#dev 2018-01-19

2018-01-19 UTC
snarfed, snarfed1 and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
upon2020.com edited /backfeed (+1) "Use https so lock icon remains green" (view diff)
eli_oat, renem, [keithjgrant], [miklb], jjuran, [joe] and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] !tell aaronpk what do you think the best default is for Micropub. Urlencoded unless the post requires JSON (like embedded) or JSON unless they change settings to urlencoded. I don’t know how Micropub servers compare in their urlencoded vs JSON support
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
aaronpk Good question
#
Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 3 minutes ago: what do you think the best default is for Micropub. Urlencoded unless the post requires JSON (like embedded) or JSON unless they change settings to urlencoded. I don’t know how Micropub servers compare in their urlencoded vs JSON support
#
aaronpk I guess what I've been doing is form encoded for the simple ones, likes, reposts, plaintext notes, and JSON default for things that require it, and letting the user switch back to form encoded fallback if they want
#
aaronpk In the cases where the user chooses the form encoded fallback, there is definitely data lost, like checkins end up sending a plaintext representation without all the venue info
#
upon2020.com edited /IRC_People (+48) "Added link to avatar for myself" (view diff)
#
upon2020.com edited /IRC_People (-55) "Removed an old IRC handle of mine" (view diff)
#
upon2020.com edited /User:Upon2020.com (+88) "Minor updates" (view diff)
#
upon2020.com created /Consultants (+180) "Initial content ... I'm sure there are more people!" (view diff)
#
upon2020.com edited /Getting_Started (+243) "Added links to Tutorials, Homebrew Website Club and Consultants" (view diff)
[eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] That seems like a pretty good default. urlencoded for everything that you can, JSON only when it requires it. For now that means Indigenous can probably run almost completely off of urlencoded.
#
[eddie] Thanks!
cweiske, iasai, jeremycherfas, plindner, myfreeweb, [colinwalker], jeremych_, John_Ivan, [keithjgrant] and Loqi joined the channel
#
GWG Couldn't sleep, so I got up early and fixed some Micropub code.
eli_oat, leg, barpthewire and jeremycherfas joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:quill-auth-progress.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:quill-auth-progress.png"
[miklb], jeremycherfas and leg joined the channel
#
[miklb] aha! I think I just discovered my fastcgi cache permissions bork when I restart nginx.
raretrack and leg joined the channel
#
sknebel [miklb]: is your cache maybe in a tempfs? then it would be recreated on reboot of the machine
#
[miklb] maybe? I’ll investigate
#
@bitworking https://bitworking.org/news/2018/01/webmention-parsing-and-formatting-is-now-complete (twitter.com/_/status/954393341445201920)
[cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[miklb] sknebel I’m not sure how to determine that to be honest
#
sknebel what's the path to your cache dir?
#
[miklb] it is one level up from my public directory /var/www/mysite.com/cache public directory is /var/www/mysite.com/public
#
sknebel hm, no, that then should be on disk like normal
#
[miklb] if I purge the cache permissions stay good. But I was able to recreate the issue by simply reloading nginx. I’m OK with knowing that at this point, will just write shortcut to reload and reset perms I think.
#
[miklb] not that I anticipate having to reload nginx all the time, just while tweaking for performance
#
sknebel still odd. seems like the systemd unit/init file is resetting the permissions if it is happening on restart?
snarfed joined the channel
#
[miklb] that is a little outside my wheel house so not sure.
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] One for gwg https://twitter.com/b0rk/status/954221217866764288
#
@b0rk me before writing tests: ugh do I have to =( me immediately after writing tests: oh wow coding is gonna be so much easier now!!! (twitter.com/_/status/954221217866764288)
snarfed1 joined the channel
#
[miklb] but overall I’m pleased with performance. Even with a badly optimized image and all of the Twitter oembed stuff, I’m getting < 3 sec full load, < .5 time to first bye So I should quit for now while I’m ahead
snarfed and [keithjgrant] joined the channel
#
[keithjgrant] I think I’ve set everything up correctly for fed.brid.gy, but I can’t follow @keithjgrant.com@keithjgrant.com. I click the "+" button to follow, but I see no posts. When I come back to the profile later, I see an hourglass where the "+" was
#
[keithjgrant] (on Mastodon)
snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed [keithjgrant]: ugh. apologies! sounds like https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/1 8
#
Loqi [singpolyma] #1 Add docs on *what* needs to be redirected from well-known, not just a blanket redirect
#
snarfed er https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/18
#
Loqi [snarfed] #18 figure out user and post discovery
#
snarfed bridgy fed isn't actually involved in getting your site or its original posts to show up in mastodon, just responses
#
[keithjgrant] ah
#
snarfed but that's definitely a common desire that isn't clear or reliable right now
#
[keithjgrant] so I need to syndicate some other way for now
#
[keithjgrant] how do I post to mastodon as @keithjgrant.com@keithjgrant.com though?
#
snarfed for original posts, it's not actually syndication, it's federation, which is subtly different
#
snarfed the difference is, you don't create new posts inside mastodon. instead, you get it to see and surface your site's original posts
#
snarfed *how* is still the finicky part. people do have it working (https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/18 , https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/1441#issuecomment-302969948 )
#
Loqi [snarfed] #18 figure out user and post discovery
#
snarfed i don't really use mastodon, so i haven't had the self dogfood pressure :/
#
[miklb] I would use it if I could figure out the federation
#
snarfed [miklb]: i'd love the help!
#
[miklb] sure. I revisit it every couple of weeks. Getting @miklb.com@miklb.com to show up was a good step I think.
#
snarfed [miklb]++
#
Loqi miklb has 13 karma in this channel (71 overall)
eli_oat, curve25519 and leg joined the channel
#
[keithjgrant] which federated network do you use fed.brid.gy on?
gRegair joined the channel
#
aaronpk haha yeah that's how my attempts have been going too. every few weeks I try again and get a little farther
#
Loqi ahahaha
#
[miklb] keithjgrant my profile through fed.brid.gy shows up in mastodon.social Still doesn’t pick up any posts however.
#
[keithjgrant] Yeah, that’s about what I've got. I can *see* the profile, but no posts and I can’t successfully follow it
#
[keithjgrant] tantalizing
#
snarfed heh. definitely shows the power of self dogfood and scratching your own itch. my only personal use case for bridgy fed is liking/replying, so that's working pretty well, but i don't use it at all otherwise (e.g. following, reading, posting), so those clearly aren't there yet
#
[keithjgrant] Yeah. I’m still not entirely sure what my ideal workflow would be. I think I’d want to follow mastodon accounts via RSS, and see the posts in a standalone reader
#
snarfed yup that's what i do
#
[keithjgrant] Then use something like Omnibear to reply/like etc. and have that all federate back into the network(s)
#
aaronpk that works right now
#
[keithjgrant] what reader do you use?
#
aaronpk it's just that people on mastodon/ostatus can't follow your profile
#
[keithjgrant] yeah. It's one-way 😕
#
[keithjgrant] I have no idea how we could indicate the follow to them. Somehow let them know "@keithjgrant.com@keithjgrant.com" is following them back, for instance
#
snarfed ([keithjgrant]: newsblur)
#
[keithjgrant] cool, I'll check it out. on the fence with Feedly right now
#
snarfed it's activitypub, so fed.brid.gy could definitely translate an mf2 "follow" post on your site to an activitypub follow that mastodon could consume
#
[keithjgrant] oh cool
#
snarfed not sure where we are on mf2 follow though
#
snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/550
#
Loqi [rhiaro] #550 POSSE following/friending someone new
#
aaronpk oh huh, would mastodon recognize a follow post?
#
snarfed hopefully?
#
sknebel not a "follow post" from your site, but activitypub has a special subscribe message does it not? I guess bridgy fed would generate one of those and submit it to the right mastodon instance?
#
snarfed right, a "Follow" activity
#
snarfed looks like mastodon's consumption is buggy right now. https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/4933
#
Loqi [zotlabs] #4933 Mastodon rewrites actor URL on foreign service
#
sknebel (is the post discovery part in one of the new standards, or is that how GNU social did it or ...? (as in, will other software implementing activitypub be forced to also accept a simple atom feed for interop, or could there be issues with them requiring different feeds?)
#
snarfed but still, as a bridge, bridgy fed's job is to translate, so ideally it would consume some mf2 form of the "follow" from your own site
#
snarfed sknebel: complicated q, complicated answers, mostly see https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/1441
#
Loqi [raymestalez] #1441 What is necessary for Mastodon to be able to fetch my profile and a list of posts from my blog?
#
sknebel yes. just wanted to clarify what "would mastodon recognize a follow post" means (=mastodon seeing the post via feed vs bridgy sending something speical thats not on your site but is based on the post)
#
snarfed ah got it. yeah theoretically mastodon (and hubzilla etc) can see and ingest posts from your site via atom. but afaik that's just posts. interactions like follow, they need activitypub or ostatus, respectively
[jonathanprozzi] joined the channel
#
snarfed filed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/21
#
Loqi [snarfed] #21 translate following, both directions
#
[keithjgrant] https://twitter.com/zachleat/status/954023820570087425
#
@zachleat ★ spider-pig is a command line utility that takes a URL and retrieves all the local URL links on the page. It can also search for a CSS selector on each local URL to measure the impact of a CSS change. https://github.com/zachleat/spider-pig https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DT1fRCdV4AExhc2.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/954023820570087425)
#
[keithjgrant] I wonder if there's anything similar to this to find *non* local links. would be useful for sending webmentions
cweiske and eli_oat joined the channel
#
aaronpk [keithjgrant]: I wrote a webmention client in ruby and php for that
#
KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/connection for python, though not sure I have kept it up to date
#
Loqi [kartikprabhu] connection
#
[keithjgrant] Didn't someone say something recently about one that sent WMs based on a PubSub subscription?
[cleverdevil] and leg joined the channel
#
snarfed [keithjgrant]: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/20/5/global-webmentions ?
#
Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Enabling Global Webmentions with Telegraph and Superfeedr
#
snarfed (https://snarfed.org/global-webmention-service )
#
Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Global webmention service
deathrow1 joined the channel
#
[keithjgrant] Those are incoming WMs. I meant for sending outgoing ones
#
[keithjgrant] Or does it do both?
#
snarfed ah. telegraph does that
eli_oat joined the channel
#
[keithjgrant] Really? Automated? I need to dig into that!
#
tantek.com edited /blocked_subdomains (+180) "clean-up dfn, make the problem clear (someone else's)" (view diff)
#
tantek.com moved /Microformats_tax to /microformats_overhead "more overhead (additional work to make changes) than a tax, AKA "regular maintenance" whether you make changes or not"
#
tantek.com edited /microformats_overhead (+832) "a kind of markup overhead, why overhead worth it? must consider for any new mf2 features" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /prehistory (-3) "fix etc. in dfn" (view diff)
[tantek], tantek and eli_oat joined the channel
#
Zegnat Is that change to /blocked_subdomains official policy? Should we actively extend the list to other “free blogging or static file hosts”?
#
Zegnat My previous wording was specifically to be *descriptive* of the current situation. https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=44547&oldid=44299&rcid=44445
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
eli_oat @aaronpk I have a potentially stupid question: how does one find their token in telegraph?
#
Zegnat eli_oat: on the dashboard, hover your website name (“My Website” is the default I think) and click on the settings icon that shows up
#
Zegnat “API Key” and “Superfeedr Webhook URL” are on that page
#
eli_oat PERFECT!
#
eli_oat thank you so much
#
eli_oat I wouldn't have EVER found that
#
sknebel file a bug :P
#
eli_oat :does so:
#
sknebel (I was clicking around in parallel and started to look through to source in github because I knew there was a page and couldn't find it...)
[artur] joined the channel
#
sknebel eli_oat: btw, did you see my comment about your h-cards? (apparently I didn't leave a !tell) - the url property on your h-cards points to the article it is on, not your homepage
#
eli_oat I did see that
#
eli_oat just haven't taken action yet
#
sknebel ok, just making sure
#
eli_oat thanks
#
eli_oat the reason I link back to the specific post in my h-card is that I wanted to make sure replies/reposts of my stuff on other sites would link back to the correct source
#
tantek.com edited /consultant (+405) "more useful dfn, encouragement to add people, kevinmarks and j12t who I thought I saw listed already but perhaps that was a different page?" (view diff)
#
eli_oat is that not something I should worry about, or does including a u-url solve that?
#
tantek.com edited /Consultants (-156) "redirect to singular is fine, no need for two pages for this" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /consultant (+198) "merge some additional content from [[Consultants]]" (view diff)
#
[tantek] ^^^ kevinmarks, j12t please add links to others's sites you helped setup and or maintain
#
j12t Will do, after the flu has passed ...
#
Loqi j12t: tantek left you a message on 2017-11-17 at 6:30pm UTC: also consider joining the WordPress Outreach Club which helps folks onboard with WordPress and such: https://indieweb.org/WordPress_Outreach_Club
#
Zegnat eli_oat people who display your stuff on their pages should be linking to the specific u-url of the h-entry. If they do not, ask them to do that.
#
Zegnat Should be separate from your h-card, which should always link to *you* (the h-card is *you* afterall)
#
eli_oat ah, so now to clean up my h-entry :P
#
[tantek] j12t oh no! Get well soon! (I got my flu shot just 6 days ago myself)
#
kevinmarks.com edited /consultant (+166) (view diff)
#
GWG snarfed, you object to https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieauth/pull/16#pullrequestreview-90120401
#
snarfed that's a question? ie do i object?
#
snarfed i'll reply
#
GWG Yes. pfefferle suggested I reverse the situation
#
GWG Thanks. Should have just tagged you
eli_oat and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
@t Another thing I need to implement for my site: * Delegation — a way to entrust someone(s) via OAuth preferably IndieAuth (without sharing passwords) to post things on my site on my behalf while I’m on vacation, e.g. indie events for #IndieWeb ... http://tantek.com/t4sW2 (twitter.com/_/status/954472515413295104)
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
@nhoizey @mariejulien J’allais te répondre, mais @Enwin a tout dit ! 😉 Ah si, je suis un dingue de webperf depuis des années, et je n’ai pas de lazy loading sur mes images. J’y viendrai peut-être juste pour les Webmentions. (twitter.com/_/status/954477588038193154)
#
tantek_ oh hey I should have checked my email first - PTD NOTE got published! https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/NOTE-post-type-discovery-20180118/
#
Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Post Type Discovery
#
snarfed tantek++ congrats!
#
Loqi tantek has 22 karma in this channel (416 overall)
#
[cleverdevil] It'd be nice if the "items" returned as part of a request to "timeline" in a microsub server included some level of detail about the source associated with that item, such as the name, and the url of the site.
#
tantek.com edited /Webm1m (+172) "Blog posts!" (view diff)
#
aaronpk I was thinking about that too
#
[cleverdevil] I say this for media sites that may have many authors.
#
[cleverdevil] So, for The Verge, for example.
#
[cleverdevil] It'd be nice if I could tell in a timeline that a particular item was written by Author X for The Verge.
#
aaronpk My other use case was for the thread name of a forum post
#
[cleverdevil] Ah, good one.
#
aaronpk Similar but slightly different
#
aaronpk I want to approach both of these from how they'd be presented in the UI
#
sknebel is 1 feed == 1 channel?
#
aaronpk No I usually add several feeds to a channel
#
aaronpk Channel is kind of like a folder in some readers
#
sknebel right, scrolled past the right section and got confused
#
@t Event: Homebrew Website Club SF — One Million Webmentions Party! At: 2018-01-24 17:30 @MozSF RSVP: http://tantek.com/e/4sa1 (twitter.com/_/status/954486111530901504)
#
aaronpk [cleverdevil]: do you know of other reader UIs that show this information? Screenshots of those would be a good place to start
#
[cleverdevil] Yup, let me look.
#
aaronpk I do think we need some indication of which "source" a post came from if only to provide a UI to unsubscribe from the source a particular post came from
#
[cleverdevil] http://reederapp.com/mac/
#
[cleverdevil] Has some good screenshots.
#
tantek_ what is reederapp
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "reederapp" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "reederapp is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
tantek_ what is reeder
#
Loqi Reeder is a traditional feed reader on iOS and MacOS https://indieweb.org/Reeder
#
tantek_ reederapp is /Reeder
#
Loqi ok
#
loqi.me created /reederapp (+19) "prompted by tantek_ and redirect added by tantek_" (view diff)
#
cweiske tt-rss author indicators: http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2018/2018-01-19%20tt-rss%20author%20indicators.png
#
aaronpk hm they don't seem to indicate any author information at all
#
[cleverdevil] https://feedbin.com/home
#
[cleverdevil] I much prefer the approach that Reeder and Feedbin take.
#
[cleverdevil] Channel > Source > Author > Item
#
aaronpk I don't see that on reeder
#
[cleverdevil] I need to be able to see that entire context when consuming.
#
www.svenknebel.de uploaded /File:inoreader_channel_author_feed_example.png "Inoreader UI screenshot, showing how author and source feed are shown on an article. https://indieweb.org/File:inoreader channel author feed example.png"
#
[cleverdevil] http://share.cleverdevil.io/foSTa4RWoY.png
#
[cleverdevil] MacStories is the source.
#
aaronpk Feedbin doesn't show the author until you've expanded the individual story
#
[cleverdevil] Graham Spencer is the author.
#
[cleverdevil] Also, if you look, the Reeder UX always shows that information, just not always in the view for the item itself.
#
aaronpk Both of these don't seem to show the author until you've drilled down to the item
#
aaronpk They primarily show the feed name
#
[cleverdevil] http://share.cleverdevil.io/RrNuaMgpru.png
#
[cleverdevil] Basically, in Together, which (currently) provides more of a timeline or "river of news" experience, there is only a Channel name and an Item in view.
#
[cleverdevil] Which means that the Author and the Source need to show up as well.
#
[cleverdevil] Inside the view for the Item itself.
#
aaronpk The idea of always showing the list of sources per channel is interesting too. I'm not sure it makes sense for everything but for the traditional blog feed following it makes sense
[miklb] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] nods
#
aaronpk Heading to dinner in a minute but I want to capture this on the wiki
#
[cleverdevil] Its just sort of difficult to create that experience on the frontend without the data in the backend.
#
aaronpk Maybe can you add these screenshots and descriptions to the brainstorming section?
#
[cleverdevil] Yeah, I am about to head out as well. But, I can commit to doing that tonight.
#
@calum_ryan 📢 RSVPs open to next week's Homebrew Website Club London 🎉 Celebrating 1M Webmentions! ✏️ Add to that number and send your RSVP via Webmention to https://hwclondon.co.uk/meetups/20180124 (twitter.com/_/status/954490731317616640)
[kevinmarks], [tantek], gRegground, snarfed and [colinwalker] joined the channel