#dev 2018-01-22

2018-01-22 UTC
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upon2020.com edited /User:Upon2020.com (+414) "Updated some links and descriptions" (view diff)
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j12t How do I get the wiki to display the little profile picture on all pages? I have it on the IRC page, but not the others.
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tantek j12t what do you mean by "on all pages"?
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[kevinmarks] I think you need a template
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j12t tantek: E.g. https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started, Ben and Kevin have their picture in front of their names, but Erin does not. The markup looks the same, though.
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KartikPrabhu j12t: see https://indieweb.org/Template:kartik for a template
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j12t Ahhh! The problem turns out something entirely different: I pointed my template to the Twitter profile picture, and Firefox tracking protection does not render it.
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j12t I changed it to some other URL, and now it works.
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tantek j12t it's by personal choice, edit your /Template:j12t accordingly, and since you pointed out Ben and Kevin, check their templates for how they did it /Template:benwerd /Template:kevinmarks
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tantek interesting - I use my twitter profile pic too - do you not see my image next to my name on the wiki in places like https://indieweb.org/events/2018-01-24-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco
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tantek ?
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j12t Nope.
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j12t Just disabled Adblock Plus, but made no difference
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KartikPrabhu tantek: your twitter picture does not show up there. FF tracking protection bocks it
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KartikPrabhu tantek: here is the console message "The resource at “https://twitter.com/t/profile_image” was blocked because tracking protection is enabled."
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tantek ah apparently I had it only on "Only in private windows" ok good to know, now I'll go debug stuff
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upon2020.com edited /consultant (+184) "Added background" (view diff)
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tantek yep there it goes
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tantek j12t reload
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j12t ... and then, the likeness of tantek magically appeared :-)
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KartikPrabhu confirmed
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk: Interesting, I noticed that indieauth.com returns a me=URL when providing the authorization_code response back to the client. However, when looking at the Spec, I don’t see that as being required. Is that an old thing that IndieAuth.com is doing?
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk: I ask because I actually have Indigenous checking for it, so that might be breaking on some instances if people aren’t returning that. In fact since my new authorization_endpoint went by the spec, I didn’t add it and broke Indigenous for myself! oops 🙂
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+2228) "/* Working On */ new top priorities: Own my issues and issue replies, Own my list emails and replies" (view diff)
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tantek new stake in the ground ^^^
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+8) "/* Own my issues and issue replies */ linky" (view diff)
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tantek what is delegation
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "delegation" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "delegation is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek delegation is a way to entrust someone(s) via OAuth preferably IndieAuth (without sharing passwords) to post things on your site on your behalf while you are away, like on vacation.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /delegation (+208) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+324) "/* Itches */ Delegation" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /water (+257) "prompted by [miklb] and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /water (+362) "tantek added "2016-11-04 sensors and sensibility: [https://sensorsandsensibility.com/posts/2016/4/11/hidrate-spark-smart-bottle Hidrate Spark smart bottle review] <blockquote>Taking dangerous steps into the land of We Put a Chip In It, I backed and jus..." (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /water (+6) "tantek added "iot" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /water (+4) "fix link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /delegation (+431) "indieweb examples none so far, silo examples Google and office.com per kevinmarks links" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IRC_People (-43) "use my own 8k jpg instead of Twitter" (view diff)
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aaronpk [eddie] we were just talking about that part of the spec tonight haha
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 3 hours, 23 minutes ago: Interesting, I noticed that indieauth.com returns a me=URL when providing the authorization_code response back to the client. However, when looking at the Spec, I don’t see that as being required. Is that an old thing that IndieAuth.com is doing?
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 3 hours, 23 minutes ago: I ask because I actually have Indigenous checking for it, so that might be breaking on some instances if people aren’t returning that. In fact since my new authorization_endpoint went by the spec, I didn’t add it and broke Indigenous for myself! oops 🙂
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Loqi awesome
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aaronpk I haven't removed it from IndieAuth.com entirely yet because i don't want to break all the clients expecting it. I do plan on removing that when I launchthe
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aaronpk two new sites tho
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GWG When did that change?
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aaronpk A few months ago I think
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aaronpk There's a github issue thread or maybe wiki edit history about it
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GWG It says "Clients must use the resulting me value from the authorization code verification or access token response rather than assume the initially entered URL is correct."
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/167
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Loqi [aaronpk] #167 Consider dropping `me` from the GET request that contains the code
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aaronpk Better thread: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/85
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Loqi [fkooman] #85 do not send `me` to callback
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GWG aaronpk: My point is that the sentence I referenced mentions it. If it MUST be used, then how can it not be there? Isn't that confusing?
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aaronpk That sentence does not say to use the "me" in the GET request
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aaronpk (There should be no "me" in the GET request)
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GWG Oh, the GET request
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GWG I missed that.
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[eddie] Gotcha. Thanks aaronpk. It’s funny, I accidentally built Indigenous testing it mostly off of IndieAuth.com. Turns out because I built my IndieAuth endpoint off the spec I found my own bug!!! Haha 😆 that doesn’t happen every day
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Loqi [eddie]: lol
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[eddie] Thanks Loqi, always just in time
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Loqi you're welcome
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[eddie] 😒
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tantek on the topic of expired certs: http://www.somebits.com/weblog/tech/bad/sf-treasurer-site-is-insecure.html
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tantek even the property tax collector can't afford to pay the https admin tax
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[cleverdevil] Good evening, IndieWeb! I'm back from my little weekend getaway. I hope IWC Baltimore was amazing 🙂
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tantek I feel like things like this have been discussed here before? https://lgbt.io/@nelson/99383650717846720
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Loqi [Nelson Minar] Free business idea: a domain parking service for people who want to retire a website but want to keep it online and out of the hands of SEO spammers.Take a one-time static snapshot of the site when it is parked. Serve that very cheaply as static file...
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[eddie] Hey cleverdevil ! Hope you had a good getaway! IWC Baltimore went super well!!
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[cleverdevil] Awesome. Yes, the getaway was lovely, and much-needed. Took the wife to San Diego for her Christmas gift. Five star hotel, dinner at a great restaurant, Hamilton, and then brunch with a view (and champagne). I'm pretty sure we knocked it out of the park this year for Christmas 😉
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[cleverdevil] I saw your video preview of the updates to Indigenous and I'm drooling in anticipation 😄
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tantek what are analytics
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Loqi analytics is the collection, analysis and reporting of a websites traffic https://indieweb.org/analytics
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[eddie] Haha, glad you’re excited, cleverdevil! Apple has been dragging its feet on the review time this weekend. I’m excited to finally get it out to people 🙂
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Loqi hehe
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[kevinmarks] Actually good json vs html/xml discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11446984
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Loqi [jerf] "What is XML good at?" (For the purposes of this post, I'm including HTML in the XML family.) XML/HTML is good when: 1. You have two dimensions of markup you want to do. That is, you have a clear distinction between what is a new "tag" and what is an...
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@hdv @paciellogroup thanks! Have updated my post to include your comment (it will also appear as a Webmention, but just to be sure :-)) (twitter.com/_/status/955469805750013958)
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tantek wow jgarber is doing a great job updating indieweb/microformats-ruby on GitHub
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tantek jgarber++
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Loqi jgarber has 1 karma in this channel (9 overall)
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tantek what is Code Climate?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Code Climate" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Code Climate is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek we over here [jgarber] :)
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[jgarber] Cross-posting from the #microformats channel:
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[jgarber] 2. Over on Code Climate, go to https://codeclimate.com/oss/dashboard and click “Add Repository” in the top right.
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[jgarber] I was having some trouble getting Code Climate to recognize that I was an admin/owner (in the GitHub sense) of a repository belonging to a GitHub organization. Because of this, I wasn’t able to configure the repository on Code Climate (despite being able to add it to my account).
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[jgarber] 1. Follow the steps on this page: https://docs.codeclimate.com/v1.0/docs/approve-code-climate-as-a-third-party-application-in-github to make sure the IndieWeb GitHub organization is granting access to Code Climate (turns out this was off for my org-owned repo).
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[jgarber] Turns out I had to do the following:
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[jgarber] 3. Click “Sync now” in the top right.
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[jgarber] 4. Once that’s done, click “Add Repo” next to any of the IndieWeb GitHub organization-owned repos that you’d like to add to Code Climate. This is silly since, if your account is anything like mine, many of those repos are already in Code Climate. Go figure.
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[jgarber] After re-adding the org-owned repo, I was able to see the Settings option in Code Climate.
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tantek hence why I asked
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tantek what is Code Climate
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Code Climate" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Code Climate is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgarber] ☝ Those instructions are pertinent to the IndieWeb GitHub organization (which I’m not an admin/owner/member of), but they should work for anyone in a similar situation.
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[jgarber] Code Climate is a private company providing Web-based automated code review and maintainability data. It is free to use for open-source repositories.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Code_Climate (+176) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by [jgarber]" (view diff)
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[jgarber] Shazam.
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tantek ooh - then defintely worth capturing those instructions on that newly created wiki page! thanks!
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[jgarber] Will do!
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk: What PHP version are you running teacup on? I installed it on my server to see if I could remove it’s reliance on the me property (https://github.com/aaronpk/Teacup/issues/8) but for some reason I’m getting back an error in the footer that the authorizing attribute is undefined rather than displaying the login form
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Zegnat] #8 Depends on the authorization endpoint returning a me parameter.
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aaronpk oh hey there is an open issue for that after all!
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[eddie] lol
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aaronpk probably need to update the indieauth/client dependency in the composer.json, as well as do something like this https://github.com/aaronpk/Quill/commit/e590c95c9f21fab9ebf2ba2efd83cca79585cfca
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[eddie] Yeah, that makes sense :thumbsup:
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aaronpk want me to do it? I'm waiting for videos to render right now anyway
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aaronpk I think I can solve that other error too
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[eddie] Sure, if you have the time and feel like it. You obviously know the code better than I do 😉
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aaronpk I can't believe how long it's been since i've touched any of the Teacup code despite actually using it multiple times every day
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[eddie] Well that’s a good sign in some ways. It’s working pretty dependably. lol
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aaronpk oh yeah, indieauth/client and the mf2 parser in Teacup are really old
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sixtwothree.org edited /Code_Climate (+1320) "Add instructions for adding/configuring organization-owned repositories" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme jgarber++
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Loqi jgarber has 2 karma in this channel (10 overall)
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[eddie] The next build of Indigenous should hopefully support more IndieAuth endpoints. It no longer relies on the me value 🙌 🙌
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aaronpk 🎉
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[eddie] The wonders of selfdogfooding! haha
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Loqi ahaha
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aaronpk doing a little housecleaning on Teacup
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aaronpk hah, my own auth server doesn't return "me" so I can't actually log into Teacup right now either! Guess I've been using the little bookmark to home screen thing for so long that I haven't had to log in.
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[eddie] oh wow!
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[eddie] haha
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aaronpk i'm glad I fixed this and didn't make you fix it. there were a few tricky things in it not related to this problem
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[keithjgrant] So, I’m working on a feature for Omnibear to (optionally) automatically generate a slug from the post content
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[keithjgrant] How many words do y’all suppose I should limit it to. Five?
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[keithjgrant] "If this were my post content in this here string" the generated slug would be "if-this-were-my-post"
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aaronpk i'd take a look at what wordpress does
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[keithjgrant] oh, good idea
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: I think I do 40 characters
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KartikPrabhu it is an arbitrary number I chose
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aaronpk I know some of them remove certain words too
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[keithjgrant] wordpress slugifies the whole title. Omnibear does note without a title
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[eddie] aaronpk: Well in that case, I’m glad you fixed it too 😉
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[keithjgrant] Are MP endpoints responsible for de-duping slugs/urls?
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aaronpk yeah, and slug is just a suggestion anyway
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aaronpk my posts all have unique URLs not including the slug, so in my case it's fine to have duplicate slugs between posts
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aaronpk but some sites use the slug as the unique URL along with like just the year, so they'd have to dedupe appropriately
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KartikPrabhu should a MP client tell the MP server thaat it has deduped and changed the slug?
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KartikPrabhu or should that be silent?
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aaronpk you mean the other way around?
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aaronpk the client doesn't really need to know once it knows the final URL of the post
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KartikPrabhu errr yeah
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[keithjgrant] looks like mine just returns a 400 if I try a duplicate slug 🙈
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KartikPrabhu no, as in telling the user so they can "confirm" if they like it or something
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aaronpk that sounds more like a slug preview or something
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aaronpk I think wordpress has that basically
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[xavierroy] aaronpk reg: teacup issue 9: Yes, the date and time are accurate when i post... but once posted, it goes back to UNIX epoch:
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[xavierroy] Just posted a test one: https://teacup.p3k.io/xavierroy.com/13782
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Loqi testfood https://teacup.p3k.io/map.png?marker[]=lat:12.93231;lng:80.18876;icon:small-green-cutout&basemap=topo&width=300&height=174&zoom=14
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GWG Afternoon
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GWG Aaronpk, you working on teacup?
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GWG If so, can I push https://github.com/aaronpk/Teacup/issues/7
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Loqi [dshanske] #7 Docs
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GWG How do you work on code when it is code awaiting a PR?
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GWG I always have trouble with that?
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GWG Do I branch the branch?
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eli_oat question more or less unrelated to indieweb stuff so feel free to ignore, but, does anyone know if I can make a url like www.subdomain.root.com
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eli_oat so, ta subdomain of a subdomain
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GWG Oh, and aaronpk, thanks for the links in the specification. That is really helpful in clearing up ambiguity
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GWG eli_oat, you can
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eli_oat thanks
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[keithjgrant] Anybody on here who speaks a language with non-latin characters and/or accent marks? Curious what you preference would be for slugifying those
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[kevinmarks] Gah, why was that mhtml?
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[kevinmarks] https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/issues/820#issuecomment-359499096
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Loqi [pfrazee] I spent the weekend preparing a solution to this issue that I'd like to propose. My goal was to make something that won't generate too much frustration. That's a pretty high bar to clear in an opinionated space, so I hope this gets close, and I a...
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[xavierroy] keithjgrant I speak தமிழ் https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_language
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[keithjgrant] that's definitely not as straightforward as converting è to e 🙂
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GWG Learn something new every day
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[xavierroy] 🙂
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[keithjgrant] I see some libs that latinize slugs (Russian is a given example). I’m... dubious about that approach
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snarfed GWG: yeah you can create a new branch off of your PR branch and work there. then, after the PR has been iterated and merged, pull master and rebase the downstream branch to get any changes
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GWG Snarfed, that's what I thought. The Indieauth token stuff is a big PR, but I had aaronpk's full involvement so I pressed on
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GWG snarfed, I have unit tests to write
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snarfed testing++
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Loqi testing has 3 karma in this channel (22 overall)
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GWG Specifically, some of the stuff I radically changed yesterday
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GWG Suddenly, I am hashing stuff, and base64 encoding things, and setting cookies
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GWG It is definitely the most in the weeds I've gone into security protections.
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snarfed GWG++ growth is good!
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Loqi gwg has 21 karma in this channel (306 overall)
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GWG snarfed, as I said, with auth I want as many eyes on it as I can before it goes to WordPress.org . It could compromise sites if it is insecure.
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GWG Oh, he left, never mind
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aaronpk [xavierroy] do you have any browser extensions enabled that might be messing with the form?
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aaronpk ohh another thought... what locale is your browser?
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aaronpk aha figured it out... you're in a half-hour timezone offset!
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aaronpk [xavierroy] try it now!
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aaronpk [keithjgrant]: whatever you do with slug generation just make sure you don't use the unescaped version of html entities like this post: 😂 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ldquo-the-problem-child-of-seasonal-flu-rdquo-beware-this-winter-rsquo-s-virus/
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aaronpk "ldquo"
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[eddie] Hmmm, Indigenous got rejected for the first time… apparently App Review is upset that they can’t log in and test it. The strange thing is the past 2 betas went through fine. I guess they didn’t demo them? haha.
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk huh weird, they usually want to at least log in
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[eddie] I guess I need to copy my authenticate and token endpoint over and create a basic micropub endpoint on a test server
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aaronpk oh boy haha
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[eddie] haha yeah
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[eddie] The good news is the micropub doesn’t have to actually output anything
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aaronpk true
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[eddie] It just needs to respond with a Location header to satisfy Indigenous
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[eddie] Good thing I just finished homemade authorization and token endpoints
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[eddie] haha
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[eddie] based off of a password too, so I can just give this new test server a random password and provide that to them
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aaronpk perfect
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[keithjgrant] aaronpk ha! I'm sticking with a few regex filters. It currently drops non-latin chars, which is... not ideal. But I'm going to call it MVP for the time being
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[keithjgrant] ooh, I just found a quick and easy solution for replacing w/ latin chars. a little bit better.
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@deathmtn Wasn’t there already something like Webmentions in some early blogging platform? I remember seeing mentions on other blogs at the bottom of posts. Maybe that’s what inspired this. https://webmention.net/draft/ (twitter.com/_/status/955537364524392449)
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tantek aaronpk: is there any guidance in the spec on retrying webmentions?
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aaronpk I don't think there is
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tantek.com edited /water (+581) "indieweb examples, aaronpk, silo examples hidrate spark, reconnect dfn sentences for more context" (view diff)
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aaronpk ha
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[miklb] now he’s just trolling me 😂
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tantek.com edited /water (+59) "shorten dfn a bit, move more details to Hidrate SPark section" (view diff)
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@Johannes_Ernst jernst 13:08 on January 22, 2018 Permalink Log in to leave a Comment Testing 3 2 1, please ignore Reply Cancel replyYou must be logged in to post a comment. Respond on your own site? Send me a Webmention by writing something… https://upon2020.com/banter/?p=2487 (twitter.com/_/status/955547940084383744)
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aaronparecki.com edited /water (+81) "update my examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /💧 (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /water (+18) "emojicon" (view diff)
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j12t Thanks snarfed for the fix!
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snarfed j12t: welcome!
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tantek.com edited /water (-4) "-.dev" (view diff)
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aaronpk oops haha
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk i'm considering setting up a few indieauth identity URLs that everyone can use for testing, in order to test some of the trickier situations in clients
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aaronpk inspired by marty's short URL issue https://github.com/aaronpk/Quill/issues/89
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Loqi [martymcguire] #89 Follow short url => canonical and http/https redirects
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aaronpk maybe that's a good use of indieauth.rocks
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tantek what is jekyll
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tantek what is minima
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "minima" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "minima is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is jekyll
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Loqi Jekyll is Ruby software that helps you create "Simple, blog-aware, static sites" suitable for static domain hosting https://indieweb.org/Jekyll
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tantek barryfrost++ congrats on the recent update to Jekyll's default Minima theme with microformats support! https://twitter.com/jekyllrb/status/955551155031101440
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Loqi barryfrost has 1 karma
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@jekyllrb Default theme minima v2.2.0 brings better SEO, microformats, and support for more social networks. Feel free to bundle update. https://rubygems.org/gems/minima/versions/2.2.0 (twitter.com/_/status/955551155031101440)
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tantek (that's a pretty big deal IMO)
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[miklb] yep, was just reading the discussion on that pull request https://github.com/jekyll/minima/pull/160
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Loqi [barryf] #160 Add Microformats markup
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aaronpk this is a great example of how small of a diff is required to add microformats https://github.com/jekyll/minima/pull/160/files
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[jgarber] barryfrost++
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Loqi barryfrost has 2 karma
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snarfed aaronpk: sounds like https://commentpara.de/ ?
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aaronpk yeah except with specific profile URLs crafted for the various edge cases
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tantek.com edited /Jekyll (+346) "/* IndieWeb Support */ microformats2 support by default! rewrite rest as a history section with dates as items, add when pull request was merged" (view diff)
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tantek wow 3 months to the day when Barry submitted the pull request.
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[barryf] Oh cool! Nice to see that PR merged to master.
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tantek barryf++
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Loqi barryf has 3 karma in this channel (13 overall)
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tantek a-ha
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tantek barryf, more than merged (that was last Nov), but gem updated!
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[barryf] Yes indeed. Next step will be for it to make its way to GitHub Pages.
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tantek oh wow I wonder how long that takes
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[kevinmarks] too harsh? https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/issues/820#issuecomment-357727477
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Loqi [kevinmarks] Fritter's use case is very close to what Activity Streams was designed around, so if you're committed to going with JSON-LD, adopting that makes sense. The field names have been thought through and based on converging multiple social networks over ti...
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[kevinmarks] oops, https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/issues/820#issuecomment-359586628
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Loqi [kevinmarks] I think you have addressed an imaginary problem to avoid dealing with a real one. Currently you have a handful of field names that don't need namespaces. You are going to have to cope with people adding arbitrary new fields to your json, because i...
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tantek wow that's a hard to follow abstract discussion
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tantek curious to see how much "friction" the beaker folks feel from JSON-LD, or have they already given up on it?
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aaronpk It sounds like they gave up on it? tbh that whole thread is very confusing to follow
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[kevinmarks] they are feeling friction, but the lead is proposing a different namespace centric answer instead.
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[kevinmarks] o_O
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[kevinmarks] https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/issues/820#issuecomment-359499096
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Loqi [pfrazee] I spent the weekend preparing a solution to this issue that I'd like to propose. My goal was to make something that won't generate too much frustration. That's a pretty high bar to clear in an opinionated space, so I hope this gets close, and I a...
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[kevinmarks] this is mostly reasonable: https://github.com/pfrazee/json-lz/blob/master/DESIGN.md
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[kevinmarks] but inventing yet another namespace thingamjig
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[kevinmarks] JSON-LD << https://github.com/pfrazee/json-lz/blob/master/DESIGN.md
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Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/pfrazee/json-lz/blob/master/DESIGN.md" to the "See Also" section of /JSON-LD
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aaronpk just realized I should have made my home page grid as an SVG, cause I can still add interactivity to SVGs
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[kevinmarks] svg++
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Loqi svg has 1 karma in this channel (9 overall)
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[kevinmarks] you could do it with css grid too
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aaronpk if you can figure that out I would appreciate it
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aaronpk I couldn't find any examples of making 1:1 ratio cells using cssgrid
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aaronpk the trick is I want the cells to be flexible size depending on the width of the container
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: 1fr unit is your freinds
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aaronpk and always 20 in the row
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aaronpk I tried cssgrid but couldn't do it
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aaronpk ended up using padding-bottom:5% since padding is based on the width of the container
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aaronpk svg would have been a lot cleaner :)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: if it is for decoration/presentational purposes then SVG is better
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aaronpk it's decoration with interaction
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KartikPrabhu yup SVG then
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[kevinmarks] svg would be easier, as it has rects as a basic type
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[kevinmarks] (and circles)
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KartikPrabhu getting grid to give fixed aspect ratio is not easy
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[kevinmarks] whereas it's built into SVG
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KartikPrabhu yup
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aaronpk hm what's the trick to get an inline SVG to be a flexible size but still have its own internal dimensions
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aaronpk I thought it was viewport something
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KartikPrabhu viewbox
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KartikPrabhu everything inside the SVG is relative to the viewBox
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KartikPrabhu the SVG itself can have any size in the HTML page and its contents scale
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aaronpk viewBox
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aaronpk hi dpi screens are my friend for this
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aaronpk this solves the 1px problem I was having too
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[eddie] aaronpk: just a heads up I think something is wrong with IndieNews’ webmention endpoint: https://telegraph.p3k.io/webmention/12CEjYLhWaGdAUt87D/details
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aaronpk hm I wonder if it's confused about the two syndication values
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aaronpk no it should know about that
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[eddie] Yeah I think I’ve posted to it with more than one syndication before
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[kevinmarks] also, you can use SVG to set the y, width and height of the pixels, so you only need to specify x and fill
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: I don't understand that sentence
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