#dev 2018-03-11

2018-03-11 UTC
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[kevinmarks] AngeloGladding have you looked at dat?
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[eddie] In the long-term I should fix that issue, but I do like the idea of that regardless of what’s going on with my server, I can post via micropub because it goes through Amazon Lambda, which should be pretty bullet proof.
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[eddie] Anyone besides [cleverdevil] looked into AWS stuff for hosting? I’m thinking about converting my media endpoint and micropub endpoints to actually be hosted using Amazon Lambda, because when my server gets under too much stress when lately I’ve noticed sometimes it locks up.
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snarfed [eddie]: where's your storage? not on your server?
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[eddie] It is, but it’s a git repo
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snarfed ah. and upstream is somewhere else? so lambda doesn't have to talk to your server to store new posts?
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[eddie] Exactly
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snarfed and your server...pulls periodically?
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[eddie] It does
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[eddie] Every time it rebuilds
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snarfed sgtm then. hell, if it's a static site, consider porting the builds to lambda (etc) too
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[eddie] I didn’t know if Jekyll could build on lambda (haven’t looked into that yet) but that would be awesome as well
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snarfed eh or anything serverless. plenty of those options
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[eddie] Yeah that makes sense
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[eddie] Yeah, that would be pretty awesome so just spin up lambda processes to rebuild the site
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[eddie] I actually build a public and a private static site (so it takes double the time). But they aren’t dependent on each other so if lambda, the builds could happen in parallel :exploding_head:
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@keithjgrant @lonekorean Yes, and it should be webmention 👍🏻 (twitter.com/_/status/972652514255560709)
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@JmacDotOrg After observing it for weeks, I’m impressed enough with IndieWeb to make two-way Webmention support my next Plerd priority. Still obscure tech — I hadn’t heard of it before last month, anyway — but when used by a blog that implements it well, I think it could prove really cool. (twitter.com/_/status/972661922058391553)
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loqi.me created /response-context (+26) "prompted by KartikPrabhu and redirect added by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /media_fragment (+352) "/* How to */ Jon Udell experiments with clippers for HTML5 Audio, Video, and YouTube." (view diff)
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[jeremycherfas] !tell kevinmarks Bake
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel jeremycherfas: "> Read as Unicode turns it into complete rubbish" - that seems odd, how are you reading it exactly?
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sknebel cause utf-8 should be correct
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jeremycherfas Let me try again.
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sknebel unless it's read correctly, and then gets destroyed during output when you try to view the variable content?
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jeremycherfas Is there a way to know for sure the encoding of a text file?
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jeremycherfas There is a command called iconv but with the defaults it does not seem to be working as I expect.
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jjuran jeremycherfas: No, there’s no way to know for sure. A file’s contents is just a sequence of bytes.
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jeremycherfas OK, Thanks. Well, I guess I will just try some of the obvious ones.
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jjuran Though you can get pretty far with some decent heuristics.
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jjuran E.g. if it’s valid UTF-8, it’s /probably/ UTF-8.
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jeremycherfas How to test whether it is valid utf-8?
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jjuran I don’t know what the most convenient way for you to do that is, but there are clear rules for it.
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jeremycherfas Where can I find you utility jjuran?
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jjuran jeremycherfas: This is the source: https://github.com/jjuran/metamage_1/blob/master/tools/posix/utf82mac/utf82mac.cc
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jjuran You’ll need my help to walk you through building it, but it’s not hard
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jeremycherfas Let me look at iconv a bit more, then I'll get back to you.
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sknebel I just found a hint that you should be able to read utf-8 files by doing "set filecontents to do shell script "cat <filename>"" in applescript
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jeremycherfas Hmmn. I saw that before and skipped over it. I'll go an take another look. Thanks.
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jeremycherfas Sknebel++ for reminding me of a vital clue
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Loqi sknebel has 31 karma in this channel (90 overall)
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jeremycherfas A little CSS and this could all be ready for publishing
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jmac.org created /User:Jmac.org (+1666) "Created page with "Howdy. I am <span class="h-card">[http://jmac.org/ Jason McIntosh]</span>, an independent creative and software professional who lives in New England. On IRC and elsewhere, I..."" (view diff)
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jmac.org edited /IRC_People (+83) "/* Nicknames */ Adding myself (jmac)." (view diff)
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sknebel jeremycherfas: nice!
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aaronparecki.com edited /lulz (+76) "thx chrisaldrich :)" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /lulz (+55) (view diff)
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sknebel !tell snarfed: your homepage does not have h-entry, only hentry, but mf2-style properties on your posts!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk [eddie] and grantcodes do you have any thoughts on how you want to present "like" posts in your readers? I'm struggling with this in Monocle
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: why is it different from presenting them on your site?
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aaronpk good question
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aaronpk ah it's because i'm mixing two different ideas
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KartikPrabhu ?
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aaronpk showing "likes" that are actually of your own posts received via webmention, vs showing likes of things from people you're following
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KartikPrabhu aah yes those are different even on you own site no?
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aaronpk I don't have a timeline/feed view of webmentions i've received on my site
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KartikPrabhu the display of likes that you posted is different from likes of your posts from webmention
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KartikPrabhu I tend of think of a reader interface roughly as "a website where many people can post"
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KartikPrabhu so likes posted by people you're following would show up in the stream as if they are like posts
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[snarfed] sknebel: yup! backcompat. still works, if not ideal. will fix eventually.
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Loqi [snarfed]: sknebel left you a message 23 minutes ago: your homepage does not have h-entry, only hentry, but mf2-style properties on your posts!
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KartikPrabhu [snarfed]: actually no https://snarfed.org/2018-03-09_backcompat-mf2py-parallel-transport#comment-2618809 ;)
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Loqi Kartik Prabhu
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aaronpk [snarfed]: doesn't work anymore with the updated backcompat rules! the backcompat rules were meant to only convert mf1 to mf2, not support mixing them
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: ^ real life example :P
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KartikPrabhu i use the new mf2py
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aaronpk that was unexpected
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KartikPrabhu my site could not find the u-like-of under hentry which is correct
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[snarfed] yeah so I've heard. still works in practice almost everywhere fortunately. will fix eventually!
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KartikPrabhu yeah no worries just a heads up
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[snarfed] hates working on his own cms
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KartikPrabhu haha
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Loqi rofl
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[eddie] aaronpk: My most likely scenario is really just wanting a “recommended” channel or something of the like. Either done by the Microsub server or by a Microsub client service that reads all the posts and generates basically a “discovery” channel based on number of likes, bookmarks, etc.
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[eddie] Which is an idea I heard from [cleverdevil] awhile back
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[eddie] Besides that I don’t think I have a strong desire to show “likes” in themself
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aaronpk oh interesting, so you don't want any "likes" in normal channels?
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[cleverdevil] That was indeed my plan for Together.
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[cleverdevil] To have Likes not displayed in the timeline, but use them to surface things in a “Discover” view.
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk then presumably you would be seeing the liked posts in that view, rather than "so and so liked a post"?
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[cleverdevil] Yes-ish. With some context.
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[eddie] Correct, it would just be the post itself. Maybe some additional info like “liked by X people” or something
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aaronpk right
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[cleverdevil] A header or footer indicating why it showed up
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aaronpk I kind of like the idea of having that work done by an external microsub client service
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[eddie] The other option for people that MIGHT want to see them (because Indigenous isn’t just for me) is just have it display like twitter’s retweets where it’s the sub content really displaying just with a small text saying who retweeted it
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[cleverdevil] Nuzzel does this with Twitter.
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[cleverdevil] I agree, aaronpk
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[cleverdevil] Then it’s portable across readers.
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aaronpk across microsub servers even
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[cleverdevil] Indeed
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[cleverdevil] Would need the ability for Microsub servers to hide likes and bookmarks and reroute them to other channels though.
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aaronpk not if it's an external service doing it! the service just needs a way to remove a post from a channel
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[cleverdevil] Oh right.
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[cleverdevil] What is Nuzzel?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Nuzzel" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Nuzzel is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk this is a cool idea
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[eddie] It really is!
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[eddie] cleverdevil++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 19 karma in this channel (72 overall)
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[cleverdevil] Nuzzel is a service with an app that surfaces articles based upon how many of your friends like those articles. http://nuzzel.com
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Nuzzel (+157) "prompted by [cleverdevil] and dfn added by [cleverdevil]" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /Nuzzel (+1) "linkify ('x is y. <url>.' pattern)" (view diff)
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aaronpk that'd be a great place to get to, but in the mean time, I have an actual pressing need to solve displaying likes right now haha
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[cleverdevil] 😀
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[eddie] aaronpk, my actual display of them for others needs is listed above a couple messages if it helps you
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aaronpk yeah, I think that makes sense
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[cleverdevil] Personally I’d like to see unfurling of like/bookmark/repost in Together.
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aaronpk that does require that the server return the expanded post tho, which may not always be available such as if the post being liked doesn't have mf2 or such
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[eddie] That’s true
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aaronpk so we still need some display of posts where the like-of is just a URL with no extra info
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[cleverdevil] Hm yes.
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[eddie] 🤔
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aaronpk right now I have "gRegor liked a post on eddiehinkle.com" in Monocle
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aaronpk and it shows up without the like/repost/reply buttons
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aaronpk and a smaller author photo
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[eddie] That seems pretty good as a basic fallback in my mind
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-03-11-10-47-15-WL7YZwpEyO.jpg
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aaronpk I guess i'm going to need to bump up the priority of fetching permalink content in Aperture
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aaronpk if there is info about that like-of URL available in the post, then Monocle should upgrade the display of it
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[eddie] Reminds me a lot of facebook’s initial likes
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[eddie] Which is a compliment, I think they did it very well back then
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aaronpk btw I did add a method to remove an entry from a channel in Aperture already, since I found myself wanting to remove things occasionally https://github.com/indieweb/microsub/issues/25
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Loqi [aaronpk] #25 Add method to remove entries from a channel
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aaronpk hmm [eddie] I keep seeing your "this day on previous years" in my reader. should I not be following your home page but follow https://eddiehinkle.com/timeline/ instead?
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[eddie] Ohhh. I thought I removed mf2 from my homepage
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[eddie] Yeah, I would suggest following Timeline and with Microsub starting to take off I should probably find a way to suggest that move to people with a follow button at the bottom of my site
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[eddie] Ohhh I remove h-feed but not the h-entries I think
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aaronpk aha
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[eddie] Because the h-entries are powered by my templates
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[eddie] Which are used everywhere lol
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aaronpk i've had that problem too lol
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[eddie] Yep, tricky parsers
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[eddie] Lol
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aaronpk I ended up adding a parameter to my templates called "context" where I can tell the template in what context it's being used so it can turn on and off features like mf2 markup
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[eddie] Ahhhh that’s smart. I’ll have to add that to do
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[eddie] It makes me wonder, I know Bridgy has a link that allows you to point to your firehouse. I wonder if Microsub following should check for an optional link that points to a user’s primary feed page, that people could put on their identity pages
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aaronpk aperture kind of does that already
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[eddie] Oh yeah?
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aaronpk oh not quite
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aaronpk right now it looks for rss/atom feeds linked from the input URL https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-03-11-11-02-50-e4qQztVyQU.jpg
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aaronpk it would take another http request per link to do that for additional rel=feed URLs
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/rel-feed
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aaronpk bridgy uses that already
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[eddie] Yep, that’s how I direct Bridgy to my proper feeds
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aaronpk the whole search/preview thing in microsub is supposed to allow that kind of discovery
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[eddie] That’s true!
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aaronpk rather than assuming the thing the user enters is the exact URL to be followed
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[eddie] That makes sense. That something I still want to add pretty badly, the ability to “follow” from safari using indigenous’ share sheet and see a preview of the pages posts and then tell which channel to add it to
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[eddie] Is all of that working on Aperture’s side?
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aaronpk that'd be sweet
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aaronpk yeah! together uses it!
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[eddie] Excellent! One of these days I’ll have to get around to that. Because I definitely find myself hitting a hesitance in following things that I find on my iPhone because it feels combersome
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[eddie] I typically add the url to my to do list
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aaronpk clever haha
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Loqi rofl
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[eddie] Lol
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[eddie] aaronpk: I think you’re right, though! I think I’m gonna have to try that context thing, because if I can remove mf2 from my historical and featured posts, I could re-add the h-feed for the today posts.
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aaronpk that'd work!
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[eddie] It used to be that my homepage wasn’t good for following because it was essentially articles and events, but now that it shows almost all the posts of the day it’s actually a GREAT page to follow
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[eddie] The only thing it doesn’t show is media posts (watch/listen) and are/drank posts
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aaronpk that seems reasonable haha
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[eddie] Which would typically be followed anyway
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[eddie] Yep
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[cleverdevil] Oh, [aaronpk] I forgot to tell you. I put up an initial pass at JSON Schema for mf2 — https://github.com/cleverdevil/microformats2
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Loqi [cleverdevil] microformats2: Validate Microformats2 JSON with JSON Schema
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sknebel snarfed: ok, just wasn't sure due to the mf2 properties which as Kartik said aren't/shouldn't be parsed
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[eddie] *not be follow
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[eddie] Haha
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[cleverdevil] Would love some feedback 😀
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aaronpk [cleverdevil]: wait didn't we already talk about this?
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[cleverdevil] We talked about my earlier attempts. But now it actually works and has tests 😀
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aaronpk ah gotcha, last time it was just a gist, right
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[cleverdevil] Right now it just has tests for the samples on the wiki.
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[eddie] I’m thinking once some of the more immediate things are done (like Indigenous 1.0 is released), I think to build out more Microsub servers, I’m going to build an Amazon AWS based Microsub Server, using lambda functions, s3 and their db services. I’m guessing with Bridgy and (maybe woodwind?) such we have a lot of python parsing code, which lambda supports. That would definitely help to spread out the Microsub standard a bit
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[eddie] Parsing is my biggest concern, but if I’m able to utilize some pre-existing python code, that would make things easier
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[cleverdevil] Awesome, let me know if you need help [eddie].
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[cleverdevil] I'm heavily using AWS now 😄
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[cleverdevil] (I'm also a decent Python programmer, so I can help out!)
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[cleverdevil] I am working on a side project, which is a tiny Micropub server in Python that stores everything in an embedded JSON database.
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aaronpk I highly recommend getting a solid grasp on parsing done first
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aaronpk the only reason I was able to make such quick progress on Aperture was because of all the work I had done on XRay first
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[cleverdevil] I think that's good advice, to be sure!
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aaronpk (that was to eddie)
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[cleverdevil] (Which is why I'm sticking with the Micropub side for now)
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[cleverdevil] 😉
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aaronpk the major aspects of that being: HTML sanitization, the "content vs name" normalization step, and dealing with all the variations of how a list of h-entrys can be represented as a feed
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[cleverdevil] Or, eddie could just deploy an instance of XRay and use it as a webservice.
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aaronpk that's not the worst idea to bootstrap
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aaronpk of course it would be nice to have more implementations of that too, but at least that part is relatively standalone and could be replaced later
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[cleverdevil] Indeed.
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[cleverdevil] I'm really digging on the idea of separating out as many functions into separate web services at the moment.
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[cleverdevil] Having everything in one big, monolithic thing isn't the best, IMO.
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aaronpk i've had surprisingly good luck with that approach
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aaronpk I was kind of worried about overdoing the whole "microservices" thing, but it's ended up working quite well for a few years now
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[cleverdevil] (FWIW, one of the reasons I am building out this JSON Schema for MF2 JSON is that it enables you to use the AWS API Gateway and include validation).
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[cleverdevil] At least... theoretically.
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[snarfed] debugging/introspection can suffer, and performance for anything latency sensitive, but architecture and maintenance wise, microservices can definitely work
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[cleverdevil] Indeed, and the latency problem can be reduced by enabling different services to be deployed together inside a single process.
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[cleverdevil] (With local calls)
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[snarfed] .... which then reduces some benefits of decoupling, but agreed
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[kevinmarks] Showing multiple likes on a post sounds like h-review-aggregate
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Loqi [kevinmarks]: [jeremycherfas] left you a message 12 hours, 56 minutes ago: Bake
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aaronpk except likes are not reviews
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[kevinmarks] Well, the way nuzzel does it makes them more like reviews. I suppose you'd need dislikes to aggregate a rating, yes.
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mylesb.ca created /User:Mylesb.ca (+74) "Created page with "Hi, I'm <span class="h-card">[https://mylesb.ca Myles Braithwaite]</span>!"" (view diff)
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[eddie] [cleverdevil] that’s awesome! Definitely will keep you updated as I think things through with that. I was at a work conference this week and was hearing about the ways my work is using AWS, and then when my Jekyll running on my cloud server made my Aperture and Micropub endpoints stop working for a couple minutes I realized my single server running isn’t the best, and I realized it would be great to maintain a small cloud server but to host
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[eddie] AWS components. At least for awhile, it’s something that’s peaked my interest
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[cleverdevil] cattle, cattle, cattle!
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[cleverdevil] Yes, I am determined to get away from having a "pet" server eventually 🙂
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[eddie] Lol! Yep!
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[eddie] Also, in regard to Microsub, it would solve all sorts of scaling problems.
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KartikPrabhu what is scaling?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "scaling" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "scaling is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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KartikPrabhu what is scale?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "scale" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "scale is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel always a bit uneasy about cloudy stuff due to (lack of) price limits
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[eddie] That’s true, it’s a risk
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[eddie] But this stuff is so cheap!
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[cleverdevil] Understandable, however, its pretty trivial these days to put in restrictions that cause services to stop after a threshold is reached.
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sknebel does AWS have that now?
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[cleverdevil] Also, yes, its pretty cheap.
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[cleverdevil] Pretty much always has, you just have to know how to set it up.
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[cleverdevil] Like most things with AWS its... not straightforward 😛
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KartikPrabhu cheap in terms of money but not for admin
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[cleverdevil] Not hard, just not easy to understand at first.
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[cleverdevil] I find it a lot easier to maintain lambdas than to constantly admin a server.
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sknebel also: cheap compared to what? E.g. traffic is *insanely* expensive
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[cleverdevil] Keep its OS up to date, etc.
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[eddie] I’m also in extreme need of an email to feed service. I wasn’t sure how to handle incoming email like that. But I think my first AWS project is going to be using amazon’s email service to allow emails sent to specific random id strings to be displayed as part of an h-feed or RSS feed via a url of the same id
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sknebel been considering lambda for backend-ish tasks too, since that is cheap and a very interesting model, but other things don't seem that attractive *to me*
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[cleverdevil] Ah, an *inbound* email to feed service.
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, that's pretty easy with AWS.
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[eddie] Yeah, inbound email to feed. And definitely I was reading up on it last night and you basically just send all emails for a domain to SES and then set up a catch all to a lambda function
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[eddie] Then API gateway to lambda that reads the feed
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[eddie] Earlier I was trying to figure out how to set it up using Node.js on my server and I wasn’t getting anywhere with it
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[cleverdevil] Yup.
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aaronpk haha I also want an email-to-feed service
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Loqi aaronpk: lol
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aaronpk was just thinking about how i'd do that myself. it's not a lot of traffic so would be a pretty small component to add to my server, as long as I had some other email provider accepting the email.
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aaronpk TIL mailgun runs a postbin service http://bin.mailgun.net/
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aaronpk I must say, while attempting to subscribe to a bunch of people, it's very disheartening how poor the mf2 markup on wordpress blogs is, especially compared to the same wordpress sites' XML or JSON feeds.
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aaronpk it's getting to the point where i'll recognize a wordpress site based on the types of feed options I see when subscribing from Together, and I'll choose the JSONfeed or XML feed over the microformats page because I know the microformats on it won't give a good result at all
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[snarfed] but maybe not anymore :(
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[snarfed] yup very true. built in mf1 is ok, not mf2. really only the sempress theme has halfway decent mf2. hence thank god for backcompat, even for me... at least historically
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GWG aaronpk: That's because no one knows what microformats are. They just keep copying the incorrect implementation
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GWG And when I update a theme, even I miss things
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Loqi misses things too
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+1) "rephrase to third person" (view diff)
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