#dev 2017-12-23

2017-12-23 UTC
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tantek this is a great article on introducing / explaining POSSE: https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/11/medium-is-only-an-edge-server-of-your-posse-cdn-your-own-blog-is-the-origin.html
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Loqi [remouk] remouk avatar remouk Je suis en tout point d’accord avec ton article.:) Je m...
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tantek wat
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tantek checks for WordPress
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tantek nope jekyll
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tantek hmm
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tantek POSSE << 2017-11-09 Nicolas Hoizey: [https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/11/medium-is-only-an-edge-server-of-your-posse-cdn-your-own-blog-is-the-origin.html Medium is only an edge server of your POSSE CDN, your own blog is the origin]
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-11-09 Nicolas Hoizey: [https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/11/medium-is-only-an-edge-server-of-your-posse-cdn-your-own-blog-is-the-origin.html Medium is only an edge server of your POSSE CDN, your own blog is the origin]" to the "See Also" section of /POSSE
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loqi.me edited /POSSE (+224) "tantek added "2017-11-09 Nicolas Hoizey: [https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/11/medium-is-only-an-edge-server-of-your-posse-cdn-your-own-blog-is-the-origin.html Medium is only an edge server of your POSSE CDN, your own blog is the origin]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi [remouk] remouk avatar remouk Je suis en tout point d’accord avec ton article.:) Je m...
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loqi.me created /FBM (+31) "prompted by gRegorLove and redirect added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Master_Algorithm (+31) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Facebook_Master_Algorithm (+165) "tantek added "2017-12-18 @Hellchick thread: [https://twitter.com/Hellchick/status/942863353403150336 … the story of my friend who died, and I didn't know because algorithms.]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Jan_1_commitments (+35) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /newwwyear (+35) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek love this thread https://twitter.com/steveivy/status/943574103738392577
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@steveivy any #indieweb folks want to help me test my webmention linkup (using webmention.io for my static jekyll site) try sending a mention for this post... https://www.monkinetic.blog/diso-after-10-years.html (twitter.com/_/status/943574103738392577)
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tantek wait a minute, what is Steve Ivy using that supports showing photo replies?!? https://www.monkinetic.blog/diso-after-10-years.html
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tantek (first comment from kevinmarks is a webmention photo reply)
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tantek what is a photo reply
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Loqi photo reply is a reply with a photo, thus also a photo post that is in-reply-to another post https://indieweb.org/photo_reply
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KartikPrabhu tantek: maybe simply using the HTML of the posts e-content?
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tantek.com edited /photo_reply (+243) "indieweb examples, add kevinmarks, subhead people" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I have no idea which is why I'm asking
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tantek also note we only have TWO actual examples of photo reply posts
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tantek https://indieweb.org/photo_reply#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek so that's a pretty big deal to see that second one (from KevinMarks) and see it displayed properly!
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tantek.com edited /photo_reply (+17) "kevinmarks since 2017-12-22" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu wonders if he inadvertantly supports photo replies if the image is in the e-content
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aaronpk He's rendering the JSON from webmention.io afaik
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gRegorLove kylewm displays them: https://kylewm.com/2015/06/that-thing-where-you-re-lecturing-family-members
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Loqi [Kyle Mahan] That thing where you’re lecturing family members on Facebook with odious and incorrect opinions… about datetime formatting.
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gRegorLove and probably sent them at some point
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tantek 2018-01-01-commitments << https://twitter.com/hashtag/newwwyear
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Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/hashtag/newwwyear" to the "See Also" section of /2018-01-01-commitments
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KartikPrabhu if anyone has photo posting reply to this for testing https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/support-photo-replies
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Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] Kartik Prabhu Do I support photo replies? posted at 20:40 on 22 Dec 2017 (-0500) tagged with: ...
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tantek KevinMarks: ^^^
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gRegorLove KartikPrabhu: Done https://gregorlove.com/2017/12/han-shrug/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] shrug https://gregorlove.com/site/assets/files/4840/han-shrug.gif
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gRegorLove Dat implicit p-name on your post, heh
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gRegorLove Looks like you do support it :)
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KartikPrabhu yup! https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/support-photo-replies#response-replies
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] gRegor Morrill replied on gregorlove.com with shrug posted at 20:43 on ...
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KartikPrabhu siccess
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KartikPrabhu should fix that p-name
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KartikPrabhu tantek: there you go another example: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/support-photo-replies#response-replies
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] gRegor Morrill replied on gregorlove.com with shrug posted at 20:43 on ...
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KartikPrabhu judas priest!
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gRegorLove Haha
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Loqi rofl
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gregorlove.com edited /photo_reply (+124) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu i reshuffled my templates and messed something up. Good thing to fix over Christmas weekend
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KartikPrabhu also should use timezone of the response and not my own
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tantek gRegorLove++ well played
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Loqi gregorlove has 37 karma in this channel (198 overall)
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GWG Hello all
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gregorlove.com edited /photo_reply (+99) "/* gRegor Morrill */ earlier tweet reply example" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Evening, GWG
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GWG Anyone doing anything Indieweb this weekend or is everyone preparing for some events?
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aaronpk Why didn't my reply work?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: you sent a photo reply to me?
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aaronpk I did
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: looks like it didn't find any content so it is not dispaying it
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aaronpk There is no content just a photo
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KartikPrabhu interesting!
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KartikPrabhu I wonder what messed up. Your response is in my database but it didn't find any content
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: aah! I am not looking explicitly for u-photo, just e-content :P
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aaronpk Oh was gRegorLove's photo in the content?
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KartikPrabhu yup
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KartikPrabhu should a photo post not have e-content just a u-photo?
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aaronpk That is my understanding
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loqi.me created /traction (+396) "prompted by aaronpk and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu hmmm
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aaronpk Unless there is also text in the post of course
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KartikPrabhu the photo is also content though
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KartikPrabhu no text content
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aaronpk Duplicate photos inside the content and as the photo property is the worst part of trying to parse ppls content
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KartikPrabhu hmmm yeah that does look like trouble
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tantek the "worst"?
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gRegorLove_ This is the discussion that comes up every so often, photo vs photo w/ note
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tantek lol
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gRegorLove_ Er, note w/ photo
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aaronpk It's really hacky to make it work well. There's a bug in my code right now where my expanded likes have double photos for some people now
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gRegorLove_ There's some archived discussion in one of the brainstorming sections on the wiki
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aaronpk And I remember being super frustrated with this when building Monocle v1 too
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gRegorLove_ I'm not opposed to e-content-less for photos, my setup just isn't quite that flexible yet.
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KartikPrabhu so for a photo + text, the photo should be u-photo but only the text should be e-content?
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gRegorLove_ So I continue with u-photo inside e-content, though usually I have text.
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove_: yeah same here
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KartikPrabhu should really switch responses to mf2 storage. WOuld be much easier that way
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aaronpk Parsing that gracefully means you have to dig into the html content, find any img Tags with a matching url of a photo, remove the tag, then collapse anything like surrounding <p> tags
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aaronpk Yuck yuck
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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aaronpk I use mf2 so that I don't have to deal with html parsing
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aaronpk So yeah pretty much "the worst"
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tantek checks his latest post
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aaronpk Now I'm not opposed to img tags in content in general, it just means those look more like full blog posts rather than photo posts
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tantek aaronpk - does it help if you limit it to images that are before any text content?
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tantek because IMO that's a key difference between photo posts are "full blog posts" aka articles
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gRegorLove Good question, KartikPrabhu. I'm wondering that too.
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aaronpk No I don't want to have to open up an html parser at all
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gRegorLove For photo + caption, is only the caption text in e-content?
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tantek aaronpk fair
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tantek presumably same problem with /video and /audio ?
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aaronpk Yep just way less common right now
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tantek ok
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gRegorLove From /photo#Discussion was reminded of https://gist.github.com/mko/f05e8cb0d2423f6deaa7
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gRegorLove suggesting p-summary p-name for caption text instead of e-content
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gRegorLove Maybe I'll tweak my photo posts this weekend
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tantek.com edited /photo (+743) "/* Brainstorming */ How to markup caption" (view diff)
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gRegorLove tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 19 karma in this channel (409 overall)
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tantek gRegorLove: except that by now there are tons of photo posts out there, so we do really need to start with documenting *how* they are marking up caption
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tantek I feel there is too little information to find a reasonable / workable solution to the problem(s) aaronpk is pointing out
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tantek thanks
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tantek I'm going to go focus on thinking about something else though
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tantek which is following on from https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-12-20/1513728792339000
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Loqi [tantek] so yes, undo post/update/delete etc. with or without JS
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tantek and to add to that, offline support so that I'm *never* waiting on any kind of network connection just to *write* a post <-- major flaw of pretty much every "social media" / post authoring "app" / site besides email apps
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tantek so that is, write post, publish, undo/update/delete etc. with or without JS, with 100% offline support if local JS is working, else as much offline support as browser will allow (without JS)
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tantek you should never lose content because you pressed "return" or "post" and you lost a network connection, yet this happens in nearly every "app"
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tantek and that's native "apps", which supposedly *can* work offline, but few bother with it
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tantek interesting, no comments on https://www.futurehosting.com/blog/webmentions-pingbacks-for-the-modern-web/
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tantek via https://twitter.com/fhsales/status/943533986487336961
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@fhsales Webmentions are a modern implementation: what Pingbacks might have been had they been created today. http://bit.ly/2BECCDf (twitter.com/_/status/943533986487336961)
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gregorlove.com edited /photo (+718) "/* How to markup caption */ +my example and thoughts" (view diff)
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tantek another thought, putting images inside the e-content of a photo post should be just fine, because the caption is just the p-content (which drops all the images)
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tantek the "value" rather than the "HTML" of the "content" property
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tantek which should be fine for a /note or /photo post
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aaronpk As long as the alt text doesn't end up in the p-content
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aaronpk that might work
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tantek correct, it should not
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tantek and *if* you're using the "HTML" of the "content" anyway in some other place (like you're displaying a photo comment, or you're displaying the /note with embedded markup), then you need to be doing your own HTML sanitization anyway
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aaronpk Tho formatting and links for notes is also nice
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tantek typical HTML sanitizers do (should) have options for filtering out additional elements
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aaronpk Interesting point
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tantek thus if you're displaying the HTML of a photo post from somewhere else, you should be able to say hey, drop any img tags in the HTML because I already know the ones I care about
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tantek just by passing a param to your HTML sanitizer
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tantek which is then doing all the "look in the HTML" work
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tantek which was the "worst problem" you mentioned
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aaronpk I've encapsulated all of that sanitization in XRay, so I could see adding this step too
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aaronpk as long as it was well documented ;-)
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tantek yes that was my brainstorm ^^^
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tantek I'll document it as a brainstorm on the wiki if I get at least *some* validation it isn't completely unworkable
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tantek since I haven't coded it myself
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tantek some *external validation that is
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tantek and if it doesn't get any traction, well then that's ok too, I can try again later when it's a selfdogfood need ;)
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aaronpk "Drop any" img tags isn't quite right, but drop img tags that match any photo url
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aaronpk I'm also thinking about the reader use case not just photo replies
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tantek a photo note with other images?
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tantek right I am too
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aaronpk I guess I can't really think of a good way to display a photo post that also has additional images so maybe that doesn't matter
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tantek hence " (like you're displaying a photo comment, or you're displaying the /note with embedded markup)"
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tantek exactly, I'd say drop all the images
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tantek in the e-content for a photo post, because your existing HTML sanitizer should make that easy
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tantek without having to code extra support for properties etc.
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aaronpk So basically the sanitizer logic is if there is a photo property then drop all img tags from the html?
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KartikPrabhu that is weird. So if gRegorLove had not used u-photo I should have dropped it from his response?
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tantek close
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tantek if it is a photo post
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aaronpk I can easily add img tags to the blacklist of tags
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tantek which you can determine via PTD
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tantek which does use u-photo as part of the algorithm
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: yes that would make his post work right cause the consumer would be using the photo property to get the image
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I think you said the reverse
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aaronpk Oh whoops yeah
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KartikPrabhu but why drop all the images?
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tantek because you already know the image that matters for the post
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tantek image(s)*
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aaronpk If he did not include u-photo then it wouldn't drop the images from the content
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tantek exactly
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KartikPrabhu so all images that are not u-photo are considered "not relevant" to the reply?
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KartikPrabhu weird
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aaronpk Have any examples where that wouldn't work?
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gRegorLove img alt does get parsed into the content.value
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gRegorLove !mf2 https://gregorlove.com/2017/12/han-shrug/
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Kaja https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2F2017%2F12%2Fhan-shrug%2F
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] shrug https://gregorlove.com/site/assets/files/4840/han-shrug.gif
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KartikPrabhu I just don't get the logic for dropping other images
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tantek less code to write = more reliable
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tantek KartikPrabhu: as noted above, existing HTML sanitizers already allow you a list of additional elements to drop
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tantek so you can just use that feature instead of being pickier
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: I am struggling to think of an example where someone would both set the u-photo and then also include additional images
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tantek never seen any
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tantek KartikPrabhu: the logic is, ignore theoretical examples that no one has seen ever
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aaronpk Either set u-photo on all the images because it's a multi-photo post, or set it on none because it's a blog post with inline images
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tantek yep
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tantek same logic likely works with audio and video too
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tantek (also not sure why I didn't think of this "simple" solution the dozen other times we had this discussion)
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aaronpk I know right?
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tantek maybe it's one of those examples of having to "step away from the problem" for a while
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aaronpk Thats also how I feel about manton's great simple Micropub update syntax
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tantek ooh I think I saw something about that but what are the details? URL?
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/Micropub-brainstorming#Simple_Update_Syntax
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tantek wow this is like a 1.1 feature then
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tantek so wait, simple updates without JSON? (form encoded params only?) nice
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aaronpk Yep! Limited functionality but that's okay!
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tantek is that the only "new" action= param value?
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aaronpk It's only new for form encoded yeah
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tantek and shouldn't that be "content=" to match the Minimal Example? https://indieweb.org/Micropub#Minimal_Example
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tantek rather than name= ?
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aaronpk Sure
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tantek so wait, both the "action" param is new and it can only take "update"? is that right?
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aaronpk action was already used for deletes
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[miklb] what about u-featured?
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tantek hmm not seeing that in https://indieweb.org/Micropub
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tantek action=delete that is
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aaronpk I think that page shrunk, there are examples in the spec
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aaronpk [miklb]: u-featured does not contribute to the photo post type discovery so doesn't affect this conversation
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[miklb] ah, OK
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tantek aaronpk: heh https://indieweb.org/Micropub does not link to the spec anywhere near the top
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tantek I mean presumably https://micropub.net/ :)
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aaronpk Whoops, removed too much apparently
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tantek or rather https://micropub.net/draft/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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tantek aaronpk with the addition of action=update I believe micropub will now support simple CRUD operations 100% via form submissions, no JS/JSON needed
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aaronpk Hm weird there's more on /Micropub than I remember
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aaronpk I thought we had tried to trim that down to remove more of the tech details
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aaronpk maybe that was /Webmention
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tantek probably got part way through it
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aaronpk Yep I like that it would be possible to be consistent, form-encoded for all requests, and JSON in the responses, this comment from Manton was a good reminder
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aaronpk https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-12-22/1513969369691000
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Loqi [[manton]] As for the question about preferring JSON... I don't know. I really like the simplicity of posting without JSON. But you're right that it's not consistent if you're using JSON some places (for responses) and not others. Kind of wish there was only on...
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tantek yeah I kinda blame the SWWG charter
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KartikPrabhu I like the simple form-encoded update
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tantek definitely worth drafting a 1.1
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www.funwhilelost.com edited /Strava (+266) "/* POSSE */" (view diff)
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Zegnat Re photo posts with other images in their content: what about emoji images? I seem to recall people using plugins in e.g. WordPress to have emoji images. Those would not be .u-photo but dropping a winky-face from text could severely affect tone of the message.
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Zegnat Not sure if people are still using images or have all switched to unicode.
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4s3s3M4A.jpg
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aaronpk Hah like old bbforums?
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sknebel that, or just compatibility-layer for emoji
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sknebel or "I want to control the style"-emoji
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aaronpk While technically those are images, they have a very different role than photos
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aaronpk for example they should have a text fallback for screen readers, something like slack's emoji text description or even :-) would be okay
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aaronpk It's also important that those are rendered inline in the text, and not spaced out like you'd see a photo in a paragraph of text
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sknebel but if you delete images (instead of using the alt-text, like e.g. mf2 p-properties would do), you destroy that fallback
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aaronpk What I'm getting at is it seems there should be some sort of explicit handling of those icons regardless of mf2
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sknebel unless I misinterpreted your discussion when reading it earlier
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aaronpk Like if you want to render a post with those in IRC as plaintext, it'd be more appropriate to use the alt text than include a link to the image. Whereas if it's actually a photo, it'd be better to show the link
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sknebel yeah. not sure what the recommendations for markup on those are, if they are followed and if they work as decision tools
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Zegnat I interpreted the earlier discussion like sknebel did. It seemed to suggest to use HTML purifiers to remove all IMG tags on photo posts. That would remove emoji images, was what I was saying.
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Zegnat And if you want to special case those, you are back to needing to look at the HTML yourself
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aaronpk turning HTML into plaintext already loses those emoji images so i'm not sure that is particularly unique to this use case
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Zegnat It doesn’t lose them if you keep their alt attributes, aaronpk. But the discussion seemed to say those should be dropped to in the case of photo posts.
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aaronpk I think this point still stands though https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-12-23/1514038284690100
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Loqi [aaronpk] Like if you want to render a post with those in IRC as plaintext, it'd be more appropriate to use the alt text than include a link to the image. Whereas if it's actually a photo, it'd be better to show the link
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aaronpk in other words, using the alt text of an img is not always the right choice, since in some cases (like in IRC) it makes more sense to use the img URL
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Zegnat Oh, yes, I agree :)
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GWG What is a good example of a scenario where a h-entry would have a summary but no content?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "good example of a scenario where a h-entry would have a summary but no content" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "good example of a scenario where a h-entry would have a summary but no content is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel what is summary?
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Loqi A summary is short text that conveys a post's main point(s), a small representative section, a post excerpt, or a plain text equivalent for kinds of posts like likes and RSVPs that use other properties to convey their meaning https://indieweb.org/summary
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sknebel that says likes might be, not sure if people actually publish them like that now?
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sknebel yes, they do. even our markup examples on /like are like that
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GWG That is what I thought.
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GWG https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#unrecognized-properties - I was looking at this example in the Micropub spec
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davidmead gwg - getting a slew of errors from /nfs/c03/h05/mnt/56448/domains/davidjohnmead.com/html/blog/wp-content/plugins/indieweb/includes/class-hcard-user.php preventing me logging in to my site. any ideas? Seems to be about simple-icons.php
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GWG davidmead: That was fixed, I thought.
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GWG I initially uploaded a version that didn't include that file, and pfefferle pushed the extra file.
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GWG Moving to -wordpress
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davidmead must’ve happend between me updating and loggin out. now i can’t log in to get the latest
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GWG It was only messed up for a few hours 8 days ago
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[eddie] I know granary.io can provide me a mf2 timeline stream from twitter. Was there a different service that allows me to translate a user’s feed of posts to mf2?
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aaronpk granary.io does a bunch of different conversions
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[eddie] Ahh okay. Hmm I tried replacing the @me with the user’s username but that didn’t seem to work.
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aaronpk go back to the home page and click the twitter button, then it gives you a form to choose various things
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GWG aaronpk: Why does OYS not have a summary field for servers that don't know what a checkin is?
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aaronpk I did the form-encoded vs JSON for fallback instead
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aaronpk if your server doesn't know what a checkin is, then you can use the form-encoded option to post it as a regular text note
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Zegnat GWG: “What is a good example of a scenario where a h-entry would have a summary but no content?” - inside a feed perhaps? E.g. a “read more” feed structure. The actual post content will be on the permalink page.
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[eddie] Image uploaded from iOS https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F8J68FWLQ/image_uploaded_from_ios.jpg?pub_secret=48c96c16e2&name=Image uploaded from iOS.jpg
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[eddie] Am I missing available fields in granary? I only get a drop down for “group” (all, self, friends) and the format (html, etc)? The / me / is in essence what I need to be able to change to a twitter username. But the interface doesn’t let me and when I try to manipulate the url scheme it doesn’t show anything different
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[eddie] I’m not sure if it’s me or if the granary site is locked down to only showing the logged in user’s feed
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aaronpk try the twitter user's ID instead of their username https://github.com/snarfed/granary#using
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Loqi [snarfed] granary: The social web translator.
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aaronpk "USER_ID is a source-specific id or @me for the authenticated user"
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snarfed :/ i should make username work too. feel free to file an issue
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[eddie] Ohhh twitter as separate user ids?
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snarfed yup. not really user visible, just in the API
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[eddie] Gotcha 👍 Thanks aaronpk and snarfed. I’ll try that out
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[eddie] Also issue filed
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[kevinmarks] @gwg my homepage on kevinmarks.com has a fair few summary without content posts, as they're links to the dull text.
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[kevinmarks] *full* text (dullness is in the eye of the beholder)
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aaronparecki.com edited /style-guide (+208) (view diff)
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GWG So, aaronpk is using p3k-food and p3k-type and cleverdevil is using h-food.
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GWG Makes things confusing there
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jjuran I’m sure there’s a devil’s food joke in there somewhere.
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aaronpk food is very much still experimental, don't worry too much about it
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GWG aaronpk: All my food is experimental
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gregorlove.com edited /OkCupid (+1030) "/* Criticism */ === Requiring first name ===" (view diff)
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Zegnat tries to run XRay. Instantly runs into fatal error. Of course.
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aaronpk oh noes
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Zegnat PR filed already.
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aaronpk nice
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GWG Are all homepage mentions tags and when aren't they?
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KartikPrabhu what are person tags?
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Loqi A person tag (AKA people tag) is a person mention that is also a tag on a post that refers to a specific person by URL rather than just a word or phrase, and is done as an explicit tagging action by the user, beyond just mentioning a person via hyperlink / h-card / or @-name, autocompleted or not https://indieweb.org/person_tags
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KartikPrabhu what is person-tag?
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Loqi A person tag (AKA people tag) is a person mention that is also a tag on a post that refers to a specific person by URL rather than just a word or phrase, and is done as an explicit tagging action by the user, beyond just mentioning a person via hyperlink / h-card / or @-name, autocompleted or not https://indieweb.org/person-tag
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sknebel tags are u-category
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KartikPrabhu ^GWG
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gRegorLove It could just be a mention, like "<a href="https://david.shanske.com/" class="h-card">David</a> wrote about . . ."
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GWG I am trying to figure out if there is a scenario where mentioning my domain is not a person tag? Not everyone will remember the h-card, especially non mf2 friendly types
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aaronpk yes it could just be a mention
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aaronpk a person-tag is a special case of a mention
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KartikPrabhu yes, a simple link is not a person tag
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KartikPrabhu even with no h-card
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KartikPrabhu in fact default is a mention
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GWG Trying to figure out how to mark up webmentions, mostly from aaronpk and chrisaldrich
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KartikPrabhu yes ^
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gRegorLove GWG: The h-card in my example doesn't matter.
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gRegorLove Sorry, should have written a better minimal example.
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gRegorLove If a wm source has in-reply-to my URL, then I show "replied to..." with the comment text. Otherwise it just defaults to "mentioned this" with no text from the source.
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gRegorLove If I showed my homepage webmentions anywhere, I'd probably change the latter to "mentioned you", but that's just hypothetical
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GWG Problem
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GWG That's the probk I am trying to solve
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sknebel category: tagged you. everything else: mentioned you. (maybe in-reply-to: "sent you a message", that's how we used it for private webmentions, but I haven't seen it elsewhere)
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GWG Maybe I need to identify these more granularly to figure out my uses
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GWG 1. Stranger mentioned my twitter username in a post and it was backfed by Bridgy. Coincidentally mixing me up with my cousin.
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GWG 2. chrisaldrich tried to poke me.
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GWG 4. aaronpk tagged me expressly in multiple posts in Austin when we were together.
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GWG 3. chrisaldrich referenced me in reference to my WordPress plugins
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GWG I'm reasonably certain I need to definitely work on handling #4. I'm trying to figure out #3(which happens a lot), and #1(backfeed)
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Zegnat 1 and 3 sound like the same use-case. A post contains your name, but just because they are mentioning you by name/username/URL. Those are the default usecase of a mention.
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Zegnat 2 and 4 are explicit. Though I haven’t seen any “pokes” yet, I can see those working as messages so your domain will be in-reply-to. 4 would be an example of a person tag, so defined by there being a u-category on the link.
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Zegnat what is poke?
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Loqi Poke (or alternately tap, nudge, yo, hi, hello, ping, wink, flirt, pat, wave, etc.) is a relatively common social feature that ostensibly serves as a method to say hello, attract some one's attention, annoy them, or say "I'm thinking about you" https://indieweb.org/poke
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Zegnat Ah, yeah, so pokes are in-reply-to :)
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sknebel or u-poke-of
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GWG Zegnat: Yes, but 1 and 3, I don't want to use the standard... 'Chris Aldrich mentioned this post in ___' Should it be mentioned 'me' or mentioned the site?
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sknebel guess that depends on the site
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Zegnat Oh, that’s an interesting question.
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sknebel on a personal homepage, it's "me"
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Zegnat I think I am with sknebel... if you identify yourself with example.com, then online for all intents and purposes example.com isn’t a site but is your identity (aka you)
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sknebel but it could also mean "the blog on that page", or the site having the WP plugin installed could not be a personal page, but a blog
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sknebel Zegnat: If I say "https://licit.li is an awesome blog that really needs more posting activity", am I mentioning you?
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Zegnat what is homepage mention?
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Loqi person mention is a homepage webmention sent to a person's homepage https://indieweb.org/homepage_mention
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GWG I can account for that
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Zegnat That’s not mentioning me sknebel. That domain is never used to represent me. It is literally only a blog feed.
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sknebel right. but for GWGs work that's relevant
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Zegnat You are right, will be hard for a plugin to know.
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GWG But WordPress has user accounts.
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GWG And user accounts have a 'user website url' in it
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Zegnat https://indieweb.org/notifications#Design_Options - might have some ideas for names too
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Zegnat This might also be interesting GWG, different types of homepage mentions: https://indieweb.org/homepage_mention#How_to_distinguish_person_mentions
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Zegnat You could add brainstorm to that page :)
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aaronpk I don't see a representative h-card on https://licit.li so that's how the software can know it's not mentioning a person
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GWG aaronpk: Bingo.
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GWG So, a link to a URL with a representative h-card is a person mention?
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GWG I'm back to, is there an exception?
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aaronpk mention is the default, person-tag is the special one if that link has a u-category
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KartikPrabhu also, there is no need to write code for all possible edge cases and exceptions in the first try
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Agreed on that point
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GWG I'm just brainstorming now.
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Zegnat So: a mention of a URL, that isn’t also marked up as a special-case mf2 property, if the URL features a representative h-card, is mentioning a person?
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Zegnat That seems to be the summary.
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aaronpk well it's mentioning whatever the h-card represents, which may not be a person but could also be a venue
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KartikPrabhu right ^
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Zegnat Yes, but GWG is interested in the person (“mentioned you”) vs just a site (“mentioned the site”) if I got that right?
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Zegnat “mentioned you” could still work even if it is a venue, as you are likely to be the venue owner if you are getting the notifications?
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GWG I'm interested in the narrow and broad use case
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Zegnat And if it is marked up with in-reply-to it is a “message” aimed at the person, if it is marked up with u-category the person is explicitly “tagging” the person, and then there is u-invitee when the person is being invited to an event (according to /homepage_mentions). And that covers most.
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GWG I'll chew on that before the PR
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GWG I do have one thing to do
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GWG aaronpk++ for tagging me enough to make me want to deal with it
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Loqi aaronpk has 96 karma in this channel (1511 overall)
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aaronpk hehe
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Zegnat And another XRay caused PR ...
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Zegnat Off to bed now, have a good one~
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