#dev 2017-11-09

2017-11-09 UTC
j12t, j12t_, tantek, jjuran and snarfed joined the channel
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /Micropub/Clients (+587) "/* Client implementation requests */ +Ulysses request" (view diff)
[eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] I just filled out a Ulysses (writing app) feedback form requesting Micropub support ? Here's to hoping it gets some traction with them
#
aaronpk ooh
[miklb] joined the channel
#
[miklb] that would be spectacular. I’ve been using Ulysses a lot lately.
#
gRegorLove What is Ulysses?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Ulysses" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
[miklb] Ulysses is an iOS & macOS markdown writing app that supports publishing to WordPress via xmlrpc.
#
[miklb] may be too late with that
eli_oat, snarfed and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] miklb yeah, I write all my blog posts (as well as other long-form writing) in Ulysses. Currently I then go from there to copy it as rich text and paste into Quill's Editor and post. So it would be awesome to just be able to click a button and have it post to my site :)
#
[miklb] if that were to happen, a hosted version of voxpelli’s micropub to github might be worth putting together.
#
[miklb] Add the coming ability to add themes from GitHub hosted gems, would be really easy to use Jekyll on GitHub pages for IndieWeb.
[eddie], Kaja, wladz, sebsel, Ruxton and renem joined the channel
#
00dani.me edited /User:00dani.me (+348) "/* itches */ progress! basically, micropub works now but needs more love" (view diff)
KartikPrabhu, tbbrown, rhiaro and eli_oat joined the channel
#
oodani Hmm. According to the Micropub spec, the URLs given to files posted to the media endpoint should be "unguessable" - but based on what information? Naming the file after a hash of its content is easily guessable if you already have the content, but pretty much impossible if you don't.
#
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: ^^
gRegorLove, [asuh], jjuran and treora joined the channel
#
aaronpk Heh interesting
#
aaronpk that seems like not a super useful attack tho
#
aaronpk if you have a file, and you know a media endpoint uses a hash mechanism, then at best you can find out if that endpoint has stored the file
#
oodani In most cases the presence of a file would be public knowledge anyway, since if you upload to a micropub media endpoint you'll probably subsequently use the uploaded file in an entry, right?
#
oodani I'm trying to understand why the media URL should be unguessable, basically. What's the threat model?
myfreeweb, grantcodes, AlanPearce[m], eli_oat[m], plindner, mindB, zoglesby, schmarty, TheGillies, [jeremycherfas], cweiske, saranix, barpthewire, davidmead and tantek joined the channel
#
@remouk @nhoizey Je suis en tout point d'accord avec ton article. :) Je me renseigne doucement sur #webmention dont je n'av… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/928547984060633088 (twitter.com/_/status/928547984060633088)
Zegnat joined the channel
#
Zegnat Loqi, + me and tell me about messages :D
KartikPrabhu, dansup, dgold and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
@nhoizey It looks like Webmention reposts are no longer rendered… ? https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/11/medium-is-only-an-edge-server-of-your-posse-cdn-your-own-blog-is-the-origin.html#webmentions_reposts I’ll check this ASAP. +@AaronGustafson (twitter.com/_/status/928561200924909568)
barpthewire, davidmead, loicm, John___, rMdes_, jeremycherfas and [keithjgrant] joined the channel
#
aaronpk oodani: well you definitely don't want to be able to iterate every file
#
aaronpk for example I often post screenshots to my media endpoint and then either don't use them in a post or use them in a private post, but the file itself isn't behind any other authentication
#
aaronpk kind of like how Instagram or Flickr photo URLs don't require authentication even if the parent post does
#
oodani Ah. Yeah, makes sense.
eli_oat, tbbrown, tbbrown_, snarfed, [tantek] and deathrow1 joined the channel
#
aaronpk anyone else have to deal with re-mapping webmentions when their URLs change slightly?
#
aaronpk wondering how I should handle that for people with webmention.io
#
aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/92
#
Loqi [keithjgrant] #92 Fetch WMs for aliased/equivalent URLs
[asuh] joined the channel
#
sknebel My code follows redirects at the time of validation, so if the URL is valid when sent it works
#
sknebel I guess if I couldn't just remap them internally when changing the final target afterwards (e.g. adding HTTPS), I might just resend them all
#
aaronpk I probably need to update webmention.io to follow redirects of the target when a WM is received, but this question is actually about handling changes to URLs after a WM has already been processed
#
sknebel Resending then is a possible answer, if you don't want to allow rewriting them
#
sknebel (Assuming people are willing to live with potentially loosing those pointing to dead URLs
#
sknebel And for large sites that might be a lot of work, my site doesn't get all that many WMs)
[eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] I think there are two different issues. I think there are changed "permalinks" and there are url variations. I think keith's issue is about variations rather than actual changes.
#
[eddie] What about normalizing urls? (ignore the difference between http and https? and ignoring trailing slashes? I find it hard to imagine a world in which webmentions would need to be seperated based on https and trailing slashes?
#
[eddie] I would say changed permalinks should be on the consumer
#
[eddie] and wm.io could handle variations through normalization
#
schmarty i use the wmio api to pull down all mentions for my site, normalized just to target path
#
aaronpk he effectively changed his URLs when he added https
#
schmarty when i go to pull those pages, i look for aliases (with/without trailing slash)
#
aaronpk trailing slashes are not a thing!
#
aaronpk they are just different URLs
#
aaronpk unless you redirect one to the other
#
aaronpk e.g. https://indieweb.org/2015 and https://indieweb.org/2015/
#
schmarty my site redirects without to with, so generally that doesn't matter
#
aaronpk yeah if you redirect one to the other that's fine. I actually have a mix of them but they redirect appropriately.
#
[eddie] Wow I have never seen a site actually differentiate pages based on a slash
#
[eddie] But apparently that is a thing
#
schmarty but i do want to display mentions for near misses like that, which could have come in when i was not redirecting, for example.
#
aaronpk the best way is to catch these at receive time
#
aaronpk if someone sends a WM with a target URL that is a redirect on your site to another page, then you map that when you receive it
#
schmarty my bigger case for aliases is when changing URLs
#
aaronpk but if you *change* your URLs, either minor changes like http->https, or even major changes like when I totally redid my URL structure, that's a different problem
#
schmarty my podcast at wehavetoask.com is available at http and https
#
schmarty but also went to a different permalink structure for a while when i first enabled micropub
#
aaronpk I guess I could make a feature to update webmentions in webmention.io, but i'm not sure I can think of a way to automatically trigger that.
#
schmarty i recently "fixed" that, going back to my old permalink style and creating redirects for everything
#
schmarty but i also wanted those old wmio mentions to show up on the page without needed to resend anything
#
aaronpk what if there was an API endpoint on webmention.io for you to tell it about a redirect
#
schmarty so i index wms without protocol and even without domain, just the path
#
aaronpk it would fetch the page and find the redirect, then update the webmentions it has to be associated with the new URL
#
schmarty and at render time i search that index for old aliases
#
schmarty aaronpk: that makes some sense. i am not sure why i decided it should be handled on my fetching/rendering end other than because it could.
#
sknebel It's tricky what's the best way for global changes like http-https. Allow rewriting with some kind of pattern? Specialcase that one? Have an option to have wm.io check all receiving pages for a domain for new redirects? (Better than reprocessing all mentions at least)
[keithjgrant] joined the channel
#
[keithjgrant] aaronpk: I could see some sort of way to tell wm.io about redirects so it can update existing WMs. My site redirects all four versions of the URL to the same one
#
[keithjgrant] I do have some permalinks that have fully changed, so that could cover that use case too (though in my case, I didn't support WMs at the time of that change)
#
www.boffosocko.com edited /personal-domain (+30) "[[Category:building-blocks]]" (view diff)
#
www.boffosocko.com edited /Category:building-blocks (+230) "Identity section with h-cards, rel-me, microformats" (view diff)
tantek and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
www.boffosocko.com edited /h-card (+266) "IndieWeb examples section" (view diff)
#
aaronpk yeah the more I think about it the more I think I like this idea
#
aaronpk interesting, tantek will get a kick out of this. backblaze sent me an email with this warning: We’ve detected that your account has Time-Based One-Time Passwords (ToTP) turned on as your Two-Factor Verification (2FV) method of authentication, and that you have SMS Fallback turned "Off."
#
aaronpk backblaze-email-logo.jpg
#
aaronpk Hello,
#
aaronpk We’ve detected that your account has Time-Based One-Time Passwords (ToTP) turned on as your Two-Factor Verification (2FV) method of authentication, and that you have SMS Fallback turned "Off."
#
aaronpk If you have ToTP enabled and do not have Backup Codes or SMS fallback enabled, Backblaze cannot unlock your Backblaze account if you lose your ToTP device
#
aaronpk whoops overly eager copypaste
#
aaronpk this is interesting for two reasons: 1) they are promoting SMS as a fallback 2fa method, and 2) they claim they will not be able to "unlock" my account without the TOTP device if that's the only 2fa method on my account
snarfed joined the channel
#
vanderven.se martijn edited /h-card (+561) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add my bonkers h-card as an example. Prompted by chrisaldrich." (view diff)
snarfed joined the channel
#
sknebel Zegnat: read the discussion about discovery of a bigger h-card on a different page again
#
sknebel (clarification "I read")
#
sknebel sounds interesting, although my first ideas all boil down to using u-uid to point somewhere else than the homepage, which seems wrong as well (at least to my intuition about what u-uid is about, which might not match others)
#
sknebel I also wonder what "contains a single h-card" means in the represenative algorithm: http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-h-card-parsing - a top-level one or any?
#
Loqi representative-h-card-parsing
#
www.boffosocko.com edited /rel-me (+201) "Distributed Verification browser extension by Kevin Marks; see also: verified" (view diff)
#
loqi.me edited /Top-level-domain (+79) "aaronpk added "https://getstream.io/blog/stop-using-io-domain-names-for-production-traffic/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
#
tantek what is a shortdomain
#
Loqi short domains are commonly used on the IndieWeb for personal URL shortening, or clever domain hacks https://indieweb.org/shortdomain
#
tantek aaronpk ^^^ been keeping track of .io and related there
#
aaronparecki.com edited /short-domains (+138) "/* io */" (view diff)
#
aaronpk ?
#
sknebel that might be worth moving to TLD or maybe an extra page? since "what's a good TLD" is generally relevant?
#
aaronpk the proliferation of new TLDs has actually made the operational concerns of TLDs more important
#
tantek short-domains was started to keep track of what folks were using / considering for personal shorteners
#
tantek I'd prefer to not lose that focus
#
tantek or dilute it in the "what domain name overall?" question
#
www.boffosocko.com edited /verified (+878) "Twitter controversy over verification; Indieweb examples of distributed verification" (view diff)
#
aaronpk the TLD question applies to all domains, not just short domains
#
tantek sure, so the TLD page can delegate to the short-domains page for those
#
tantek but the opposite isn't true so it makes sense to keep short-domain separate
#
www.boffosocko.com edited /verified (+429) "/* Twitter */ Twitter's admission of the problem" (view diff)
#
vanderven.se martijn edited /h-card (+130) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add link to microformats wiki for more examples" (view diff)
KartikPrabhu and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Aaronpk - the 302 vs 301 redirect distinction is important for webmention - if it's a 301 it should update the displayed link, but a 302 shouldn't
[jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
aaronpk not sure what you mean. when webmention.io receives a webmention, it should store it at the redirected URL for both 301 and 302 I would think.
#
aaronpk for this new update feature, i'm going to make that an explicit action that you have to take, so there isn't really much of a difference between returning 301/302 in that case either, tho I could make it only update the webmentions on a 301 response.
#
Zegnat sknebel, to answer your previous answer, I would say any h-card no matter where in the tree. If its url property points to the current page that is the important take-away, not whether it sits at the root
#
Zegnat But maybe make it a discussion point on the wiki?
#
sknebel Zegnat: but without the rel-me, it has to be the *only* h-card on the page
#
Zegnat yeah, but I don’t think it matters where that is
#
sknebel trying to understand where the cases come from/how you'd use them. (I remember Angelo Gladding's crawler project looked for them, and it didn't like mine, I think due to my redirect of the homepage). Also didn't want to add a note without at least checking if context can be gotten in chat
#
sknebel sure, but does an h-card in an article on my front page "neutralize" the top-level one or not?
#
Zegnat According to how that text is written, I would say yes. The algo seems to look at *any and all* hcard objects.
#
[kevinmarks] If you're strict, 301 is permanent, so you should change what you have cached, whereas 302/307 is temporary, so you should keep the original link as it may resolve differently next time
#
aaronpk what you're saying doesn't apply to webmention.io
tantek joined the channel
#
sknebel Does anything/anyone use the notion of representative h-card for anything?
#
aaronpk sknebel: telegraph uses it to find your profile info when you log in
#
snarfed sknebel: bridgy and bridgy fed definitely use it, as do *-atom
#
aaronpk XRay follows the /authorship algorithm but I think that's technically a separate thing, not a subset or superset of representative
#
tantek Zegnat yes. "top level" or not is not a great way to distinguish things where you're looking for stuff in general
#
sknebel the authorship algorithm has similar steps, but interestingly not identical ones
#
tantek because authorship can come from outside of h-card
#
sknebel authorship uses different steps while identifying which h-card to select from an author page
#
Zegnat ... I thought they overlapped. Guess I need to reread those.
#
Zegnat Thought both were grabbing the “representative” card from a URL
#
sknebel authorship accepts a superset of those that the representative algorithm accepts
#
Zegnat authorship algo of course when author is a URL, so after that I mean
#
sknebel rereading precisely, only the last step differs: where representative insists on there being a single h-card on the page, authorship a) ignores non matching and b) uses the first of multiple (as do the steps before in both algorithms)
#
Zegnat That makes more sense. I didn’t think they were that different. So maybe worth documenting the difference in the last step, and looking at which one to change to get them inline?
#
tantek that is an interesting difference
#
tantek perhaps worth finding real world examples that work with one but not the other?
#
sknebel hm...
#
tantek is there an implementation of either / both as part of indiewebify.me?
#
tantek to determine authorship of an h-entry etc.?
#
tantek perhaps that could even indicate which step of the algorithm that is being used to determine authorship
#
tantek and/or representative h-card
#
tantek and maybe make suggested improvements/
#
tantek ?
#
sknebel indiewebify.me seems down for me right now, so I can't check and don't remember anything like that
#
tantek uh oh
#
tantek what is monitoring
#
Loqi monitoring is automated collection of a site or app's vital stats, e.g https://indieweb.org/monitoring
#
sknebel for authorship "explainer" there is https://sturdy-backbone.glitch.me/ (which could use some polish)
#
snarfed sknebel: it's up for me
#
[kevinmarks] Hm. Maybe I'm missing something. If I webmention with a variant url as source (missing www or trailing / or whatever) shouldn't webmention.io follow and change what is shown?
#
sknebel snarfed: now it works... timed out a minute ago
#
tantek spec should be clear on this and how / when to handle redirects
renem_ joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com edited /migration (+1221) "dreamhost forum migration" (view diff)
#
sknebel indiewebify.me shows representative h-card
#
tantek what is representative h-card
#
Loqi The representative h-card for a page is an h-card on that page that represents that page, if any, as not all pages are about a person or organization, a page might not have a representative h-card https://indieweb.org/representative_h-card
#
tantek sknebel: which test? can you add a direct link to the indiewebify.me representative h-card test to ^^^ perhaps in a new section "Tools" ?
#
www.svenknebel.de edited /representative_h-card (+124) "/* How To Publish */ add test link to indiewebify.me" (view diff)
raretrack joined the channel
#
www.boffosocko.com edited /silo-quits (+285) "Nelson Minar rage quitting twitter for Nazis" (view diff)
j12t, KartikPrabhu, [keithjgrant], [chrisaldrich], cweiske and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] !tell aaronpk cleverdevil miklb dougbeal dgold FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undetermined
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[eddie] just to find out if there are any bugs in the IndieAuth/micropub posting workflow.
#
sknebel [eddie]: tell's for multiple people work with , not spaces between user names
#
[eddie] ohhhhh
#
[eddie] Thanks ?
#
[eddie] !tell aaronpk, cleverdevil, miklb, dougbeal, dgold FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undeterm
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[eddie] great just to find out if there are any bugs in the IndieAuth/micropub posting workflow.
#
[eddie] Like that?
snarfed joined the channel
#
sknebel I think no spaces at all, so username1,username2,username3 <message> (maybe it works with comma-space as well? not sure)
#
[eddie] ohhhh, gotcha. We'll try this one more time and hopefully we don't end up spamming everyone with several copies when they arrive. ?
#
[eddie] !tell aaronpk,cleverdevil,miklb,dougbeal,dgold FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undetermined
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[eddie] just to find out if there are any bugs in the IndieAuth/micropub posting workflow.
#
[eddie] !tell miklb,dougbeal I didn't see a /contact page on your sites so if you want to send me your email to eddie [at] eddiehinkle [dot] com I'll send you the TestFlight invite (this includes anyone else that is interested but hasn't expressed interest previously)
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[eddie] Alright, all done. no more tells for me today ?
tantek and [miklb] joined the channel
#
[miklb] .
#
Loqi [miklb]: [eddie] left you a message 42 minutes ago: FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undeterm
#
Loqi [miklb]: [eddie] left you a message 39 minutes ago: FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undetermined
#
Loqi [miklb]: [eddie] left you a message 39 minutes ago: I didn't see a /contact page on your sites so if you want to send me your email to eddie [at] eddiehinkle [dot] com I'll send you the TestFlight invite (this includes anyone else that is interested but hasn't expressed interest previously)
#
[miklb] eddie you’ve got mail thanks!
#
aaronpk I think it works with space too
#
Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 49 minutes ago: cleverdevil miklb dougbeal dgold FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undetermined
#
Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 47 minutes ago: FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undeterm
#
Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 44 minutes ago: FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undetermined
#
aaronpk lolol
#
aaronpk well this is exciting
#
[eddie] lol apparently the space works too.
#
sknebel oops, sorry then
#
[eddie] no worries ?
#
[eddie] It's waiting for TestFlight Review, but once the Apple gatekeepers approve it, you all should receive the invite emails and be able to download it. I'm excited to have my Mac computer issues all worked out and have my dev credentials all set up again ? Now I can pull it out to work on it more often
#
aaronpk sweet
#
sknebel what is Indigenous?
#
Loqi Indigenous is a native app for iOS and macOS for posting your website using Micropub https://indieweb.org/Indigenous
#
schmarty [eddie] is it too late to join indigenous beta? I’m an iOS person once again
#
[eddie] schmarty: never too late :) I'll send the email to the one in your h-card
#
[eddie] (doesn't have to be your itunes account just has to be an email that you can click on inside of your iOS device)
#
oodani Hmm, weird. Omnibear can't find my endpoints properly - it says "Missing micropub data on https://00dani.me. Please ensure the following links are present: authorization_endpoint, token_endpoint, micropub"? Yet, Quill found all three without any problem and I've been publishing using it for the past week. ?
[dgold] joined the channel
#
[dgold] Hey the indieweb
#
Loqi [dgold]: [eddie] left you a message 1 hour, 19 minutes ago: FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undeterm
#
Loqi [dgold]: [eddie] left you a message 1 hour, 15 minutes ago: FYI, I'm opening up the beta of Indigenous for iOS. Before anyone gets too excited it currently supports using the share extension when activated against a URL (in safari or other apps like TweetBot) for the following actions: Like, Repost and Bookmark. The next build will hopefully support posting notes and replies. The micropub media endpoint stuff will be in the third build (timeline undetermined
#
[dgold] Wrecking my head with ternary operators.
#
[dgold] Ooooh, Eddie, that sounds ?
tantek, tbbrown, leg and [keithjgrant] joined the channel
#
[keithjgrant] .
snarfed joined the channel