#dev 2018-01-11

2018-01-11 UTC
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leotsem good spot - I'll have a look into the CDN headers to see if there's something weird going on
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gregorlove.com edited /feed_reader (+89) "/* Examples */ +Woodwind" (view diff)
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convolv.es edited /feed_reader (+179) "Add NewsBlur" (view diff)
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gRegorLove what is netnewswire?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "netnewswire" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "netnewswire is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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gregorlove.com edited /feed_reader (-50) "mv Minimal Reader to old list, wiki link NewsBlur" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /feed_reader (+64) "/* Examples */ +Evergreen" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /feed_reader (+224) "/* Examples */ +Reeder, fever, The Old Reader, News Explorer" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorLove++ THANK YOU.
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Loqi gregorlove has 41 karma in this channel (208 overall)
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gRegorLove yw. I think that's all of them, check pages linking to /feed_reader
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gRegorLove *checked
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tantek.com edited /principles (-70) "emojicon" (view diff)
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upon2020.com created /Webm1m (+1626) "initial content based on in-person discussion at HWC SF 2018-01-10" (view diff)
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00dani.me edited /User:00dani.me (-81) "update: pagination works now :o still gotta get most of these other itches scratched though" (view diff)
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www.chrisvogt.me created /User:Www.chrisvogt.me (+66) "Initial page creation — h-card." (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs () "(-521) update from /Events" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /accessibility (+1008) "/* See Also */ Links to Eric Meyer working on the accessibility of his blog design, contains advice that goes for many on the IndieWeb." (view diff)
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tantek !tell snarfed reminder, when was the first indieweb reply federated to a mastodon post (and has anyone done the opposite? federated a mastodon reply to an indieweb post?), and do we have a count of the # of replies bridged to mastodon permalinks? (over time)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar.net uploaded /File:petermolnar.net-tips.png "Tip links displayed on petermolnar.net at the bottom of a tech article. https://indieweb.org/File:petermolnar.net-tips.png"
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petermolnar.net edited /tip (+267) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek petermolnar++ that's a really good way of phrasing the tip and simple UI
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Loqi petermolnar has 6 karma in this channel (50 overall)
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[kevinmarks] Mastodon reply to an indieweb post here https://mastodon.social/users/kevinmarks/updates/23949
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Not having anywhere to put a url in the profile, mastodon can't support distributed verification. http://www.kevinmarks.com/distributed-verify.html
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Zegnat I’d classify that as a mention, not reply, in IndieWeb parlance
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[kevinmarks] It was the one I used to encourage mastodon to have mf2 on the posts
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Zegnat Oh, yes, and the Mastodon post seems to show up on http://www.kevinmarks.com/distributed-verify.html, but it doesn’t have /reply markup yet ;) I was being nitpicky.
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Loqi Distributed Verification 2016-09-22
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[kevinmarks] (I did just resend the webmention so that the mf2 worked, it originally said "unknown")
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snarfed.org edited /Bridgy_Fed (+2180) "lots more details, history" (view diff)
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snarfed.org uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:bridgy fed mastodon post.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:bridgy fed mastodon post.jpg"
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snarfed.org uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:bridgy fed indieweb reply.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:bridgy fed indieweb reply.jpg"
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snarfed.org uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:bridgy fed mastodon reply.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:bridgy fed mastodon reply.png"
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snarfed.org uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:bridgy fed indieweb backfeed.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:bridgy fed indieweb backfeed.jpg"
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snarfed.org edited /Bridgy_Fed (+514) "/* Ryan Barrett */ screenshots" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh no!
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aaronpk switchboard doesn't work with granary because switchboard expects to be able to make HEAD requests
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snarfed aaronpk: easy fix, happy to make granary handle HEADs
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 12 minutes ago: reminder, when was the first indieweb reply federated to a mastodon post (and has anyone done the opposite? federated a mastodon reply to an indieweb post?), and do we have a count of the # of replies bridged to mastodon permalinks? (over time)
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snarfed !tell tantek done! https://indieweb.org/Bridgy_Fed
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk hm, why do I need to include a link to bridgy fed in my post? I thought it was going to find my replies from my atom feed
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snarfed aaronpk: does switchboard need anything specific from the HEAD response?
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snarfed aaronpk: it's just a trigger
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snarfed it doesn't poll your feed and auto federate. you trigger it per post with a wm
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Zegnat HEAD requests must be equal to GET requests according to HTTP spec, IIRC, snarfed. Just without body.
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snarfed Zegnat: yes. i know the spec. in practice there are tradeoffs :P
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aaronpk switchboard does a HEAD request just to double check the topic URL exists, so it expects to get a 2xx response
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snarfed ok!
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aaronpk is late to the party setting up bridgy fed
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snarfed not that late. it's only federated ~50 posts total so far
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snarfed latest 20: https://fed.brid.gy/responses
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aaronpk it *thinks* it federated my reply, but I don't see it on mastodon.social
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snarfed aaronpk: hrmph, sorry about that
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aaronpk can you see what's wrong? the log looks good to me but I dont really know what i'm looking for
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snarfed it is occasionally flaky, seems like sometimes more often for new or initial users. honestly i can't always tell why
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snarfed yup, looking
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snarfed hmm. usually mastodon returns 201 for success, but for yours it returned 204 (no content)
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snarfed similar to https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/5500#issuecomment-339208153
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Loqi [snarfed] thanks for looking, @nightpool! i added `id`s and updated `inReplyTo` and `attributedTo` and now get a 204 instead of 500. great! the reply itself still doesn't show up on the original post, https://mastodon.social/@dgold/98862730409351002 , but t...
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snarfed hmm it's probably because the AS reply i sent doesn't have an author. that's weird. probably a bug. thanks for finding!
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aaronpk my authorship edge case, of course :D
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aaronpk hm now mastodon is caching my profile too much and I can't see if anything is working
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aaronpk lol
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aaronpk it says it's waiting approval for the follow request. does that mean the websub subscription is pending?
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snarfed ugh yeah, profile/post distribution is still a big hand wave in bridgy fed
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snarfed it doesn't really do anything there
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aaronpk oh? It was documented pretty well so I thought it would work :)
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snarfed true, and yet it still often feels unclear and opaque
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/18
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Loqi [snarfed] #18 figure out user and post discovery
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aaronpk ah well. I will wait a month and try again
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snarfed 😂
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snarfed aww not that long hopefully. i'm at least fixing that bug right now
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upon2020.com edited /press-kit (+79) "added myself" (view diff)
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snarfed so mf2 q: the author property is usually an h-card, but not always. e.g. aaronpk's is often just a primitive string, with his url.
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snarfed and it could also be a primitive string with just a name, if e.g. it comes from something like <span class="p-name">...
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snarfed so if it's just a string, and we want to distinguish name vs url, do we need to sniff the value and see if it's a url? any other advice?
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snarfed (er sorry, that example html should have been <span class="p-author">...)
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aaronpk What is authorship?
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Loqi authorship is how to determine who the author(s) of a post are https://indieweb.org/authorship
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snarfed heh ok
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aaronpk My site falls into step 7 lol
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Zegnat “do we need to sniff the value and see if it's a url?” – yes, mf2 does no value types, everything is a string. You need to sniff for URLs.
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aaronpk But it’s all described there
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snarfed right...but i'm not actually implementing the authorship alg. i'm taking a given mf2 object, which may include an author property, and translating it.
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Zegnat You are apparently 7.2, aaronpk ;) https://sturdy-backbone.glitch.me/test?url=https%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2F2018%2F01%2F11%2F5%2F
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snarfed and the mf2 author value may be a full fledged object, or may just be a string
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aaronpk ah yeah I didn't think about the case where the author property is a plain string
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aaronpk to find mine, recognize that it's a URL, then you can look elsewhere on the page for a top-level h-card with the same URL and get the info from there
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snarfed and it is on your post :P !mf2 https://aaronparecki.com/2018/01/11/4/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Test reply for Bridgy Fed
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aaronpk yeah my permalinks have the URL as the "author" property an the h-card is at the bottom of the page (the second mf2 object)
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aaronpk makes more sense when you look at the JSON view https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2F2018%2F01%2F11%2F4%2F
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snarfed right. i may extend this to do full authorship...but right now, it's handled as an isolated translation from mf2 object to AS2, entirely in memory
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aaronpk if you have the mf2 tree in memory you should be able to do the whole authorship algorithm except for the part about fetching the URL
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snarfed true!
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upon2020.com created /Webm1m/PR (+981) "initial list" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webm1m/PR (-3) "Webmention, not Web Mention plz :)" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webm1m (+18) (view diff)
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[keithjgrant] how do y’all ping superfeedr after publishing something? I always have to look it up and I’m never sure it ever worked
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aaronpk I am also never sure if pinging superfeedr works
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aaronpk that's why with switchboard I made it return some info about the publish
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aaronpk at the very least you can just look for a 2xx status code response and that's about as good as it gets with superfeedr
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sknebel subscribe to your own site and check you get notifications? of course that's more external monitoring, not something that respond in-band to an issue
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[keithjgrant] yeah, I just spammed the heck out of Superfeedr... eventually its dashboard showed the pings (it doesn't update immediately). But still not seeing latest post in Feedly
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[keithjgrant] is the hub.url supposed to be the index page url, or the feed (xml) url?
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[keithjgrant] or just the site domain?
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aaronpk the URL that you're publishing
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aaronpk so, feed xml url most likely
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aaronpk unless you're publishing your HTML page of course
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[keithjgrant] i wonder if Feedly is the issue? this is a pain to debug
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aaronpk you can try subscribing on https://websub.rocks to see if your publishing is working
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[keithjgrant] hm. for https://keithjgrant.com/posts, should the 'self' include '/posts' ?
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aaronpk yes
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aaronpk actually /posts/ since you redirect to the trailing slash
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aaronpk try entering that on https://websub.rocks/publisher
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aaronpk you'll notice it subscribes to a "self" url of "https://keithjgrant.com"
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Loqi Keith J. Grant
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aaronpk which means it'll never get a notification unless you tell the hub that you're publishing "https://keithjgrant.com"
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Loqi Keith J. Grant
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[keithjgrant] what about 'self' on the page of an individual post?
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aaronpk you don't need that for websub
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[keithjgrant] okay, that's fixed
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[keithjgrant] websub.rocks/publisher is waiting for notifications. should it get one whenever I ping superfeedr?
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aaronpk yeah
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[keithjgrant] or only after a new post?
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aaronpk oh yeah it'll need a new post for superfeedr to send out the notifications
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aaronpk so if you add a post to that page, then send a publish request with "https://keithjgrant.com/posts/" as the URL, you *should* see the notification
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[keithjgrant] switching to /notes/ since it's easier to publish quickly
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[keithjgrant] curl --data "hub.mode=publish&hub.url[]=https%3A%2F%2Fkeithjgrant.com%2F&hub.url[]=https%3A%2F%2Fkeithjgrant.com%2Fnotes%2F" http://keithjgrant.superfeedr.com
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[keithjgrant] doesn't seem to work 😕
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aaronpk I did it with "curl https://keithjgrant.superfeedr.com -d hub.mode=publish -d hub.url=https://keithjgrant.com/notes/" and I got the notification!
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[keithjgrant] oh, something's come through
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[keithjgrant] ah, cool
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[keithjgrant] don't need to url encode then?
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aaronpk -d handles it
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[keithjgrant] awesome. worked again. Thanks for the help!
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aaronpk yay
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[keithjgrant] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 104 karma in this channel (1530 overall)
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aaronpk speaking of websub, newsblur is trying to subscribe to some things on switchboard and their callback URLs are returning 404
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Loqi yay!
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[keithjgrant] saving that into a shell script
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[keithjgrant] hopefully automate it some dae
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[keithjgrant] *day
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[keithjgrant] well, feedly is still a laggart
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aaronpk at least you know your publishing is working now!
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gRegorLove I subscribe to my h-feed and XML feeds in Woodwind and usually use it to test if superfeedr got my ping
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gRegorLove Recently used websub.rocks as well; works well!
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gRegorLove Woodwind hasn't updated any feeds for me in a bit, unfortunately.
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gRegorLove feels bad pestering kylewm about it, so usually doesn't
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aaronpk !tell tantek somehow your events are missing the p-name class when they are on your home page, but include the class on the permalink
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[miklb] saw some activity on the mastodon/fed.brid.gy issue, but doesn’t appear any change for me
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aaronpk !tell adactio is there any partilcular reason you don't have a photo in your h-card on your rel=author page? https://adactio.com/about/myself/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Jeremy Keith
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Zegnat aaronpk, you might want to +o Loqi so he can +v people again?
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aaronpk loqqiiiii
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Zegnat Oh, he is gone on all channels. But so are most people’s +vs ... was there a netsplit I missed?
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aaronpk must be
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[miklb] why is it picking up twitter.com as username and url?
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aaronpk what is?
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[miklb] this seems problematic https://fed.brid.gy/miklb.com
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[miklb] I’m not sure where that page gets created?
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[miklb] “preferredUsername”: “twitter.com”
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[miklb] “id”: “https://fed.brid.gy/twitter.com”
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gRegorLove asks Loqi for a v
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[miklb] whereas when I look at snarfed https://fed.brid.gy/snarfed.org
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sknebel your homepage h-card has twitter as the first u-url
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[miklb] oh
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[miklb] seems like a good time to clean up my h-card then. thanks sknebel
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sknebel it should at least have a self-reference as well
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sknebel some people do u-url for external sites, not sure if there is a fixed "rule" about that
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Zegnat What is a representative h-card?
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Loqi The representative h-card for a page is an h-card on that page that represents that page, if any, as not all pages are about a person or organization, a page might not have a representative h-card https://indieweb.org/representative_h-card
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Zegnat That’s the concept of the self-linking h-card ^^^
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aaronpk can someone who knows python describe what's happening with this "for...else" here? https://github.com/kylewm/silo.pub/blob/master/silopub/twitter.py#L322
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aaronpk is for...else a thing?
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sknebel yes, it is
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sknebel else part is executed if the loop finished (=wasn't exited with "break")
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[miklb] Zegnat thanks. I’ll look for some markup examples
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk thanks
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aaronpk comments out that whole block
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aaronpk i'd rather have the tweet fail than have it do the "Re: {url}" thing on twitter
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aaronpk that's bitten me a couple times already
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[eddie] indigenous-posting-screen https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F8SFRA8RL/screen_shot_2018-01-11_at_4.07.02_pm.png?pub_secret=9aedb08fe2&name=Screen Shot 2018-01-11 at 4.07.02 PM.png
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[eddie] I’m not 100% but I’m thinking I did this wrong and Title should be beneath “Replying To”, any thoughts?
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aaronpk I agree
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aaronpk in Quill, the thing you're replying to (reply context) is at the very top
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aaronpk also consider doing what micro.blog does where it only shows the title field if you type a reply that's longer than some number of characters
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aaronpk titles for replies is relatively uncommon anyway
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[miklb] 🎉 fixing my h-card I now show up in mastodon.social
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[eddie] That’s actually exactly what I’m doing. Default 280 characters, but I will probably make that a setting that can be adjusted
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aaronpk sweet
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[eddie] Basically the posting screen is the same no matter what you are posting. If the reply attribute is set on the micropub object, the reply field appears (the goal is it will also turn into a link preview if my xray instance can parse it).
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aaronpk nice
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[eddie] Thanks for confirming the title/reply switch. I did it as displayed but then it felt really off. haha
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[eddie] Congrats miklb!!
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Loqi rofl
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Zegnat Omnibear also puts the reply-to information above the UI. If you needed more prior-art :)
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[eddie] :thumbsup: Yes, definitely helps to know more UIs are doing that
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[eddie] thanks 🙂
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Zegnat BTW, [eddie], may I point you at http://www.otsukare.info/2017/11/02/fatwigoo ? When I go to your homepage with my current CSS/JS blocking my entire screen is filled with 2/3 of your menu icon. 😇
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Zegnat Omnibear reply interface: https://i.imgur.com/rU19HFP.png
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aaronpk my initial attempts at using Monocle as a public aggregator are promising
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sknebel aaronpk: "public aggregator"?
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aaronpk Like a planet
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sknebel ah
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aaronpk But not all posts from the blogs, just select ones
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upon2020.com edited /Webm1m (+65) "Added link to snarfed's post on methodology" (view diff)
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[mail] So I'm building my new indieweb website. Planning posts table. I'm just wondering about structure.
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[mail] I was thinking of a root post table that would hold `id, published_at, is_public`.
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[mail] Then give each post type a separate table that would link back to its root post.
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[mail] Does anybody smell any issues with that approach?
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snarfed [mail]: we've generally moved away from explicit post types
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snarfed http://indieweb.org/post-type-discovery
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sknebel many of us don't seperate posts in storage by type
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snarfed silos have generally moved away from them too
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sknebel but build the post presentation from the data attached to a post. E.g. aaronpk's site and mine have some variant of the mf2 as YAML stored
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[mail] ah k. So for example I will want to write posts / notes / articles etc.
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[mail] But also log tv / films watched and music listened to.
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[mail] I was thinking of making all as 'posts' but didn't want all of the tables for everything in one mega-table
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tantek [mail] consider a minimum viable posts table first, like just to handle "notes"
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 5 hours, 6 minutes ago: done! https://indieweb.org/Bridgy_Fed
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 2 hours, 18 minutes ago: somehow your events are missing the p-name class when they are on your home page, but include the class on the permalink
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tantek uh oh
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[mail] 😬
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[mail] "uh oh" doesn't sound good
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tantek yeah that was in response to aaronpk
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[mail] ah k
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sknebel [mail]: the benefit of having less fixed structure is that you can mix types. E.g. a reply with an image is just a post that has a "reply-to" property and an "image" property, which in a naive split into specific post types with a (Database)schema for each type can be harder
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[mail] ah ok
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[mail] thanks tantek. Yer I think I'm trying to plan the whole thing in one go
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[mail] I'll go with your advice i think
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[eddie] mail I store all my posts as “posts”, eating, drinking, watching, listening, articles, notes, likes, etc. that said, i store my posts as flat files so it doesn’t clog up a database table
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[mail] With something like jekyll you mean?
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sknebel flat files as a backend for dynamic software also works well
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[mail] hmm. I'd never thought of that
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sknebel I think aaronpk uses a database just for the index of what posts exists and has the actual per-post data in flat files
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sknebel my site still does everything from flat files
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tantek aaronpk, now I can't be sure I don't have that same bug with just /article posts on my home page too!
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tantek maybe I should write a blog post to find out
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[mail] eddie, sknebel, i was looking at this: https://github.com/Greg0/Lazer-Database
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Loqi [Greg0] Lazer-Database: PHP flat-file database to store data with JSON
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[mail] ooh found a markdown one too. Seems interesting
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[kevinmarks] hm https://github.com/beakerbrowser/fritter/issues/3
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Loqi [pfrazee] #3 Mentions
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[kevinmarks] wihtknown uses a json in mysql approach iirc