#dev 2017-11-29

2017-11-29 UTC
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loqi.me edited /repost (+82) "[kevinmarks] added "early example of ♺ use by Ev Williams https://twitter.com/ev/status/923901604" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek gosh looks like I need to now work on owning my own private events! (I only have public events on my site now)
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tantek I've confirmed it with a co-host of a private event I organized on 2017-01-18 - neither of us can load the FB event permalink anymore
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tantek the URL was https://www.facebook.com/events/1822991067975267 (which should be ok to share, as it should only work if you're logged in and were added to the event)
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[kevinmarks] Is it gone from the ics export too?
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cweiske .
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@charlesroper @sil @dracos What about IndieAuth? I noticed Webmentions.io is using it yesterday. (twitter.com/_/status/935818750472916993)
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@charlesroper @sil @dracos Courtesy link: https://indieauth.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/935819152601776128)
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@sil @charlesroper @dracos I... don't think indieauth helps? That lets me sign in to sites as http://kryogenix.org but delegate that checking to github. It doesn't let me sign in to a site _as_ github, does it? And I don't think there's a way of misusing it to do that, but I'm open to ideas here! (twitter.com/_/status/935819476892831744)
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@martijnvdven @sil @charlesroper @dracos http://IndieAuth.com implements http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth and requires those links, so no, it can't be used in the way you describe. You'd want http://IndieAuth.com without the rel="me" requirement: a service for webapps to talk to that handles all the different OAuths. (twitter.com/_/status/935858114133483520)
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cweiske [object Object]
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cweiske OmnibearError fetching token from token endpoint
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cweiske :/
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cweiske [keithjgrant], the omnibear addon details do not link to the homepage nor source code
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sknebel [keithjgrant]: and the addon description on AMO should say "Your blog must support IndieAuth and Micropub" instead of "Your blog must support RelMeAuth and micropub"
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@sil @martijnvdven @charlesroper Yeah. I was hoping that if I put my auth URL into indieauth AS http://github.com/myusername, then it wouldn't bother following rel=me links and would just use it directly, but no. Might be an interesting enhancement, @aaronparecki? I bet @kevinmarks can tell me why it's a bad idea ;) (twitter.com/_/status/935888200035393537)
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@aaronpk @sil @martijnvdven @charlesroper @aaronparecki @kevinmarks @sil Not a *bad* idea, but also not the goal of http://indieauth.com. At some point you'll be relying on someone's Github/Google API key, either that of http://indieauth.com or another service. Maybe check out https://oauth.io/ or https://auth0.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/935890227809230848)
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@sil @aaronpk @martijnvdven @charlesroper @aaronparecki @kevinmarks You're right about indieauth, yeah, true :) I looked at auth0, who have the same "you have to register a callback URL" problem. Didn't try oauth.io; thank you! I wish OpenID hadn't gone away; this was completely what it was for :) (twitter.com/_/status/935890703405797376)
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j4y_funabashi hey I am rebuilding my micropub server and thinking of adding a couple of things. Using the 'me' value in the verify token response as the author of posts (so I could potentially have multiple people post to my endpoint)
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Loqi j4y_funabashi: aaronpk left you a message on 2017-10-23 at 8:42pm UTC: I'm back in town, happy to talk Microsub this week! I'm hoping to make a bit of time to start prototyping something too
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aaronpk j4y_funabashi: seems reasonable, if you issue tokens to multiple people
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j4y_funabashi yeah, my current server just adds me as the author of all posts and I would like to allow other people to post on this new server
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j4y_funabashi aaronpk: my Microsub server went off the boil a bit as I realized my micropub server + feed did not support all the things I'd like them to
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aaronpk :)
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aaronpk I made some good progress on my microsub server finally!
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j4y_funabashi nice1, has the spec got more detailed as a result?
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aaronpk yep!
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[manton] I was just looking over the spec yesterday. Definitely more detailed since I last checked it out!
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aaronpk yeah! and everything except block/mute is implemented in Monocle now
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aaronpk i'm due for a Percolator episode about this progress, maybe I can knock that out today now that my voice doesn't sound like a sick person anymore
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j4y_funabashi second micropub question is around private posts. Do people implement this with a mp-* command?
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j4y_funabashi I suppose there is mp-audience = url1,url2
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aaronpk right now Quill uses "visibility" to indicate public or private https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Visibility
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j4y_funabashi but then I like the idea from the groups discussion around pointing to a url with hcards of people you want to see the posts
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aaronpk since there aren't many implementations of even sharing with private groups yet, it hasn't made its way into micropub yet
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aaronpk start with publishing limited-audience posts before worrying about how to fit it into micropub
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j4y_funabashi ah ok so you use a property on the post
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j4y_funabashi rather than an mp-* command
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aaronpk yeah because when I'm looking at the post on my site, I want to know whether it's public or private, so it's visible data on the post
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j4y_funabashi I have been watching this https://indieweb.org/2017/D%C3%BCsseldorf/groups and really like the idea of "Access control based on groups (lists of h-cards)"
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sknebel IMHO makes more sense also because you might change the visibility
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aaronpk yeah I have a rough implementation of post visibility based on h-cards but it needs a lot more work still
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sknebel (my private posts currently don't work through micropub, since I don't have my own client and didn't want to fork one to add custom properties)
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j4y_funabashi yeah its a tricky one, I guess my question would be how to tell which urls are people, and which are lists of h-cards
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aaronpk sknebel: did you document that anywhere yet?
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aaronpk I don't see you on https://indieweb.org/private#IndieWeb_Examples
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sknebel under private webmentions
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aaronpk ah cool
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Zegnat !tell j4y_funabashi I was thinking about multiple people posting to a micropub endpoint not too long ago - https://indieweb.org/Micropub-brainstorming#Users_using_their_own_identities_to_log-in_to_a_community_blog.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk hey this is a neat tool https://sequencediagram.org/
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aaronpk anyone know of a tool to export all the posts of a private facebook group?
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tantek that would be very useful
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aaronpk i'm going to archive a private group soon but I want to export all the posts first
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tantek as well as a tool to subscribe to the posts of a private FB group
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aaronpk let's see if it's even in the facebook export
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snarfed aaronpk: https://neotoma.io/ ?
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snarfed tantek: i think https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ includes private group posts. not sure.
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tantek snarfed did you see my q re: private FB events disappearing last night?
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snarfed nope
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snarfed oh vaguely yes
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aaronpk tries out neotoma
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aaronpk doh
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aaronpk "Facebook isn't supported yet"
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tantek what is neotoma
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Loqi neotoma is an PASTA/PESOS project by Mark Hendrickson https://indieweb.org/neotoma
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aaronpk *after* I authorized dropbox already
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aaronpk that was sneaky
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snarfed ?! aww. could have sworn i used it with FB a bit ago
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aaronpk got me all excited
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tantek snarfed, anyway, was just curious if you'd heard of anything similar (any private FB posts disappearing)
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tantek I was surprised
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aaronpk I may just resort to manual screenshots
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snarfed tantek: not sure
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tantek aaronpk what about that clientside archiving tool?
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tantek what is archival copy
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Loqi An archival copy is a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time, that can be used as a reference if the original disappears or is temporarily unavailable https://indieweb.org/archival_copy
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tantek webrecorder.io
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tantek that would seem at least a little better than screenshots
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aaronpk hm is that going to work with all the crazy facebook JS?
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tantek yes that's the point
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aaronpk hmm, a little concerning that facebook's login appears when I paste in the group URL
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tantek I don't think FB likes when you go to their private URLs directly
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aaronpk I dont' think facebook likes being iframed
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aaronpk the group URL works fine directly
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tantek interesting
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aaronpk it's making me register this as a new browser
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aaronpk let's see what this warc file has
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aaronpk I scrolled through all the posts and expanded all the comment sections
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aaronpk hmm it appears to be a bunch of gzip http requests in this file
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aaronpk completely incomprehensible
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tantek perhaps needing a WARC unpacker?
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aaronpk downloads their desktop viewer app
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tantek steps back from the rabbithole
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aaronpk https://github.com/webrecorder/webrecorderplayer-electron/releases
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sknebel > hmm it appears to be a bunch of gzip http requests in this file <- that's what WARC is. log of all HTTP requests
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aaronpk yes but they're all gzip so not super inspectable
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aaronpk the desktop player seems to be doing okay with it, but i'm going to try going offline and see how much this is loading from facebook.com
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aaronpk so close
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aaronpk it did pretty well, but after a couple of scrolls down the page, the infinite scroll thing stopped working
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aaronpk so, as long as electron continues to be supported on osx, this archive is about 40% accessible
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aaronpk this feels pretty fragile though
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aaronpk gonna go with my original screenshot plan instead :)
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aaronpk well deleting a facebook group is super not intuitive
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aaronpk remove each member, then remove yourself
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tantek how computer sciencey
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aaronpk hm no "Group" section https://indieweb.org/Facebook#Features
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:facebook-remove-from-group-prompt.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:facebook-remove-from-group-prompt.png"
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aaronparecki.com edited /Facebook (+212) "/* Features */ add group stub section and screenshot of removing someone" (view diff)
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tantek what is a group
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Loqi group in the context of the indieweb (also "indie group" or "indie groups") is a place where people can deliberately share content with each other, not necessarily on their own domain (though likely copied from via webmention etc.) https://indieweb.org/group
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tantek.com edited /group (+36) "put examples first, add silo examples" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:facebook-leave-group-delete.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:facebook-leave-group-delete.png"
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aaronparecki.com edited /Facebook (+175) "/* Groups */" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh look at all the pending group invites I have
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aaronpk wonder why I never noticed those
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tantek group << private group
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loqi.me edited /group (+20) "tantek added "[[private group]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[[private group]]" to the "See Also" section of /group
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tantek what is a private group?
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Loqi A private group is a group where the posts, members, and any other content in the group is only viewable by members of the group, a common social silo feature (like on Facebook) https://indieweb.org/private_group
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tantek aaronpk feel free to expand ^^^
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aaronpk aaand just uploaded screenshots of all the private posts to flickr because I don't have a better solution for archiving images ?
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aaronpk group deleted
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tantek I think that's definitely worthy of documenting on /private_group#Facebook
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tantek the how to delete a private group
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tantek as well as archive
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tantek seems non-obvious from what you said
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gregorlove.com edited /read (+229) "/* gRegor Morrill */ +aggregation page, dates" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn created /User:Vanderven.se_martijn/hwc-2017-333 (+4725) "Notes~" (view diff)
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@nhoizey @aaronpk hi Aaron, I have an issue with SSL calls to webmention.io and wonder if you’re aware of anything wrong on it. It might be on my side, but it worked last week and I didn’t change anything. I’m using @AaronGustafson’s Jekyll plugin: https://github.com/aarongustafson/jekyll-webmention_io/issues/72 (twitter.com/_/status/935991987362324481)
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tantek.com edited /repost (+305) "/* The Most Reposted Thing */ the most retweeted thing, plea for nuggets beats ellen oscars selfie ?" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /most_retweeted (+34) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /most_retweeted_tweet (+34) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk: I just opened an Emoji Detector PR
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loqi.me created /sensitive_material (+254) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /sensitive_media (+31) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /sensitive (+31) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek feel free to improve on that btw ^^^
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tantek just surprised we didn't have it defined, and figured that example was sufficiently neutral / inoffensive to document
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gRegorLove Uh oh, Woodwind 500 error trying to subscribe to the instagram-atom.appspot.com generated feed
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gRegorLove issue filed: https://github.com/kylewm/woodwind/issues/75
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Loqi [gRegorLove] #75 HTTP 500 error when subscribing
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aaronpk whoa mine got a 500 error too
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aaronpk hm local xray can parse it just fine
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aaronpk "just fine"
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aaronpk it seems i'm not deduping the name vs content on that feed
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loqi.me edited /sensitive_material (+29) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /NIPSA (+25) "tantek added "[[sensitive material]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronpk snarfed: is there any reason you aren't setting the "url" of the author of those items, and just "uri" instead?
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www.boffosocko.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+168) "Jeremy Keith video for Building Blocks of the IndieWeb" (view diff)
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snarfed looking
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snarfed whee, quarterly reminder that http://atomenabled.org/ got compromised and then expired
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk does woodwind run on appengine?
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snarfed no
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tantek whoa wat
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tantek re: atomenabled
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tantek what is atomenabled
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "atomenabled" yet. Would you like to create it?
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snarfed long time ago :(
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snarfed aaronpk: maybe i don't understand the question. the atom spec says author has uri, but not url. maybe i'm missing something? https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-3.2
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tantek snarfed, care to document that ^^^ as a another site death? obv relevant to this community
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aaronpk oh huh
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aaronpk fair enough. I will update xray then
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tantek snarfed, atom spec was written when it was still trendy to say "uri" instead of URL
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tantek modern use of "URL" is a replacement for "uri"
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tantek as a term
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tantek (and vocab)
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aaronpk that doesn't change the fact that most things producing and consuming atom will be using "uri"
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tantek maybe I'm missing the context here
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tantek is XRay reading an Atom feed file directly?
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aaronpk yes
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snarfed tantek: we discussed and maybe documented it here a while back when it happened...not sure it's the same class as other sites on https://indieweb.org/death ? it was just a small static site. e.g. portablecontacts.net, ostatus.org and .net, etc have all died similarly
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aaronpk omg the google developer console is so convoluted
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aaronpk how do I get in lol
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snarfed eh it's ok once you learn it. just a really big product suite. AWS is similar
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tantek snarfed, worth it since those were all related prior communities
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aaronpk there we go. there appear to be two? and one is missing most things
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aaronpk took a few tries of googling "google developer console"
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tantek what is Google Developer Console
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Developer Console" yet. Would you like to create it?
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snarfed but the sites weren't the communities, unlike everything else on /deaths
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snarfed still, happy to add them, but i don't have dates
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tantek snarfed, ok to add without dates, or even approx dates!
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tantek at least activitystrea.ms is still up!
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tantek snarfed, also worth it because for a while I think they were the canonical locations of those specs
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tantek which means they got cited in other (versioned/dead) specs that are not being updated
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tantek if they "weren't the communities" perhaps that indicates a vulnerability, as in don't put specs where the community isn't
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tantek aaronpk if you define it (GDC) then indieweb will be a helpful top result for google developer console
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snarfed looks like gradual decline in 2016, dead in 2017. https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/?q=atomenabled.org
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tantek also if we can discover/document cause of being compromised then death
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tantek then perhaps we can plan for preventing the same
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aaronpk oh what "libxml_disable_entity_loader() has been disabled for security reasons" from appengine
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tantek also perhaps a lesson in "don't just create a new domain for every new project/spec"
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aaronpk looks around nervously
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tantek lol
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aaronpk micropub.net webmention.net indieauth.net
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aaronpk tho oauth.net is going swimmingly
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tantek aaronpk maybe you can resurrect the others!
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aaronpk which others?
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tantek the dead ones above
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aaronpk are they expired and not parked?
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tantek :shrug:
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aaronpk nah all parked sadly
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snarfed.org edited /site-deaths (+529) "/* 2017 */ atomenabled.org" (view diff)
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snarfed yeah "don't just create a new domain for every new project/spec" is exactly why i didn't forever for granary
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snarfed ah well
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aaronpk heh
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gRegorLove What made you switch granaray to .io?
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snarfed.org edited /Atom (+25) "RIP atomenabled.org" (view diff)
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snarfed gRegorLove: shame :P
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gRegorLove hehe
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tantek public even
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tantek https://twitter.com/FJdeKermadec/status/934315906490159104
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@FJdeKermadec Your enlightened thought of the morning: if you position yourself as a leader of the #IndieWeb and #MicroBlogging movements, maybe the URL of your #RSS Feed should not contain the words “http://something-demo.appspot.com” in lieu of your blog’s actual domain? ? (twitter.com/_/status/934315906490159104)
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tantek miklb++ for well written replies on that
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Loqi miklb has 11 karma in this channel (56 overall)
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aaronpk oh you've gotta be kidding, this feed parser library doesn't extract author uri
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+104) "/* atomenabled.org */ last Internet Archive capture" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /site-deaths (+188) "/* Unknown Year */ portablecontacts.net, oauth.net/org" (view diff)
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aaronpk I need a public atom feed example that sets author info per item
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aaronpk I can only find RSS examples
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[miklb] check mine?
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tantek what is atomenabled
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "atomenabled" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is portablecontacts
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Loqi Portable Contacts (often abbreviated as PoCo) is/was a proposed 2008 specification for exchange of contact info that uses a one-off JSON format https://indieweb.org/PortableContacts
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tantek what is poco
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Loqi Portable Contacts (often abbreviated as PoCo) is/was a proposed 2008 specification for exchange of contact info that uses a one-off JSON format https://indieweb.org/PoCo
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aaronpk miklb++ thanks at least there's an <author> in each entry even if it's the same
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Loqi miklb has 12 karma in this channel (57 overall)
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[miklb] oh, yeah, I thought you just needed the element defined. I’m definitely the only author ?
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aaronpk oof their tests don't even have an author uri element
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aaronpk forks picoFeed ?
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tantek.com edited /code-of-conduct (+151) "/* Respect */ link to an example" (view diff)
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aaronpk I hope they accept this PR
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tantek what is picofeed
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Loqi picoFeed is a PHP library to parse and write feeds, used in Miniflux https://indieweb.org/picoFeed
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tantek neat