install into the previous Stream sub-domain and then re-attach it to the old DB. Does that seem logical to you guys?
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cweiske I would try to debug it, but I'm a developer and you are not.
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[kevinmarks] that seems like it might be simpler than an import/export, assuming the DB isn't corrupt
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jeremycherfas If the DB is the problem, then when I reattach to the old DB -- by editing config.ini -- the problem should show up again. Assuming it does not show up on the clean install.
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Zegnat Just make sure you have a back-up of the current db, in case this distorts anything
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jeremycherfas Yup.
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jeremycherfas Fresh install receives just fine. I guess now I can try hooking it up to the old DB.
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jeremycherfas https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/test-reconnected-to-the-old-db-deleted-all-previous-tokens
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Loqi [Jeremy Cherfas] Test: Reconnected to the old DB, deleted all previous tokens, re-authorised. The suspense is killing me.
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jeremycherfas Well, I have no greater idea of what the problem was, all I know is that it has gone away.
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jeremycherfas For now ...
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cweiske.de edited /feed_reader (+102) "/* Lack of publishing integration */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /Bloglovin (+8) (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /Feedbin (+69) (view diff)
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cweiske.de created /Category:Software:Ruby (+59) "Created page with "[[Category:Software]] indieweb software written in [[Ruby]]"" (view diff)
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cweiske.de created /Category:Software:PHP (+36) "Created page with "indieweb software written in [[PHP]]"" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /feed_reader (+13) (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /Feedly (-108) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ no source code available" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /feed_reader (+22) (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /Miniflux (+48) (view diff)
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snarfed !tell eddie,Zegnat,dgold you just need to advertise a websub hub in your atom feed. bridgy fed doesn't actually care itself; it's just how OStatus fedsocnets (and i think still Mastodon too) theoretically get your posts. will add to the docs.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi snarfed: [eddie] left you a message 6 hours, 13 minutes ago: When fed.brid.gy says 'your site will also need to support WebSub' should we be pinging our own hub or should we be pinging hub=https://bridgy-fed.superfeedr.com/ and if it's the later, what is the topic we should be passing? The full granary URL?
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Loqi snarfed: [eddie] left you a message 6 hours, 12 minutes ago: or is it that bridgy fed subscribes to my h-feed and THAT needs to be WebSub enabled?
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Zegnat Ah, I don’t have an atom feed, so guess that never applies to me then
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snarfed Zegnat: you need one for bridgy fed :P
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cweiske.de edited /feed_reader (+334) (view diff)
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snarfed e.g. https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/1441#issuecomment-302969948
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Loqi [Gargron] >an Atom feed with activitystream data Just an Atom feed will do too, but it needs to contain a link to a Pubsubhubbub hub >webfinger support Yes. Link to Atom feed, link to profile, link to salmon, magic key >an XRD at .well-known/host-...
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[kevinmarks] Too many hoops
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[eddie] snarfed: Gotcha, so Atom feed needs the hub URL and then the Atom feed itself becomes the topic?
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Loqi [eddie]: snarfed left you a message 34 minutes ago: you just need to advertise a websub hub in your atom feed. bridgy fed doesn't actually care itself; it's just how OStatus fedsocnets (and i think still Mastodon too) theoretically get your posts. will add to the docs.
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k_naming_convention (+41) "/* Unused Names */" (view diff)
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[miklb] hmm. I wonder if my Atom feed has that, maybe that’s why Mastodon doesn’t pick up my site?
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[miklb] ah, it does have rel=“hub” so that’s not it
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[miklb] unless I need to ping a specific hub other than pubsubhubbub.superfeedr.com or pubsubhubbub.appspot.com
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aaronpk you have to ping whichever hub you point to with your rel=hub
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petermolnar oh my: don't follow SQLite best practices... my search database grew to 150MB from the expected 2 due to update or insert ideas I found on the internet
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sknebel petermolnar: ?!
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[miklb] aaronpk right but I’m wondering if Mastodon needs a different hub pinged than the 2 I am now hitting
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aaronpk mastodon should be subscribing to whatever hub you link to in rel=hub
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petermolnar sknebel I hit 2 problems: a, the is_uptodate wasn't working because int field was getting a float to check against, so on every run I did "update xyz" followed by "insert or ignore into", but it seems like this is a really bad idea when you use the fts5 engine
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[miklb] hmm. OK. I’m still not finding my posts on mastodon.social when I search
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petermolnar oh b, was the second part
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aaronpk afaik you'll only appear there if someone with an account on mastodon.social has followed you
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[miklb] oh
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aaronpk and I don't think it goes and crawls old posts either, it'll only get posts that you make after someone follows you
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[miklb] so how can I follow my miklb.com feed with my mastodon.social account if I can’t find it in a search. That seems very odd at first glance
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aaronpk oh searching for a user? you'll show up as a search result even if your hub isn't set up right, but following won't work
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aaronpk if you're not showing up there then it's because all the bits it needs to consider you an "account" aren't there
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aaronpk i got like 60% of the way on my domain and then gave up
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[miklb] gotcha So I don’t have all the bits either
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aaronpk sometimes i get tired of all the boilerplate work it takes to start a new project
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aaronparecki.com edited /React (+458) "add quote from netflix" (view diff)
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aaronpk `npm install`
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aaronpk goes and makes coffee
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aaronpk while hundreds of megabytes are downloaded
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www.svenknebel.de edited /React (+73) "/* harms frontend performance */ add link to video" (view diff)
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[tantek] Any reason for hierarchical wiki categories? Flat first until we actually have problems with that? Presumably Category:PHP would be sufficient? cc: cweiske
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[tantek] looks for quotes about "premature hierarchy"
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aaronpk it makes the category views slightly nicer, e.g. https://indieweb.org/Category:Software shows all the subcategories
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[eddie] !tell manton Successful post from the iOS app to my micropub endpoint (https://eddiehinkle.com/2017/10/27/8/article/) only problem I seem to have run into is my JSON feed not getting pulled in (https://eddiehinkle.com/timeline/feed.json) is WebSub required for the JSON feed? If so, that's the missing piece
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Eddie Hinkle] Testing out the first post that should be pushed to my website and also funneled into https://micro.blog
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Zegnat Did we ever document on the wiki what TLDs were safe for local development?
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sknebel Zegnat: can't remember if we did
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sknebel not sure where that'd be
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Zegnat I am just going to write a bit on the wiki about it on TLD
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sknebel Zegnat: k. RFC2606 is your reference if you haven't seen that yet ;)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Top-level-domain (+1236) "Detail TLDs for web development, why not to use .dev, other options, and link a tutorial" (view diff)
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Zegnat There we go. Feel free to review sknebel.
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Zegnat I am actually citing you in chat rather than RFC, I couldn’t be bothered to read the RFC right now ;)
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sknebel looks good. should mention .local at some point as well, I made a todo for me.
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sknebel also I thought we had more detailed notes about types of TLDs, should add a few words about that as well
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dgold was about to say .test, but yeah
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Loqi dgold: snarfed left you a message 5 hours, 4 minutes ago: you just need to advertise a websub hub in your atom feed. bridgy fed doesn't actually care itself; it's just how OStatus fedsocnets (and i think still Mastodon too) theoretically get your posts. will add to the docs.
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dgold ahhhhhhhh
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dgold okay
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dgold have I mentioned how much I hate atom.xml?
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Zegnat sknebel, might be worth adding .local as it can confuse people. I just wanted to highlight the web-dev angle first
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Zegnat dgold, yeah, I have moved over to .test locally
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dgold i did not realise that google had registered .dev
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dgold 'do no evil'
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aaronpk i guess i should move to .test but i have a whole SSL setup on .dev so it works fine
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Zegnat to be fair, this way no sleezy marketing firm gets to overload .dev. It is really just the HSTS that changed things for local development.
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snarfed !tell aaronpk,miklb,dgold,eddie as you all have noticed, following/reading/post propagation between indieweb and fedsocnets is definitely the biggest hole in bridgy fed that still really needs to be nailed down
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed !tell aaronpk,miklb,dgold,eddie you all have researched more than me so far, and i may not prioritize it myself near term, so i'd love your input! e.g. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/14
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [snarfed] #14 docs for following and delivering posts, both directions
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sknebel snarfed: from skimming the w3c chat, seems like the test suite is more stable/useable now
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dgold well, okay, I agree ith the fairness of that point, Zegnat
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sknebel (and you can find its developer there to bug if not ;))
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aaronpk i don't think i know enough of how mastodon actually works, but i know the end result that I *want* to have happen
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Loqi aaronpk: snarfed left you a message 1 minute ago: as you all have noticed, following/reading/post propagation between indieweb and fedsocnets is definitely the biggest hole in bridgy fed that still really needs to be nailed down
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snarfed sknebel: https://activitypub.rocks/ ?! it was just an interactive form for generating an implementation report when i tried it a few days ago
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snarfed at least for server to server. it did zero actual testing :P
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dgold mastodon has such multiplicity/redundancy of data-propagation, its really sorta insane
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sknebel https://test.activitypub.rocks/ yes. I think tantek pinged you when they mentioned it on the call, prior to actually deploying it
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sknebel (and it was buggy)
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sknebel since I don't know if you follow the w3c chat I thought I'd report what I read to you ;)
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snarfed sknebel: i tried it all the way through. it never actually tested anything, just collected my answers to questions and generated an implementation report
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sknebel snarfed: well, they are talking about running tests with other instances, so something has to be there now
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dgold the bug that was thrown up by my post, I dug around in the data, and there are something north of six different pseudo-canonical urls for each datapoint
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dgold snarfed: should put the atom-thing as a declaration in the fed.bridgy docs
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snarfed sknebel: since 3d ago? possible, but doubtful. i expect that was when they discussed it and when tantek pinged me
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snarfed dgold: i did! https://fed.brid.gy/#WebSub
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Loqi Ryan Barrett
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snarfed again, maybe it actually tests something in client to server, but definitely not server to server
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dgold og, I meant put a sample config in the docs, as you have with the <link rel="alternate" ... stuff
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snarfed dgold: but still, bridgy fed could definitely do more to help people follow and read posts across. i'd love help in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/14 !
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Loqi [snarfed] #14 docs for following and delivering posts, both directions
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snarfed ah sure!
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snarfed back in a bit
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sknebel snarfed: ah, you might be right and I misread that. sorry
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sknebel and aaronpk just asked for clarification before I could do that
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[miklb] think I’m the same as aaronpk “i don’t think i know enough of how mastodon actually works, but i know the end result that I *want* to have happen”
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Loqi [miklb]: snarfed left you a message 14 minutes ago: as you all have noticed, following/reading/post propagation between indieweb and fedsocnets is definitely the biggest hole in bridgy fed that still really needs to be nailed down
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Loqi [miklb]: snarfed left you a message 14 minutes ago: you all have researched more than me so far, and i may not prioritize it myself near term, so i'd love your input! e.g. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/14
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Loqi (+172) "/* Other */ !block from Twitter searches" (view diff)
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sknebel https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/blink-dev/he9tr7p3rZ8/eNMwKPmUBAAJ
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sknebel "Intent To Deprecate And Remove: Public Key Pinning"
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aaronpk sure seems like anything involving public key distribution seems to fail eventually
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aaronpk this is why i'm not thrilled about the idea of using public keys for social networking stuff
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sknebel hm
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sknebel yes, "the key is the identity" is actually quite similar to key pinning in a way
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sknebel in that it doesn't plan for key changes
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sknebel hadn't thought about it that way before
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www.boffosocko.com edited /OPML (+240) "feed readers; example" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Aaronpk - I'm intrigued by Glitch's approach to projects. I may play with that next
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sknebel [kevinmarks]: glitch.com? the authorship-discovery-tester I made a while back I made on glitch as a test
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www.boffosocko.com edited /lost_infrastructure (+219) "wikification of some links; added OPML, Intense Debate, feed readers" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Disqus (+113) "pagelogo; moved TOC for better display" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com created /Intense_Debate (+1712) "stub; definition; basics; export; see also" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /OPML (+425) "subscription, tools" (view diff)