#dev 2018-03-05

2018-03-05 UTC
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[eddie] 👏
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KartikPrabhu is still gitconfused!
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KartikPrabhu git merge is weird
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radicaledlaptop what happened?
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KartikPrabhu radicaledlaptop: had conflicts and didn't know how to resolve except manually edit all the files
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KartikPrabhu but figured it out
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KartikPrabhu git is so unintuitive
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radicaledlaptop Oh yeah that's basically how you resolve conflicts. There are some gui apps for doing it but they all suck
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KartikPrabhu yeah that's what I figured
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radicaledlaptop I think there's one decent one but it costs money and I have never felt that I could justify paying for a diff util
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radicaledlaptop Sometimes I feel like git is just too unintuitive and then a client makes me use svn again...
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radicaledlaptop Does anyone in here know enough about dbus to know whether my attempt to apply it is in scope for it or not? I want to use it to fire an event whenever rsstail picks up a new rss entry. Then multiple scripts on the server could be listening for rss entry events and do processing.
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radicaledlaptop Also, let me know if the above is offtopic for in here! I'll look at the logs. Got to go for now. Good night Indie Web!
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tantek did any of that in-stream reply-context brainstorming get captured?
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tantek (on the wiki?)
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tantek.com moved /File:twitter-in-stream-reply-context.png to /File:2018-03-03-twitter-in-stream-reply-context.png "because we have lots of Twitter screenshots and they change their design every 6 mo or more"
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tantek.com edited /reply-context-examples (+239) "permalinks and in-stream, merge new Twitter in-stream example with existing Twitter examples since they were in-stream as well, keep fragment as ID" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+516) "/* Brainstorming */ Minimal text reply contexts" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reply-context-examples (-10) "/* Silo Examples */ actually, from Twitter profile page (right aaronpk?) context matters" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+89) "/* Minimal text reply contexts */ silos to start with, CASSIS function?" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+173) "/* Minimal text reply contexts */ multi-reply" (view diff)
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danq.me edited /RelMeAuth (+452) "/* Consolidated identities do not carry inherent trust */ Added support for rel="auth" so long as rel="me auth" and rel="me" are still good" (view diff)
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[gerwitz] Does anyone have a “best practice” for detecting the source of a POSSE post? E.g. the posts from OwnYourGram could be auto-tagged based on including instagram.com URLs, or based on the poster’s network address, or … ?
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[gerwitz] (I would have guessed “include a category as a matter of course” but that seems uncommon.)
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sknebel syndication URL or client id of the tool creating it would be my starting points
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GWG https://ownyourgram.com/docs
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GWG Syndication is listed as a property
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[gerwitz] indeed, I could parse that for domain name, or I can use the client id from token redemption. I’m at a loss for reasoning between depending on “instagram.com” vs. “ownyourgram.com”.
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[gerwitz] the former (parsing the syndication URL) feels right, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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GWG The syndication property would show Instagram. Do you want to give credit on individual posts to ownyourgram?
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[gerwitz] not necessarily, but I want to “route” those posts for some processing based on source. So while I lean towards syndication, if my routing needed to fix something because I disagreed with a choice (e.g. tag/category mapping) from an intermediary, maybe I’d regret that.
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[gerwitz] But unless I found a consensus here to always use client_id, I’ll probably charge ahead with the syndication url
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GWG It is unique
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sknebel if you want to fix a specific thing with how ownyourgram sends you the posts, going by client_id seems to make more sense, although I guess it's a bit moot if nothing else creates instagram posts, so go with whatever is easier I guess
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@Uxlco0 @Gnppn @darkoneko on a des solutions de commentaires autre que Disqus (staticman) mais on a surtout aujourd'hui Webmentions https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/07/so-long-disqus-hello-webmentions.html v/ @nhoizey (twitter.com/_/status/970641435178434560)
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aaronpk [gerwitz] I also recently added a field to ownyourgram that will let you set one or more category values that it will send along with each post, in case that helps with things
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[kevinmarks] just found that spiderpig doesn't get srcset links. patching that
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sknebel Zegnat had a list of all the properties that can have urls somewhere
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Zegnat I see you found my list, sknebel?
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Zegnat The link to the HTML spec broke at some update, darn, that’s what I get for not linking to a specific document version :(
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Zegnat I don’t know who sknebel was replying to (maybe [kevinmarks]?) but here are the references I used for HTML attributes that link to a separate resource: https://github.com/Zegnat/php-linkextractor/issues/9
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Loqi [Zegnat] #9 Review source for HTML attributes.
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Zegnat Actual data in the script: https://github.com/Zegnat/php-linkextractor/blob/develop/src/LinkExtractor.php#L32-L51
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@swentel Killed the webmention_io module, new module at https://github.com/swentel/indieweb : minimal microformats (more coming soon) and http://brid.gy publishing in it! (https://realize.be/notes/1219) (twitter.com/_/status/970694946796777472)
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jeremywsherman.com edited /User:Jeremywsherman.com (+238) "Add itches section with GoAccess config as initial content" (view diff)
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tantek what is detecting the source of a POSSE post
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "detecting the source of a POSSE post" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "detecting the source of a POSSE post is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek detecting the source of a POSSE post is original post discovery
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /detecting_the_source_of_a_POSSE_post (+91) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek huh I thought that was already linked
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tantek what is original post discovery
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Loqi original post discovery is a discovery algorithm for starting with a POSSE copy of a post and finding the original post https://indieweb.org/original-post-discovery
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tantek.com edited /detecting_the_source_of_a_POSSE_post (-54) "r" (view diff)
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tantek !tell [gerwitz] re: "detecting the source of a POSSE post", perhaps https://indieweb.org/original-post-discovery can help, or did you mean the other direction? PESOS?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+474) "/* Minimal text reply contexts */ special cases for github issues and comments since those are URL inspectable" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk thoughts on these minimal text reply-contexts? intention to use them in-stream: https://indieweb.org/reply-context#Minimal_text_reply_contexts
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk oh neat
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aaronpk only suggestion is that I was noticing that github tends to use the whole "username/repo" in the UI
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aaronpk both on the web and in email notifications
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tantek the one I'm not totally happy with is "Creating an issue on y" - open to suggestions
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tantek oh interesting
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I sort of have that https://kartikprabhu.com/notes except github
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aaronpk yeah, I was looking in to that yesterday when I set up github notifications into monocle
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KartikPrabhu not as detailed as your suggesstions
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aaronpk hm, i'm not sure why but I agree that "creating an issue on __" feels out of place compared to the rest
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tantek aaronpk, can you add a screenshot showing what you mean re: username/repo on web notifications UI? https://indieweb.org/reply-context-examples#Silo_Examples
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tantek also I assumed your screenshot was from your twitter profile page with replies
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tantek not the home page / home stream
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aaronpk that's correct, but it's the same in the home stream
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tantek I looked and looked and didn't see any reply-contexts in any home stream
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tantek I did see some mini threads with "show conversation"
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aaronpk huh let me see if I can find one
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aaronpk weird, found one but it's a reply to the same account
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KartikPrabhu what's we looking for?
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tantek right, more of a thread
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aaronpk no, the text "replying to __" still, in the home timeline
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tantek KartikPrabhu: examples of in-stream reply-contexts, specifically on Twitter home stream
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tantek huh
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/File:2018-twitter-home-timeline-reply-context.png
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aaronpk ooh, and another one in a quote tweet
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KartikPrabhu yeah for me replies are like the ones aaronpk showed
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tantek KartikPrabhu: in your home stream?
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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tantek quote tweet sounds interesting
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KartikPrabhu only "replying to @username" not reply-context more that that
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2018-twitter-home-timeline-quote-tweet-reply-context.png]]": nicer example" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that is a reply context
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KartikPrabhu aah sure then aaronpk has the screenshot
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tantek minimal rext reply context - that's the whole point of what we're researching - see the brainstorming link above
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aaronparecki.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2018-twitter-home-timeline-reply-context.png]]": better example - not a self-reply" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk that first darth example is particularly interesting as it's actually a retweet of a reply, and you're seeing it because it's a retweet
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tantek they're both useful
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aaronpk my second one is too
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tantek a-ha
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aaronparecki.com edited /reply-context-examples (+121) "/* Twitter home page */ add home page reply contexts" (view diff)
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tantek maybe replies only show up in the home stream when they're retweeted?
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aaronpk I think what's going on is if i'm following both people in a thread then twitter shows it as a thread
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tantek thanks for capturing it including the reply/retweet/like icons / numbers in the footer
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aaronpk and if i'm not following the person being replied to then I don't see the tweet
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tantek that's useful context
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aaronpk but if someone RTs a reply, then it shows it to provide context
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aaronpk that would explain why there are so few examples looking at my timeline
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tantek yes it's a lot of info packed into that header: who retweeted, original post author, dt-published, then reply-context, then tweet content, then link-preview, then reply/retweet/like webactions with counts!
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tantek adding text description...
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tantek.com edited /reply-context-examples (+454) "/* Silo Examples */ add text analysis / description of screenshots" (view diff)
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tantek what's annoying about twitter's in-stream reply contexts is that the "Replying to" doesn't link to anything, and the @-name in the reply context just links to that profile - which is not really useful. None of it actually links to the thing being replied to (the in-reply-to URL)
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aaronpk tantek: https://indieweb.org/File:2018-github-notification-web-ui.png https://indieweb.org/File:2018-github-email-notification.png showing github's use of "username/repo"
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tantek oh yeah, in the cluster headings
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aaronpk and sidebar
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tantek right
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+6) "/* Minimal text reply contexts */ add project owner context because GitHub does" (view diff)
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aaronpk wow making a private page that requires indieauth login is super easy now thanks to my updates to the indieauth client
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+62) "/* Minimal text reply contexts */ use more readable vars, New Issue on" (view diff)
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aaronpk aside from including the library it's about 25 lines of code, most of which are error handling
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tantek neat!
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tantek aaronpk, updated, take a look: https://indieweb.org/reply-context#Minimal_text_reply_contexts
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tantek ^^^ KartikPrabhu that's the brainstorming I was talking about
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tantek (in case you want to review)
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aaronpk "New issue on" is better!
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tantek microcopy++
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Loqi microcopy has 1 karma
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aaronpk I like it
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aaronpk I might adapt this for Monocle
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tantek the neat thing is all that is doable purely from URL inspection
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tantek no need to HTTP GET anything
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aaronpk cause it'll probably be a while before I get full reply context fetching in Monocle/Aperture
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tantek right
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tantek I'm feeling a need to cleanup the majority of my minimal reply contexts before I start putting them on the home page
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aaronpk I wish there was a way to add a "user web hook" like github's "organization web hook"
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+146) "/* improve reply-context support */ better microcopy" (view diff)
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snarfed wow, interesting. discovered a meaningful difference in mf2py output based on the underlying html parser: html5lib omits the contents of <noscript> tags; lxml includes them.
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snarfed expected, i guess, but still interesting to run into a real difference in the wild
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tantek that is interesting
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+51) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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qubyte.codes created /User:Qubyte.codes (+55) "I'm Mark S. Everitt, the author of https://qubyte.codes" (view diff)
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qubyte.codes edited /User:Qubyte.codes (+28) (view diff)
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jimpick.com edited /IRC_People (+95) "Add jimpick irc" (view diff)
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tantek jimpick: might ping kevinmarks too - he's done a bunch of experimenting with beaker/dat/fritter
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jimpick he suggested i used h-recipe for my example content i posted on fritter :-)
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jimpick i'll repost here: (cross-posted on #dat initially, then #indieweb because the topic came up) >> looking for testers: https://codemirror-multicore.glitch.me/
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jimpick original announcement from fritter https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/vn3x2Mm8/
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Zegnat 504 Gateway Time-out for me jimpick
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Zegnat Is the IRCCloud announcement JS only?!
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Dat (+310) "pagelogo; IndieWeb examples" (view diff)
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Zegnat Aa, they offer raw links for the non-JS inclined: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/raw/vn3x2Mm8
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aaronpk lol, their pastebin is a JS app?!
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aaronpk cause apparently it requires javascript to serve plain text now?
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Zegnat The noscript block links to the raw version. But because of reasons, noscript blocks do not show in my uBlock setup :(
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aaronpk there is a time and a place for javascript, and rendering plain text is not one of them
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aaronpk </rant>
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Zegnat s/uBlock/uMatrix/
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Fritter (+193) "Youtube discussion of Fritter" (view diff)
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sknebel Zegnat: uMatrix should have a switch to enable noscript tags
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Zegnat The spoof checkbox? I do not know how I never noticed that, I only remember an old issue from the bug tracker that it didn’t work. Huh
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Zegnat Seems to work, thanks for the pointer, sknebel!
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Zegnat Ah, it is in uMatrix since last December. Relatively new then and my fault for not keeping up with the issue.
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jimpick i didn't realize the irccloud pastbin links used javascript
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peterstuifzand.nl edited /User:Peterstuifzand.nl (+73) "added a few projects" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Twitpic (+133) "Twitpic.com URLS for photos apparently still resolve directly to the photo though the prior UI for the service is gone" (view diff)
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peterstuifzand.nl edited /IRC_People (+107) "add pstuifzand to ircpeople" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /chicken (+187) "article: The Silicon Valley elite’s latest status symbol: Chickens" (view diff)
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[tantek] Oh no
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chrisaldrich I built my chicken feed just in time, no?
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tantek snarfed, have you thought about POSSEing Reviews to pull requests?
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tantek e.g. right now when you're looking at a Pull request on GitHub, the Files changed tab in particular, there's a "Review changes" drop-down in the topright of the view of the diffs. Clicking it shows a "Review summary" text field, as well as radio group for ( ) Comment / ( ) Approve / ( ) Request changes, and then a "Submit review" button
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tantek feels like a natural fit for h-review
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tantek not sure how to represent the radio group tho
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tantek seems quite GitHub specific
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tantek and then when you submit a review, it looks like this:
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aaronpk h-review 😂
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aaronpk I suppose that is true!
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tantek I said that!
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tantek https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/66#pullrequestreview-101356976
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tantek there's a real world example
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tantek (author) suggested changes
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KartikPrabhu suggested changes are edit posts?
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tantek not quite. it's just a plain text field in their UI
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tantek a pull request would be an edit post :)
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tantek which is why it's more of a /review post
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tantek we may want to use this "review" feature for example for changes to mf2 parsers
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tantek feature *of GitHub*
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tantek which would be cool if we could post the reviews on/from our own sites
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tantek what is a review
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Loqi A review is an evaluation of a product or service, usually involving a written description, but can also be limited to a numerical scale https://indieweb.org/review
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tantek guess I should capture the examples and requests
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tantek whoa that's a small page
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snarfed tantek: yeah PRs are way more complicated than issues. they include git commits (a big new can of worms), comments can be on the PR or individual commits or arbitrary diff lines, etc.
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tantek snarfed, I agree about PRs being way more complicated, that's not my request
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aaronpk just the PR review is pretty simple tho
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tantek right
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tantek it's not much more than a PR comment
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aaronpk it's in reference to the whole PR, not indiviual commits
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tantek which is why I asked
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tantek and shows up like a special comment
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snarfed ah, true, sorry, caught up now
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tantek np
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tantek hmm I'm not sure about indieweb review examples being on the /h-review page
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snarfed i'm still reluctant, since reviews often include a bundle of commit- or diff-level comments, which i doubt we have good enough indieweb prior art for
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tantek feel a bit plumbing-cnetric
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snarfed i haven't done a deep dive on h-review, but i actually doubt it's a good fit
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snarfed product (etc) reviews and code reviews are not the same :P
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tantek the specific "review" that GitHub allows is very similar to a "product" review
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snarfed approved, comment, needs more work?! doesn't seem like it to me
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snarfed sure they share the same english word, but semantically, not similar
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tantek that's the only difference
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tantek and that's essentially a custom rating
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aaronpk tantek: I agree, considering the first example under indieweb examples is of a review *without* h-review markup 😂
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tantek which h-review has
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tantek aaronpk: lol oops
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snarfed eh. we can disagree. :P
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tantek snarfed, an h-review is basically a comment++ anyway
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aaronpk and my first example is also without h-review markup
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snarfed sure but that's a bit reductionist
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aaronpk so +1 to moving that whole thing to /review
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tantek though maybe an h-review is overkill
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snarfed if it truly was, we wouldn't have h-review at all, right?
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tantek snarfed, we have h-review because 2005. and it predates all notion of marking up replies/comments
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snarfed yeah, understood. i know it was a cheap shot :P
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aaronpk snarfed++ lol
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Loqi snarfed has 49 karma in this channel (364 overall)
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tantek it's ok, better we question why we still have something than just blindly accept it
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tantek notes the empty section https://indieweb.org/h-review#Why
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snarfed anyway, the commit- and diff-level comments are what hold me back. those we have not thought through in indieweb yet afaik. and they're important enough to code reviews that i'd be reluctant to ship support without them.
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tantek alright, going to mass move the examples then
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snarfed a good first step to bridgy etc support is always a good manual example with clear markup!
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tantek well I wanted to start with a real world use-case first :)
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tantek so that's what I provided above (an example on GH I'd rather have posted on my own site)
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snarfed great!
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tantek assuming that makes sense as a user-example, then use, clear markup :)
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snarfed tantek: it's a good minimal example. doesn't include diff or commit comments though.
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snarfed i look forward to someone posseing one manually, especially with some of those! :P
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aaronpk starts scheming
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aaronpk a "collection" post with a bunch of reply posts each in-reply-to a file and line number
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snarfed man i can't even imagine the workflow/UI. sounds painful.
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aaronpk my reply bookmarklet makes creating the line-number replies pretty easy
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aaronpk the trick would be collecting all the replies into a collection at the end
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snarfed not to mention replying to someone else's diff level comment
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tantek snarfed, I can't POSSE GitHub reviews manually currently as my code will automatically POSSE any such attempt as a comment using Bridgy Publish :)
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snarfed tantek: i'm confident you can fix that :P
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tantek.com edited /review (+2720) "move indieweb examples from /h-review to /review, expand silo examples, add GitHub review example, stub Why, How to, How to publish" (view diff)
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@swentel Finally got to expose webmentions in a block. Getting slower and slower to alpha state! #drupal #indieweb (https://realize.be/notes/1223) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXj3TF3VMAAlOq0.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/970797630862262272)
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tantek.com edited /h-review () "(-1255) move examples to /review, why then how to, expand both a bit" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, anything to add? https://indieweb.org/review#GitHub
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tantek starts a brainstorming section
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aaronpk i'm confused about that github ui
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aaronpk "tantek suggested changes 28 minutes ago" links to "view changes"
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tantek yeah that's bad UI
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aaronpk which do not appear to be changes by tantek
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aaronpk without any references to specific lines or commits, how is this different from a comment on the PR?
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tantek.com edited /review (+1252) "Brainstorming / POSSE to GitHub, next steps" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk the *only* difference is the explicit comment/approve/request changes tri-state
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tantek aaronpk, snarfed, braindumped: https://indieweb.org/review#POSSE_to_GitHub feel free to add / edit!
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tantek pretty raw but wanted to at least capture something
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[kevinmarks] Activity streams has verbs for this stuff, I think one of the bug db silos implemented it at one point
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tantek oh?
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[kevinmarks] http://activitystrea.ms/registry/verbs/
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[kevinmarks] Accept, reject, assign, close etc
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[kevinmarks] No rate or review though
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tantek so maybe it's different from an h-review? or maybe h-review needs more flexibility?
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tantek accept has a different meaning
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[kevinmarks] https://developer.atlassian.com/server/framework/atlassian-sdk/consuming-an-activity-streams-feed/
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tantek there is however, "approve"
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tantek "approve a travel request" is the example given, but that seems the same meaning as "approve a pull request"
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[kevinmarks] So jira will give you as apparently
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tantek example URL needed :)
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tantek oh wait this is old AS1
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[kevinmarks] Well, yes, the one with implementations
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[kevinmarks] :D
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tantek hah - they both have implementations now
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tantek just one of them is better documented (AS2 implementation report)
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[kevinmarks] True. As1 fell down on documenting
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tantek which is typically evidence of community decay / disintegration, which itself is evidence of abandonment of an open standard
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tantek hmm looks like "approve" was dropped from AS2. though "reject" is there: https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-reject
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tantek but only meaning RSVP:no
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[kevinmarks] I don't use jira - I wonder if anyone here does
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tantek what is Jira
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Jira" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Jira is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek and now I want auto-link -> blockquote support
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tantek this whole GitHub use-case is driving a bunch of new feature itches
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aaronpk getting dangerously close to markdown :)
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tantek which flavor? :P
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aaronpk github's of course :P
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tantek well I can't really disagree with "> " for blockquotes as that's what plain text email has had for ages
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tantek though that's a bit nerdy
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tantek does markdown allow indentation for quoting?
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tantek er, blockquoting
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aaronpk I think one of them turns that into pre code blocks
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KartikPrabhu which flavor? :P
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tantek ugh
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aaronpk can't remember which
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aaronpk not github tho I think
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tantek I think that's mediawiki
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tantek :P
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tantek hmm, going to try a mult-reply to a GitHub pull request and see what happens (what does my code do, what does Bridgy Publish do)
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tantek also going to test "> " in plain text to see if GitHub automatically makes them blockquotes or if they get escaped
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tantek and if they get escaped, then I know I need to "auto-link" them to <blockquote>
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[kevinmarks] Github has some arbitrary number of backticks meaning a code quote
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tantek 3
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tantek like tootsie pops
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[kevinmarks] Also some way to say what language
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tantek (also very ugly)
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tantek o rly? missed that part
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snarfed 🍿
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tantek also this will be a comment on a repo that may not have permission. this will be interesting
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aaronpk ```html
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snarfed huh, can you limit a public repo's issue comments to just members? not sure
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[kevinmarks] https://help.github.com/articles/creating-and-highlighting-code-blocks/
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aaronpk you can "lock" discussions now
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aaronpk bridgy will have to send the "> " to github in order for it to show up as a blockquote
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snarfed aaronpk: right, but that's not what this sounded like
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tantek huh, bridgy thinks it succeeded
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snarfed it did. http://tantek.com/2018/064/t1/
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] https://github.com/martinthomson wrote: > that covers more than just query() In that case, shouldn’t we re-open https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1105827, and file new dependent bugs for what is not yet implemented / covered? https://...
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snarfed er sorry, https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/66#issuecomment-370610786
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tantek and blockquotes happened, except the links to people's profiles didn't get turned into @-names
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tantek odd
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snarfed i don't know that github translates profile urls to @-s
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aaronpk I think tantek was expecting bridgy to do that 😂
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tantek no I was expecting github to do that