#dev 2018-03-30

2018-03-30 UTC
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tantek.com
edited /othering (+191) "note literal example of "other"ing, fix see also note"
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voxpelli_, wagle, j12t, oodani, treora, raucao, GWG, strugee, KevinMarks_ and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
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[cleverdevil]
I just got my first proper IndieAuth authorization working on AWS Lambda 😄
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[cleverdevil]
Quill -> PunyAuth running on Lambda
tbbrown, schmarty, eli_oat[m], zoglesby, plindner, myfreeweb, mindB, renem, grantcodes, neil1, globbot and [miklb] joined the channel
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aaronpk
cleverdevil++ nice
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Loqi
cleverdevil has 22 karma in this channel (78 overall)
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aaronpk
sknebel: what about what about items that changed? can't find context
plindner, myfreeweb, grantcodes, eli_oat[m], schmarty, zoglesby, mindB, AngeloGladding, snarfed and kaushalmodi joined the channel
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kaushalmodi
Regarding https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-03-28/1522219621938400, should u-url be added to the h-entry inside h-feed?
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Loqi
[[kaushal_modi]] I'll add that tomorrow. May be http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed should be updated with that info?
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aaronpk
not sure of the full context, but yes in general each h-entry in an h-feed should include u-url of its permalink
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KartikPrabhu
or a u-uid
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Loqi
[mblaney] the only reason I mentioned your h-feed is that I tried subscribing to it in my reader and it didn't display any posts because there were no u-url's on the h-entry's.
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kaushalmodi
mblaney is unable to fetch the h-entry posts from h-feed
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kaushalmodi
mblaney: I now have h-feed > h-entry > u-url. Does the feed fetching now work better?
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kaushalmodi
meta question.. how is each user's handle hyperlinked to their domain? (I see those hyperlinked handles on chat.indieweb.org). How do I associate my handle to my domain?
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kaushalmodi
KartikPrabhu++ Thanks I added myself there. But still I don't see the hyperlink.
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Loqi
kartikprabhu has 16 karma in this channel (189 overall)
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kaushalmodi
OK, messaged too soon. Now I see it :)
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scripter.co
created /User:Scripter.co (+761) "New page"
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kaushalmodi
!tell cweiske Can you please check if commentpara.de is loading for you? It times out for me.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove
It's down for me too, kaushalmodi
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@aaronpk
Had a great time at the @pdxnode meetup tonight! Here are some of the resources I talked about! https://indieweb.org https://indieweb.org/webmention Okta APIs which I used to log in to my website https://developer.okta.com https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org… https://aaronparecki.com/2018/03/29/46/pdxnode
(twtr.io/1cCEwdPQZVb)
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Zegnat
Oh boy! I just spotted aaronpk did release an alpha for php-mf2 :D Good stuff
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Loqi
cweiske: kaushalmodi left you a message 1 hour, 47 minutes ago: Can you please check if commentpara.de is loading for you? It times out for me.
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cweiske
kaushalmodi: thanks - fixed.
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cweiske
I've got RAM problems on my server lately. the VPS always gets "privvmpages" to the limit, although linux says there is still enough ram
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@kevinmarks
↩️ Posting on your own site, POSSEd to twitter and using http://brid.gy to turn the replies on twitter into webmentions works rather well - not sure if it catches replies to replies though #Indieweb
(twtr.io/1cCT6Kk0EiC)
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mblaney
kaushalmodi yes my reader is picking up the u-url's now. fetching was ok, it's just skipped entries without a link.
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mblaney
you can see the result at: https://unicyclic.com/indieweb (at least for the moment)
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mblaney
I should add support to my reader for p-summary though.
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sknebel
!tell aaronpk if a microsub server sees a post has been updated (e.g. it gets a websub notification about that), how does it tell the microsub client about that happening?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@marcthiele
↩️ Nothing special really. I use @getkirby to run my site and then webmentions, which you can read about at the #indieweb site. Also check for a possible @indiewebcamp on Brasil.
(twtr.io/1cCh2kCH7yw)
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@marcthiele
↩️ Nothing special and exactly what is written in the bridgy documentation. One line of code in the header and then one line to integrate the webmentions below your post (plus the styling you want to use of course)
(twtr.io/1cChRiTi1gL)
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@kevinmarks
↩️ I agree that we don't need to keep reinventing protocols. DNS and web serving are decentralized and robust. We can layer protocols on top for social subscription and notification - WebPub, WebMention and more #indieweb ones
(twtr.io/1cCjCLGcRyR)
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[kaushal_modi]
mblaney: Thanks for the test! The only thing remaining is the p-name parsing now. Zegnat++ and aaronpk++ have updated the php-mf2 library to support HTML5 too. The pin13.net/mf2 site has also be updated to use the updated library and so now https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscripter.co parses the p-name in h-feed correctly.
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[kaushal_modi]
cweiske++ Thanks, that site is up now. May you find a true fix for that soon :)
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Loqi
cweiske has 32 karma in this channel (134 overall)
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loqi.me
created /VRM (+190) "prompted by schmarty and dfn added by [kevinmarks]"
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@klandwehr
Does anyone know if you can set up #IndieAuth in the #Asocial blogging platform?
(twtr.io/1cD4BQLdedh)
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Zegnat
What is asocial?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "asocial" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "asocial is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel
ok, *something* works with my microsub bridge
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sknebel
!tell grantcodes: together sees the channel list from my microsub server, but I can't switch channels away from the notification channel and it appears as if it doesn't even send requests to get the timeline for those when I try
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
you can try out monocle too
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Loqi
aaronpk: sknebel left you a message 6 hours, 12 minutes ago: if a microsub server sees a post has been updated (e.g. it gets a websub notification about that), how does it tell the microsub client about that happening?
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sknebel
ah, didn't remember that's available too
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sknebel
what is monocle?
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Loqi
Monocle is an open source IndieWeb-enabled reader developed by Aaron Parecki https://indieweb.org/Monocle
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Monocle (+25) "add link"
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aaronpk
good question. there isn't a mechanism for that right now. it kind of assumes clients are "dumb" and only cache the data they get from the microsub server.
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[cleverdevil]
Speaking of microsub... I was visiting [snarfed] in SF earlier this week, and got into a discussion about some things I'd like to be able to add to Together, [aaronpk].
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[cleverdevil]
One thing I'd love is the ability to show interactions (replies, reposts, likes, etc.) on items in the timeline.
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aaronpk
absolutely
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[cleverdevil]
Was curious if you have any early thoughts about that?
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aaronpk
yeah sorta, just decided to bump that down on the priority list in order to get something out the door
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[cleverdevil]
I was thinking it'd be good for Microsub to make it clear to readers whether or not a particular item has interactions (or even supports interactions).
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aaronpk
the "easy" version is the microsub server should fetch the permalinks of the posts and check if the posts are reporting any comments/likes/etc
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[cleverdevil]
It seems to me that the reader should likely be able to ask the Microsub server to fetch the latest interactions on-demand.
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aaronpk
but I skipped fetching post permalinks entirely for the first version of Aperture in order to speed up development
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[cleverdevil]
It wouldn't be a very good experience if interactions were only updated as items are fetched in the normal update mechanisms.
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[cleverdevil]
Makes sense.
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aaronpk
yeah I want to think through how I want to implement that sort of on-demand fetching before jumping in
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aaronpk
i'm worried about making a quick decision that I regret later
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[cleverdevil]
Good to know you've been thinking about it 🙂
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[cleverdevil]
And, fair warning, I'm starting to think about how to do private information sharing!
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aaronpk
I found a draft wiki page about the authentication bit of that the other day
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[cleverdevil]
Was thinking it might be cool to be able to share via syndicate-to.
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[cleverdevil]
So that people could create channels in their microsub servers that can be published to via micropub.
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[cleverdevil]
Does that make sense?
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aaronpk
not sure how that relates to syndicate-to
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aaronpk
aperture channels are already micropub endpoints :D
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sknebel
huh, same error in monocle
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sknebel
I must be missing something
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[cleverdevil]
So, the idea would be that when I publish something, I could make it private in my website, but toggle syndication to a friend or family member's microsub server.
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aaronpk
oh funny
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aaronpk
I hadn't considered writing to channels as something that could be done by other people
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[cleverdevil]
I like it conceptually, but the downside is that you'd have to have syndicate-to defined for all "friends".
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[cleverdevil]
Which is sort of... not ideal 🙂
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aaronpk
yeah probably doesn't make sense with the literal syndicate-to UI
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aaronpk
conceptually that actually sounds a lot like activitypub
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[cleverdevil]
Yeah, probably right.
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aaronpk
the more webby version of that is that you create either a separate feed where posts to friends-only show up and it requires authentication to view, or your main feed shows additional items when fetched with authentication
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[cleverdevil]
Yeah, I am trying to avoid requiring a bunch of changes to CMSes to allow them to participate
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aaronpk
hm, well using syndicate-to will likely also require CMS changes
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aaronpk
this is my latest attempt at that sort of server-to-server authentication for fetching private feeds https://indieweb.org/server-indieauth
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sknebel
aahh, found it. apparently uid's can't just be plain URLs, they have to be urlencoded...
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aaronpk
sknebel: hm the value should be allowed to be a URL
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aaronpk
but you'd need to urlencode it in requests of course
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sknebel
well, neither together nor monocle can deal with that
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aaronpk
hm that's not good
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sknebel
(afk, dinner)
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[snarfed]
sknebel++ for building a microsub bridge!
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Loqi
sknebel has 33 karma in this channel (92 overall)
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aaronpk
sknebel: is your bridge something I can get running in order to figure out why monocle can't handle the URL uids?
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tantek
from #indieweb - aaronpk prompting me about my indie event posts
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sknebel
aaronpk: hm, not so easy right now. I can make a dummy that shows the problem if you want, but it seems pretty clear that uid's with slashes in them are the problem
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tantek
since my event posts are cloned (codewise) from my article posts, they support full arbitrary markup in the e-content
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aaronpk
sknebel: okay guess I can try tweaking aperture to include slashes then
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tantek
by convention I include venues by mf2 markup inside the e-content
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tantek
e.g. <a class="u-location h-card" href="https://wiki.mozilla.org/SF">Mozilla San Francisco</a>
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Loqi
Mozilla San Francisco
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tantek
I realized I didn't need venue support myself, as long as I could link to a canonical venue page
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tantek
that's how I was able to postpone venue support of my own
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tantek
and then I hacked up the venue equivalent of a nicknames cache, keyed by venue URL
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tantek
and mapped to e.g. Twitter @-name equivalent
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tantek
and then I wrote custom POSSE to Twitter code for my indie events that posts an semi-structured event summary to Twitter, with the venue @-name serving as a convenient text-readable @-venue = "at venue"
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@t
Event: Homebrew Website Club SF At: 2017-06-28 17:30 @MozSF More: http://tantek.com/e/4p51
(twtr.io/1TEmrfz0SXU)
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aaronpk
I like including more info about the venue than just the name, like the address, in order to have a map show up
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tantek
which I later changed from "More: " to "RSVP: " once I was able to accept and show RSVPs
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aaronpk
and entering all that info by hand each time is too much work
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tantek
aaronpk, in my approach, I would add that to my venue cache
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tantek
along side the venue's @-name, the address
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aaronpk
yeah, I need a venue cache :)
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tantek
hmm I should totally do that
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tantek
my cache is pretty small now so it's just a PHP array constant in my POSSEing code
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tantek
*venue cache
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tantek
aaronpk, so that's how I got away with it minimally, just a URL field for venue for me to manually enter, and then the rest is automatic from the code
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tantek
right now it's not a big deal to manually add one entry at a time every time I post an indie event for a new (first time for me) venue
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tantek
I need a map view in my events for sure
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tantek
that's been an itch for a while
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tantek
hmm I wonder if I can code that by next week
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aaronpk
oh damn, I didn't notice that silopub truncated my tweet last night
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aaronpk
it counted wrong since both quill and twitter said there were 5 chars left
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sknebel
aaronpk: there is a dummy server for your testing purposes running at http://svenknebel.de:8089/microsub (accepts any token), I can send you the code too
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aaronpk
oh thanks
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[miklb]
I’ve been out of the loop for the past week or so, is there a websub server yet that’s open to accounts for using a client with?
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tantek
oooh I wonder if indie events POSSEd to Twitter should stash the event lat/long into the tweet location
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tantek
thoughts?
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tantek
I mean, if I'm tracking this info, might as well put it there right?
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sknebel
[miklb]: I think for now the protocol is still "ask nicely here and hope someone gives you an account", there is no officially open server
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aaronpk
sknebel: thanks! I think I fixed it
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aaronpk
I forgot that I was using the channel UID as a path component of the URL in monocle
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GWG
aaronpk, worth implementing venue support as a Micropub server extension?
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aaronpk
GWG: yeah i'm hoping to, not sure where that falls on my priority queue tho
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sknebel
GWG: yeah, lookups like that have been proposed a few times but I don't know any implementation (tags, nicknames, venues are the ones that come to mind)
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tantek
aaronpk, what's better to put in a venue cache? address (street, locality, region), or latlong?
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aaronpk
both really
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sknebel
why not both?
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aaronpk
address for human-readable, latlong to be able to easily put a dot on a map
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aaronpk
converting latlng to address is ambiguous at best, and converting an address to latlng is expensive (sometimes actual money)
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tantek
aaronpk, what is the use case for each?
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tantek
if it's just map/directions display (ala /event ) then address is sufficient right?
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tantek
what does the tweet API need or can take for location info?
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aaronpk
pretty sure twitter accepts lat/lng only
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aaronpk
i like showing a map preview on my website, so i need to either store the latlng, or generate the map once from the address lookup and store the image
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tantek
aaronpk I've seen tweets with named venues though
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tantek
which they seem to get from the Foursquare API
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tantek
hmm I want some simple code to generate a map view
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aaronpk
they use place_id or lat/lng or both
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tantek
is the place_id the *foursquare* place_id? or do they map to some internal place_id?
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aaronpk
if you want a JS map take a look at leaflet, they have some pretty simple code
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tantek
yeah that might be easiest / least impactful serverside in terms of perf
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tantek
and fallback to a Google maps link in case of NoJS
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tantek
which I believe are fairly easily constructable
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tantek
I mean from the address
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aaronpk
i think q works with an address too
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tantek
I dislike lat long for Google maps links because to human in cities it's often ambiguous
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tantek
especially in multifloor buildings
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tantek
in fact IMO Google maps links with a lat long are a bit of a UI anti-pattern
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aaronpk
agreed
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loqi.me
edited /blockchain (+226) "tantek added "2018-03-29 Futurism: [https://futurism.com/mailchimp-is-shutting-down-ico-and-blockchain-related-emails-and-people-are-freaking-out/ Mailchimp is Shutting Down ICO and Blockchain-related Emails, and People Are Freaking Out]" to "See Also""
(view diff)
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tantek
in answer no - twitter place_id is not even close to same / similar to Foursquare's hex ids
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tantek
I'm wondering if Twitter is just creating place_ids on demand and has a mapping from their place_id to Fousquare's
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sknebel
snarfed: add that snippet to the /Twitter page, which doesn't seem to mention granary at all yet?
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snarfed
sure, will add to my list
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Loqi
[gRegor Morrill] Facebook, I have never even heard of these organizations much less been a customer. I manually removed at least 100 of these from my Ad Preferences page recently and now there are these 15. What are you doing?
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skippy
http://what3words.com/ is a clever way to handle addressing.
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sknebel
yeah, the idea is clever. not a fan of them trying to make business out of it though
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kaushalmodi
skippy: I'm a fan of https://plus.codes/
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skippy
neat.
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loqi.me
created /.eu (+29) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek"
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skippy
boo: the Twitter export uses t.co links in the "source" field, and derefernces them in a separate "expanded_urls" field.
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kaushalmodi
About plus codes, forgot to add that that example showed just Newyork; you can zoom down to a city block level resolution by adding the trailing 2 characters
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kaushalmodi
+1 to that boo
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tantek
what3words sounds proprietary though
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tantek
also horribly English-centric goodness sakes
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kaushalmodi
One last thing about + codes: *if* you use Google Maps, you can long press on any location (Android app at least) to get that point's plus code
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kaushalmodi
very useful when coordinating with friends in an unknown city
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snarfed
skippy: yup welcome to the twitter API
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sknebel
tantek: what3words is in 22 languages already, so they are thinking aobut that
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snarfed
granary handles all that. also auto links them in its output HTML, as well as @-mentions, hashtags, etc
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aaronpk
xray can do that too in case you want another option :)
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snarfed
diversity++ yes!
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Loqi
diversity has 2 karma in this channel (5 overall)
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aaronpk
you can pass XRay tweet JSON and it'll give you a nice microformats2 JSON object
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aaronpk
it does all the photo/video URL wrangling too
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sknebel
(although it is 22 different dictionaries, not one that's directly translateable in all 22 languages)
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skippy
is xray standalone for this? i thought xray was a library
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tantek
sknebel: indeed - it would have been more interesting if they had treated it like a chance for a modern multilingual rosetta stone
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sknebel
skippy: xray is an API and a library. so you can run an xray server, or use aaronpks one, and query that, or integrate it into a PHP program
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tantek
ok so there's a chance to improve on it
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tantek
(on the positive side)
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snarfed
skippy: both granary and xray are both libs and hosted REST services
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Loqi
[aaronpk] XRay: X-Ray returns structured data from any URL
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[kim_landwehr]
Asocial is a markdown-based, Dropbox-enable website hosting which is still in beta.
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kaushalmodi
snarfed: granary.io looks so much like brid.gy. No wonder you created that too! :)
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kaushalmodi
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 54 karma in this channel (373 overall)
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snarfed
thanks kaushalmodi! heh yes i'm mediocre (if not worse) at design and UI
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skippy
thank you, aaronpk and snarfed.
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sknebel
what is Asocial?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Asocial" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Asocial is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel
[kim_landwehr]: now say the definition again ;)
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[kim_landwehr]
Asocial is a markdown-based, Dropbox-enable website hosting which is still in beta.
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loqi.me
created /Asocial (+110) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by [kim_landwehr]"
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[kim_landwehr]
Thanks @sknebel, saw the question as I was scrolling, not sure how to handle it
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tantek
sknebel: ah got it - now reading more at https://what3words.com/about/
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tantek
aaronpk, as a geo expert, WDYT of this "The square size of 3m x 3m is consistent across the globe" - from what I know I have a hard time understanding how that's possible in any reasonable transformation / projection
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tantek
unless they're redefining "meter" lol
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: yeah that is not possible/bad wording. There are equal-area projections but they will distort the shape of a square
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KartikPrabhu
i.e. there is no isometry from a 2-sphere to the 2-plane ;)
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sknebel
they optimize it for correctness in longitudes <85°
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sknebel
and it's not a strict grid
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KartikPrabhu
right it can't be :P
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sknebel
so there is offsets between the "rows"
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tantek
sknebel ugh that is really ugly then
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sknebel
very much a black box for these specific constraints
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tantek
so likely dead
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gRegorLove
This didn't age well. digg.com's discussion page about digital rot didn't last 3 years: https://gregorlove.com/2015/10/what-is-digg-going-to/
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Loqi
[gRegor Morrill] What is Digg going to do to make sure this link (this discussion) still exists in 5 years?
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skippy
are there instructions somewhere for using Granary to get ALL my tweets? using the site, I get back to November 2017.
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tantek
gRegorLove: probably worth capturing in /longevity or /site-deaths
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tantek
skippy: better to use Twitter's own export functions
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tantek
what is how to export
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Loqi
export (specifically, How to export your data) in the context of the indieweb refers to the ability to download some or all of your data from a site, typically from a silo, though also for CMS or site migration https://indieweb.org/how_to_export
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tantek
should be links there ^^^
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snarfed
agreed. skippy: you can page in granary, but it's not designed to get a full archive
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skippy
i used the Twitter archive, and have JSON and CSV representations. Can I feed all that JSON to Granary somehow?
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Loqi
[snarfed] for granary, it's just `microformats2.object_to_html(twitter.Twitter().tweet_to_object(tweet_json))` for each tweet
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skippy
oh. thanks. i'll give that a try.
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skippy
snarfed: my Python-fu is very weak. Can I pester you for some additional hand holding?
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[cleverdevil]
For the curious: here is how I deployed an IndieAuth Python app on Lambda: https://cleverdevil.io/2018/going-serverless-with-python-wsgi-apps
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Loqi
[Jonathan LaCour] Going Serverless with Python WSGI Apps
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snarfed
skippy: sure! busy right now but i can reply async
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aaronpk
google is shutting down goo.gl, but thankfully keeping all the URLs alive https://developers.googleblog.com/2018/03/transitioning-google-url-shortener.html
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skippy
`ValueError: time data '2009-01-31 00:00:00 +0000' does not match format '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Y'`
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sknebel
can you post the full stacktrace somewhere?
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sknebel
ugh, do they seriously use a different format than in the API for the export?
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radedwork
wow firebase dynamic links sound like a principal of least surprise disaster
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radedwork
principle* (I can English good)
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gRegorLove
what is goo.gl?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "goo.gl" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "goo.gl is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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skippy
sknebel: these are from 2009, likely they changed a lot along the way, and never applied the new formats to the old data.
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gRegorLove
goo.gl is Google's URL shortener that is shutting down 2018-04-13, though all existing short URLs will continue to redirect https://developers.googleblog.com/2018/03/transitioning-google-url-shortener.html
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loqi.me
created /goo.gl (+233) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove"
(view diff)
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[kevinmarks]
I went through a lot of this geo stuff earlier this week. Leaflet is very easy, and has a great choice of image tile sources. What3words is worse in every way than geo urls. If you want a good name to lat long service or vice versa use foursquare
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[snarfed]
skippy: ugh yeah, try with a newer export
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skippy
snarfed: this is an export from today. the posts are from 2009.
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skippy
i could always try to massage the created_at date in the object before feeding it to tweet_to_object, I suppose...
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[kevinmarks]
The pre 2009 dates are broken in the export . You may be able to fix them by looking up the tweet I'd at twitter
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snarfed
ah ok skippy. interesting. thanks [kevinmarks]!
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skippy
oh, interesting. even the tweets from 2018 in this export have the same date format as the 2009 ones: "created_at" : "2018-03-01 14:24:51 +0000",
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snarfed
yeah and the API always returns "Tue Mar 21 20:50:14 +0000 2006" , both pre and post 2009 (ie ctime format)
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snarfed
so the export may be a different format entirely than API
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snarfed
i have an old export from 2013, looking now
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snarfed
skippy: are they still in data/js/tweets/YYYY_MM.js files?
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snarfed
looks like they are normal API objects, only the dates are different. weird.
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skippy
snarfed: yes
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[kevinmarks]
The old ones are all at midnight iirc
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skippy
yes; and the date has dashes instead of spaces as expected by Granary
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snarfed
confirmed, only the dates are different, everything else works. i can whip up a fix now
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skippy
sweet. thanks!
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snarfed
ok skippy, i've pushed the fix. try reinstalling with pip install -e git+git@github.com:snarfed/oauth-dropins.git#egg=granary
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snarfed
(tested locally)
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skippy
same error...
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snarfed
odd. feel free to post one tweet from your archive and i can double check
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snarfed
oh sorry, that pip install was wrong
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skippy
Obtaining granary from git+git@github.com:snarfed/oauth-dropins.git#egg=granary Cloning git@github.com:snarfed/oauth-dropins.git to ./src/granary Running setup.py (path:/Users/smerrill/Downloads/twitter/src/granary/setup.py) egg_info for package granary produced metadata for project name oauth-dropins. Fix your #egg=granary fragments.
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snarfed
right, heh. try pip install -e git+git@github.com:snarfed/granary.git#egg=granary
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skippy
thought i did...
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snarfed
slightly different cmd
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snarfed
s/oauth-dropins/granary/
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skippy
huzzah!
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skippy
it worked. Thank you!
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snarfed
yay! welcome!
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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aaronpk
sknebel: out of curiosity, why did you end up using URLs for the channel uids?
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aaronpk
hm something's going wrong with my granary jsonfeed conversion again
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aaronpk
it's adding a title for my notes which have the <br> whitespace removed
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[snarfed]
ruh roh. about to get in the car, but feel free to fill an issue!
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sknebel
aaronpk: I'm not using urls strictly, but inoreader uses something that looks like a URL path as their id's for channels
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sknebel
and I wanted to just pass these through
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aaronpk
ah okay
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sknebel
dealing with feeds that are not in channels is something I'll have to figure out, not sure what I want to do there. either synthesize a catchall channel, or turn each of them into their own channel. UI and model just don't match up, at least with the microsub readers we have now