#dev 2017-12-03

2017-12-03 UTC
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aaronparecki.com edited /BrewPubSubHubbub (+27) "lulz" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+92) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /wiki/backup (+0) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /wiki/backup (+85) "update with git instructions" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /wiki/backup () "(-1121)" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /MediaWiki_upgrade (+157) "/* Plugins */" (view diff)
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GWG Anyone ever had a look at the autocomplete attribute in forms?
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loqi.me edited /accessibility (+64) "Zegnat added "https://24ways.org/2017/wcag-for-people-who-havent-read-them/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Hm, svgur.com is costing me ~ $25/mo now. I wonder if it's worth profiling it a bit
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Zegnat profiling?
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Zegnat Do you have a split on that price, [kevinmarks]? I.e. storage vs bandwidth?
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dgold1 has anyone documented use of aaronpk's xray to parse tweets?
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sknebel dgold1: do you have a question/issue?
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dgold1 sknebel: I don't understand the documentation re passing auth credentials
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dgold1 I have auth credentials (api key, secret, token, token secret) but I don't understand how xray should be provided with them
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sknebel justt add them as additional request paraemters
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sknebel or do you mean when using it as a library
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sknebel ?
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sknebel then i'D think add them to the extra parameter at the end
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dgold1 yes, I was using as a library
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dgold1 I hadn't made the connexion between additional parameters and the example given with the 'timeout'
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dgold1 I was trying to pass it at the formulation stage $xray = new( &c
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dgold1 now, its all good
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GWG Morning all
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sknebel morning GWG
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GWG What is going on?
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sknebel not much. first snow day here!
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GWG Fun
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+99) "micropub article" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+64) "/* to do */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /wiki/backup (+50) "/* git */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /wiki/backup (-33) "/* git */ update git info" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /generations (+25) "/* Generation 1 */" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /generations (-5) "/* Generation 1 */" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /generations (+2) "/* Generation 1 */" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /User:Islandinthenet.com (+67) (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] @dgold1 send a PR with an example of the usage that confused you?
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raretrack.uk edited /generations (+19) "/* Generation 2 */ Added myself as a G2" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /generations (-22) "/* Generation 1 */" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /generations (+101) "/* Generation 1 / Generation 2 */" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /generations (+29) "/* Generation 1 / Generation 2 */" (view diff)
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islandinthenet.com edited /generations (+33) "/* Generation 1 / Generation 2 */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com () "(-580) remove wiki update section" (view diff)
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aaronpk yay
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (-14) "location" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Minor edits show up now, not sure if that's intentional. ^
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aaronpk hm no
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loqi.me created /test_edit (+61) "prompted by aaronpk and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Kajatest (+95) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by sknebel" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /BrewPubSubHubbub (+345) "brainstorming, BrewPubSub for short?, feature request: sandwiches (like sub style)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /100DaysOfIndieWeb (+838) "Brainstorming / noting other durations with real world examples, 30 days, 24 days" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-13) "tweaks for Vector theme update" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-52) "new vector styling is too narrow to spell out Homebrew Website Club :(" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Getting_Started (+4) "https indiewebify.me links" (view diff)
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[manton] With Micropub, is there a recommended way to post to different web sites the user has access to? I was thinking maybe a client could pass the `url` parameter, similar to how it's used for updating a post (except it would just be the domain name).
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aaronpk hm at the same micropub endpoint? interesting
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[kevinmarks] You mean posse out?
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aaronpk no i️ dont think so
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[kevinmarks] There is the syndication query and specify model
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[manton] Not POSSE, I just mean creating a regular post. Micro.blog is kind of unique maybe in that a single user account can have multiple web sites.
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[kevinmarks] (though that seems to have stopped working between quill and my hosted known)
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[manton] And once you're authenticated, you could post to any of them. I could create something private but maybe using `url` or another part of Micropub makes sense.
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aaronpk I dont think url is right for that
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[kevinmarks] Ah, interesting.
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[kevinmarks] Using silo.pub for posse is a bit like that
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[kevinmarks] The syndication UI makes a kind of sense for it
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[kevinmarks] Seems odd that silos get privileged there
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aaronpk you could start with an experimental mp- property the way i've been experimenting with the visibility property
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: syndication doesn't prefer silos, but it does mean syndication
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[kevinmarks] If whichever account you auth with gave the syndication options, then you would get the toggles
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tantek "destination"?
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aaronpk you *could* use the syndication mechanism to choose which site to post to but that would be overloading the term
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tantek I think Zegnat recently posted a screenshots where FB asked him to pick a destination after he wrote a post, but before he could publish it
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[manton] Maybe something like mp-publish-to? Or destination, yeah, that works too.
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aaronpk destination sounds reasonable
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tantek can't remember which channel that FB "Destination" screenshots was in, or maybe it was in -chat ?
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tantek what is destination
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "destination" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[kevinmarks] The "my site primary, silos secondary" makes sense if you only have one primary.
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aaronpk i've set up syndication targets that are other micropub sites
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aaronpk but it does mean it's posted to my site first
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[manton] Syndication does imply to me it's an extra copy, not the primary version you're posting.
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aaronpk yep
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tantek indeed
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aaronpk also its likely that any syndication ui will let you choose multiple
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aaronpk whereas "destination" implies a ui that lets you choose only one
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aaronpk so that's a good reason to have a separate thing in the spec for it
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[kevinmarks] Right, but in practice I'm thinking "which audiences am I sharing with?"
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[kevinmarks] When I'm writing longform I end up sending a note via quill to point to it because I get the syndicate UI there to share it to multiple places.
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aaronpk [manton]: id add a UI element to quill to Quill to support this, happy to brainstorm on it
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[kevinmarks] There's a kind of micropub multiplexing here.
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[manton] So, maybe just adding an mp-destination=example.com is the way to start? And then we'll see if it adds any confusion with url and syndicate-to.
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aaronpk i'd suggest adding it to the config query as well so the client can populate the ui
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[manton] To really mirror syndicate-to, there should probably be a way to query for destinations.
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[manton] Yep.
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aaronpk if you want to take a stab at a first pass you can add a section to micropub extensions about it
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[manton] Sure. I've been meaning to look at this for a while, so I'll experiment and add something to the extensions page.
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[kevinmarks] I still think that syndicate-to and destinations are the same thing in the user's mental model.
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aaronpk im about to encounter this situation myself soon so i'm interested in solving it
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: no i really think they're different things
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[manton] I think they're different things, but I also think it will be confusing to some users. For example, Micro.blog can post to Twitter from your blog, and some users expect that their tweets will also go back to their blog after they've configured this. Just a lot of places to be confused if 2 things look similar.
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[kevinmarks] I think they're different for gen 1, but you're going to confuse the rest.
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[manton] If syndicate-to was called something like publish-to, I think it'd be easier to blur the lines here. But "syndication" has a very specific meaning (to me, at least).
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[kevinmarks] I also think that making them more fungible will help migrate nondevs
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aaronpk this sounds like what tweetdeck and buffer have
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[kevinmarks] Yes, but rss means something to you too.
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aaronpk which is a power user feature but not gen 1
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[manton] kevinmarks Yeah, definitely. I'm concerned about making things more complicated for people. (Although most users will never look at the API anyway.)
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[manton] Just to be clear kevinmarks, you think you should be able to pass a syndicate-to of a blog address and send the post there and nowhere else?
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[kevinmarks] I'm thinking about UI mainly
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[manton] From the UI, I think they are separate things. I'd want to say "send this post to this blog" _and_ "also send it to Twitter and Facebook". The first choice is radio buttons, the second choice is checkboxes or similar.
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aaronpk right that's what I was getting at. I think it's important to keep the "syndication" concept separate meaning a copy
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[kevinmarks] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/i-see-syndication-ui-as-audience-selection
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] I see syndication UI as audience selection http://known.kevinmarks.com/file/31366a275d11542d4898432bb1d3e8b9/thumb.png
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aaronpk sure if you use it for that
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[kevinmarks] So I can have several Facebook or twitter accounts here, but only one indieweb one
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[kevinmarks] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/i-see-syndication-ui-as-audience-selection-2-and-it
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] I see syndication UI as audience selection (2) and it is consistent between micropub tools http://known.kevinmarks.com/file/0f6ed4f199de014206ce0db52d82a326/thumb.png
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[kevinmarks] You could build a micropub multiplexer that gave you check boxes for all of them, and used silo.pub for the silos.
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aaronpk that's basically what my site does
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aaronpk all my syndication targets are actually micropub endpoints and it doesn't matter whether they correspond to a silo or an indie web site, they all work the same
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[kevinmarks] Right. Except that you have a strong idea of your primary,as you have your domain.
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aaronpk well soon I will ben wanting to post to multiple :)
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[kevinmarks] But if I start using indieweb tools it becomes a peer of the indieweb sites I can post at.
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[kevinmarks] Now, imagine that I treat my twitter account as my primary.
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[kevinmarks] Or my Facebook account.
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[kevinmarks] I think that is a clearer idea for gen 3+
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aaronpk in all cases you need a strong concept of identity regardless of where the content goes
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[kevinmarks] And probably for gen 2
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[kevinmarks] People already distinguish their silo accounts, and indeed their multiple silo accounts
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[kevinmarks] As in "horny on main"
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[kevinmarks] Historically, this was done by using different specialised silos
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[kevinmarks] Now it's alts on your preferred silo
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[kevinmarks] 10 years ago I used to say "you probably don't want to connect your suicide girls account to your LinkedIn", now it's "you don't want to connect your 2 Facebook accounts"
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manton.org edited /Micropub-extensions (+362) "Added mp-destination." (view diff)
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tantek re: "imagine that I treat my twitter account as my primary" no. silo as primary is certainly not indieweb
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tantek not for gen 1,2,3, or 4
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tantek the point is to provide something for gen 1-4 so they don't have to depend on (or even *want*) Twitter/FB/ or other silo as primary
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[kevinmarks] I know that is how *we*look at it, tantek