#dev 2018-03-29

2018-03-29 UTC
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gRegorLove Is it actual webmentions or pingbacks upgraded to webmentions?
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[cleverdevil] I've found a nice way to easily run my IndieAuth server as an AWS Lambda through the API gateway;
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[cleverdevil] Should also work, theoretically, with the Micropub server, too, though I'll have to come up with a different solution for storage.
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david.shanske.com edited /Planning (-170) "/* Los Angeles */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Planning (-89) "/* MIT */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /Planning (+10) "/* NYC */" (view diff)
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eli_oat[m] That is awesome cleverdevil!
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eli_oat[m] gRegoreLove I think it is a legit webmention, but Iā€™m not 100% certain. Is there an easy way to determine the dif?
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aaronpk webmention.io doesn't store that unfortunately, heh
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aaronpk if the site is a relatively bland wordpress site it's probably a pingback
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aaronpk out of curiousity, is it tracking.feedpress.it?
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aaronpk i've been getting a *bunch* of stuff from that site in the last few days. all the links are redirects with a bunch of utm params
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aaronpk I want to block that domain for sure
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tantek hmm redirects with utms? sounds sketch
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aaronpk very
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aaronpk it's certainly not new content. I wonder if there's some technique to dedupe these
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tantek it sounds like a possible spam vector
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tantek nevermind de-duping
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aaronpk wait a sec
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aaronpk I saw this in monocle, *not* in my webmention notification channel
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aaronpk what is feedpress
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Loqi FeedPress is an independently run FeedBurner alternative for podcast and blog feeds https://indieweb.org/FeedPress
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aaronpk in feedpress' RSS feed, feedpress changes the URL of each entry to the feedpress.it tracking URL instead
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tantek like tcoing
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tantek "for analytics" likely
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk tracking.feedpress.it -> "Feed analytics done right"
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aaronpk wow what a mess
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aaronpk so this has nothing to do with webmention apparently
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aaronpk incidentally I *did* get a webmention from this particular post, it just also showed up in another channel because I am also following that feed
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[kaushal_modi] What is utm?
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Loqi utm_ is a commonly used prefix for URL query parameters used for tracking (like utm_medium utm_source utm_campaign) by various media and content publishing sites; it is considered good URL design to automatically drop them when publishing, sharing, or just linking to a URL that has them https://indieweb.org/utm
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tantek.com edited /othering (+218) "fix dfn, relate to indieweb, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /othering (-13) "trim a bit" (view diff)
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aaronpk well this is delightful :-) https://www.sitewriter.net
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aaronpk gerwitz++
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Loqi gerwitz has 1 karma
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loqi.me created /free_as_in_facebook (+398) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek free as in facebook << 2015-03-09 Enrico Zini: [https://www.enricozini.org/blog/2015/free-as-in-facebook/ Free as in Facebook]
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Loqi ok, I added "2015-03-09 Enrico Zini: [https://www.enricozini.org/blog/2015/free-as-in-facebook/ Free as in Facebook]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /free_as_in_facebook
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loqi.me edited /free_as_in_facebook (+123) "tantek added "2015-03-09 Enrico Zini: [https://www.enricozini.org/blog/2015/free-as-in-facebook/ Free as in Facebook]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek free as in facebook << Facebook
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Facebook]]" to the "See Also" section of /free_as_in_facebook
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tantek Facebook << free as in facebook
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Loqi ok, I added "[[free as in facebook]]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
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loqi.me edited /free_as_in_facebook (+89) "tantek added "https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%22free%20as%20in%20facebook%22" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /Atom (+415) "/* Comments */ link davis atom feed with comments" (view diff)
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cweiske !tell jeremycherfas please try if that fixes your atom feed: https://github.com/cweiske/grav-plugin-feed/commit/014c089b3b30d44b2fcafe285a448460cd2ae641
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat The escape filter was already there? Oof
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Zegnat As in, was already available.
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jeremych_ Hi loqi
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jeremych_ Are you going to give me my message from cweiske ?
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jeremych_ !tell cweiske I am checking now.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat Probably now with that alternative username, jeremych_
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jeremych_ Yet another annoyance.
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jeremycherfas !tell cweiske Yes, that fixed it. Thank you. I will say something on github.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi jeremycherfas: cweiske left you a message 26 minutes ago: please try if that fixes your atom feed: https://github.com/cweiske/grav-plugin-feed/commit/014c089b3b30d44b2fcafe285a448460cd2ae641
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cweiske I'll simply make a pull request
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Loqi cweiske: jeremych_ left you a message 11 minutes ago: I am checking now.
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Loqi cweiske: jeremycherfas left you a message 6 minutes ago: Yes, that fixed it. Thank you. I will say something on github.
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jeremycherfas Super. Cweiske++
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jeremycherfas Cweiske++ for very useful help.
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Loqi cweiske has 31 karma in this channel (133 overall)
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cweiske jeremycherfas, how do you receive/display comments in grav?
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cweiske a special plugin?
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jeremycherfas No. Although there is one by perlkonig, it doesn't normalise the data. I worked with aaronpk last year at Nurnberg to try and get it to use Xray, but never quite managed it. In the end I use the heroku app.
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jeremycherfas And I send manually via Telegraph.
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cweiske webmention.herokuapp.com?
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jeremycherfas Yes.
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cweiske do you download them regularly, or embed via javascript?
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jeremycherfas I embed via javascript.
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cweiske too bad. I'm thinking about adding comment information to the grav atom feed, but that's not possible if they are loaded via js
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jeremycherfas The perlkonig plugin downloads to a folder in /data but became problematical for me because the data received were very inconsistent.
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jeremycherfas I'd love to get the perlkonig plugin to use xray to parse the data, and that's one of the motivations for me embarking on a proper PHP course, which I am now three weeks into.
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cweiske it looks like I'm going to use grav for a project, and I want comments enabled properly in there
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cweiske so there is hope that some patches will be coming from my side :)
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cweiske and jeremycherfas++ for taking a php course
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cweiske where is the Loqi when we need it?
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cweiske jeremycherfas++
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Loqi jeremycherfas has 7 karma in this channel (19 overall)
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cweiske !logibug: ++ no detected when inside the text
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jeremycherfas Oh boy. That is VERY exciting news. I have started to look at the new default theme, Quark, and I think the logic of it is much easier to understand. Hoping to build out my child theme and make the switch in the next couple of weeks.
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petermolnar cweiske: is grav still using that gd based image lib that completely strips metadata from the resized images?
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cweiske I've not even began to set it up, so: no idea
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jeremycherfas Is there an easy way I can check for you?
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jeremycherfas I can easily search for a specific file.
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cweiske do you have a image on your blog that has been resized by grav?
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jeremycherfas Probably. But I might also have stripped the exif out myself.
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jeremycherfas Yeah, this one.
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jeremycherfas https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog/remembering-it-later-too
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Loqi [Jeremy Cherfas] Remembering it later, too
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jeremycherfas Original is 750 x 383
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cweiske oh i'm totally flashed. I wrote a response to your remembering-it-later-too post and as soon as the omnibear reply window closed, the comment had appeared on the site already, without me reloading it.
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cweiske aaronpk++ for comment streaming
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Loqi aaronpk has 129 karma in this channel (1604 overall)
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cweiske wait, that wasn't webmention.io
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cweiske aaronpk--
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cweiske voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 11 karma in this channel (110 overall)
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jeremycherfas Nice comment; thanks.
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Zegnat Anyone know if there is some clever way to make nginx serve the newest file from a directory at a specific path? Latest in either time or just from alpha-sorting.
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Zegnat Wondering if I can keep a folder of profile pictures, and just have nginx always serve the latest one as martijn.jpg
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sknebel Zegnat: I don't think it can do that, no.
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[kevinmarks] wow, great explanation of web platform ideas for programmers http://lea.verou.me/2018/02/free-intro-to-web-development-slides-with-demos/
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@marcthiele @jonabaptistella Hey. It is no plugin. It is the concept of the #IndieWeb (https://indieweb.org/). I used Bridgy (https://indieweb.org/Bridgy) to collect webmentions from social media platforms referring to my site. (twitter.com/_/status/979336486532386816)
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kevinmarks.com edited /othering (+511) "add gender examples of othering" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] interesting - the middle one looks like the salmention cascades aaronpk was worried about https://twitter.com/andrestaltz/status/979360748559314945
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@andrestaltz @dominictarr *Flooding gossip*: In a decentralized network of random topology, a message broadcast from one peer will trigger approx. N^2 messages to other N peers. Robust, but very chatty, sends a lot of redundant msgs. šŸ˜¬ https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/DZdjQ2HWkAAuDT8.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/979360748559314945)
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skippy revise USENET!
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skippy s/revise/revive/
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Zegnat Just put it on the blockchain, right?
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skippy #winning
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skippy https://www.hyperledger.org/ actually has some cool stuff going on; but it's hard for people to mentally separate blockchain-the-technology from blockchain-the-cryptocurrency-solution
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theReal33mhz [kevinmarks] I'm not sure what "single point of failure" is supposed to mean in that explanation.
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[kevinmarks] it means silo
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petermolnar the revival of USENET is SSBC
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skippy what is SSBC?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SSBC" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "SSBC is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat Hmm. Secure Scuttlebutt? (Not sure what the final C would be then.)
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aaronpk "Secure Scuttlebutt Consortium" https://github.com/ssbc
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sknebel what is SSB?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SSB" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "SSB is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel SSB is /Secure_Scuttlebutt
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /SSB (+31) "prompted by sknebel and redirect added by sknebel" (view diff)
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skippy interesting.
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sknebel re the graphs above, salmention isn't a random network though, it forms a clean tree. the risk is more correct handling of it
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skippy folks here using SSB?
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Zegnat Been thinking about it, but I like my HTTP too much
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dgold why isn't USENET the revival of USENET?
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[kevinmarks] I may be misremembering, but there was a concern that salmentions notifying all previous thread notes could cascade, but I think you're right about that being a mishandling (ie mentioning upstream when you have updated due to a downstream mention alone)
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[tantek] Aaronpk have you tried out Swarmā€™s new edit checking feature, and more importantly, considering adding Update support to OwnYourSwarm?
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skippy running one's own USENET server is hard. The software hasnt been updated much, last I look.
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skippy what is salmention?
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Loqi Salmentions are a protocol extension to Webmention to propagate comments and other interactions upstream by sending a webmention from a response to the original post when the response itself receives a response (comment, like, etc.) https://indieweb.org/salmention
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aaronpk [tantek]: ownyourswarm has actually always supported updates, because of some implementation details of how the api and their web hooks work!
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aaronpk sometimes a checkin is created with no content, and then the checkin later gets content added somehow, so I had to support sending updates from the beginning
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aaronpk also photos often appear much later due to the asynchronous uploading, so those are also sent as an update
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[tantek] Very cool. But those are all additions. The new feature is ability to edit checkin text - probably worth testing at least
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[tantek] Also adding/removing who you were with
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aaronpk it does it as a replace, so it's already there
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aaronpk you do have to support micropub updates in order for it to work of course
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tantek right, that too. still likely worthy of trying it out to make sure it works e.g. on your site
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tantek and then maybe a heads-up to folks using it e.g. via with Micropub WP plugin
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aaronpk hm, here's something that has a new side effect
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aaronpk since previously you could only add text to a checkin, the syndication rules were always consistently applied
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tantek previously you could only *comment* on a checkin
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aaronpk but now you might change the text to remove one of the words that caused a syndication, or you might add a word that triggers syndication in the update
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tantek oh, specific to ownyourswarm got it
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aaronpk yeah, OYS has some configuration options to syndicate the post based on keyword matching
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aaronpk or whether it contains a photo
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aaronpk I suspect the most common case will be someone edits the checkin to add a keyword to cause it to syndicate somewhere, so I think I will add support for that and skip the rest of the cases
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tantek that makes sense. not worth unsyndicating
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GWG Did someone say WP?
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Zegnat I am going sight-seeing this weekend and am actually trying to quickly put a checkin posting flow together. But is anyone doing checkins outside of Swarm these days?
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GWG Zegnat, I support them, but the functionality is not fully developed
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GWG I keep postponing doing venue support
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GWG Right now, trying to track down a few Micropub bugs
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aaronpk glennjones maybe? he had some neat demos IIRC
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tantek GWG just curious if you know how well the WP micropub plugin supports updates, per the new features in Swarm
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tantek aaronpk: oh yeah he did at IWC Brighton
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Zegnat I currently just have a text field for venue
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GWG tantek, the Micropub plugin supports updates
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GWG I just found a syndication bug I want to fix though
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GWG I don't think the update functionality couldn't use some improvement, but it does work.
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tantek GWG have you tried checking in with Swarm with some text in your checkin, and then editing that text later in Swarm and seeing what happens on your checkin on your site?
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GWG Not yet, but should.
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GWG I checked in last night at a kosher hibachi restaurant
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Zegnat Has the WP plugin been tested against micropub.rocks? Then I donā€™t think any further testing is neccessary right?
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GWG I think snarfed did
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Zegnat should try get an implementation report done for Sink next week
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snarfed https://micropub.rocks/implementation-reports/servers/27/Ouvg5VCJrclDWHUtQHXA
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aaronpk nice
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GWG snarfed, I am going to keep trying to remove every PHP notice in my server log, by the way.
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snarfed oddly there are two other server reports in there, "Wordpress with IndieWeb Plugins" and "Wordpress." no clue what they are. https://micropub.rocks/implementation-reports/servers/
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snarfed GWG: ok...? sounds very low priority? i'd definitely vote for tracking down and fixing that post status bug instead.
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Zegnat Looks like it passed on updating, so all should be fine with OYS
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snarfed testing++ never hurts though. everything changes
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Loqi testing has 9 karma in this channel (28 overall)
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GWG snarfed, I am on the trail of that bug. I think something isn't getting set, and the notices are my clue to what.
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snarfed hmm. maybe!
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snarfed aaronpk: low priority: the "Wordpress with IndieWeb Plugins" and "Wordpress" reports on https://micropub.rocks/implementation-reports/servers/ are probably misleading dupes of the wordpress-micropub report; maybe consider deleting them
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aaronpk tantek: I don't actually see how to edit my swarm comment in swarm
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tantek aaronpk: "..." menu top right, Edit
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aaronpk when i'm looking at a checkin?
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aaronpk there is no "..."
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aaronpk is there a time window in which you can edit the checkin?
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aaronpk huh, I don't see it on a new checkin either
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tantek yes there is either a time window, or an absolute cut-off (checkins before edits were allowed are not editable for sure)
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tantek screenshots coming
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[tantek] Slack for iOS Upload.jpg https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F9XQ7SX9P/image_uploaded_from_ios.png?pub_secret=079bf4cbe1&name=Image uploaded from iOS.png
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[tantek] Slack for iOS Upload.jpg https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F9ZD3CP1D/image_uploaded_from_ios.png?pub_secret=dc4908d9ff&name=Image uploaded from iOS.png
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tantek feel free to upload those to the wiki - I have to run
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aaronpk weird I definitely don't have that button
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aaronpk and I have the latest swarm
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aaronpk and just tried a new checkin
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tantek you don't have the top left "..." or the ( Edit ) above the ( Delete )
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aaronpk I have a trash can where you have the "..."
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[tantek] Latest Swarm app in App Store talks about editing in the release notes!
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pstuifzand i'm trying to improve my webmentions
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pstuifzand at the moment i only send to in-reply-to and like-of urls
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aaronpk yeah I don't know why I don't have the edit option. I have the latest version installed, and I see the release notes
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pstuifzand should I sent to all A tags on the source page?
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aaronpk anywhere you'd want your post to show up as a comment
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aaronpk comment/like/response
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aaronpk I include any <a> tags inside the content, but not to links that are like in my website footer
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pstuifzand I'm trying to use bridgy for github (and send webmentions there), but I don't want to make to many special cases
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pstuifzand so anything inside the h-entry
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aaronpk yeah, I actually run my post through a microformats parser and then send to any URLs in the h-entry
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pstuifzand ok, thanks
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Zegnat I use https://github.com/Zegnat/php-linkextractor to find all links in an HTML document for sending webmentions
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Loqi [Zegnat] php-linkextractor: Class for finding all resources an HTML document links to.
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@ChrisAldrich @openetc Have you considered adding the webmention plugins for site to site conversation between participants? https://indieweb.org/Webmention https://indieweb.org/Wordpress_Webmention_Plugin (twitter.com/_/status/979415801051648000)
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loqi.me edited /portfolio (+402) "[chrisaldrich] added "https://twitter.com/Videlais/status/979415660093755394" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+337) "[chrisaldrich] added "https://twitter.com/johnjohnston/status/979419363148226560" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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@ludovicchabant @bleroy FYI Iā€™ve been hacking around these things lately, making PieCrustā€™s admin panel support Micropub (https://indieweb.org/Micropub) so I can post from apps like http://Micro.blog, and also partial Webmention (https://indieweb.org/Webmention) support. Itā€™s fun! (twitter.com/_/status/979439775349223424)
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pstuifzand I got it working, the posts are now automatically added to Github as issues and comments (via webmention with Bridgy)
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aaronpk nice
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cweiske could you give a link to the repo with the posts?
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pstuifzand https://github.com/pstuifzand/microsub-server/issues
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cweiske I don't understand what you're doing.
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cweiske so you post to your site, and your site creates a github issue?
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aaronpk posseing issues and comments to github
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snarfed ooh finally a second microsub server implementation
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aaronpk exciting
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pstuifzand re: microsub it's working pretty well even without saving the posts
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snarfed hah, just-in-time feed fetching?
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aaronpk hah interesting
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pstuifzand yes it has a memory cache that keeps the whole page/feed in memory
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aaronpk i guess the clients won't really know the difference!
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aaronpk have you tried using it with monocle? you should be able to log in at https://monocle.p3k.io
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Loqi Monocle
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pstuifzand since a few days is has a redis backend to keep the unread states
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pstuifzand yes i use it with monocle at the moment
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aaronpk wow nice
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pstuifzand I used it to read the chat, when I don't have access to IRC
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aaronpk !
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cweiske I found that nearly all wordpress instances offer atom feeds (even if they don't link it) at /feed/atom, and more importantly, they offer separate atom feeds for each post that contain the comments for the posts, thanks to the atom threading extension
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cweiske so no need to parse mf2 just to display comments in the feed reader
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aaronpk that's a feature i want to add somehow, being able to subscribe to the comments of an individual post
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aaronpk sometimes i come across something and i want to see the discussion about it as it unfolds
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[kevinmarks] Hah, that's crafty. I could probably do that with unmung, I already have a memcache for mf2 parsing
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cweiske turns out tt-rss already shows the comment count in the interface - http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2018/2018-03-29%20tt-rss%20comment%20count%20display.png
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kaushalmodi aaronpk: "that's a feature i want to add somehow" +1
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cweiske now I only need to build a plugin that fetches the comments
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aaronpk neat
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kaushalmodi where would that feature be implemented though?
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cweiske atom threading info: https://indieweb.org/Atom#Comments
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kaushalmodi Thinking from my perspective (Hugo static site), I need to first make comments part of the feed
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snarfed aaronpk: cleverdevil and i discussed comments in readers yesterday. microsub servers are actually in a good position to do this, at least on a best effort basis, eg for mf2 feeds and maybe atom threading
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aaronpk the simplest version is having the post's permalink show comments and marking those up with mf2. a lot of sites already do that, and it's documented on the wiki
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aaronpk then the microsub server can watch that post for new comments
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snarfed right, or more simply just extract them whenever it fetches
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snarfed (staying up to date with new ones is harder)
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cweiske 25% of the internet have comments via atom threading :)
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snarfed we'd need to specify the comments schema in mf2 items, ie how they're returned, and if/when they should be updated, or if it's entirely best effort
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aaronpk that's already there
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/comments#How_to_markup
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aaronpk just not a lot of consumers of it right now
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snarfed oh no, sorry, i mean the schema in microsub responess
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aaronpk cweiske: i'd likely support the atom version of it as well, like i support subscribing to atom feeds
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[kevinmarks] Atom has a decent way of pointing to related feeds
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snarfed and then, stretch goal, have readers support replying to comments as well as posts
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cweiske I've got a fresh grav setup, using grav for the first time and already begin to dislike it
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cweiske a) slow
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cweiske b) too tiny scrollbar in admin that can't be reached easily
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cweiske you can't even push the mouse to the right side of the screen to scroll because the scrollbar is some pixels further left
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cweiske maybe it's only for mac users
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gRegorLove what is grav?
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Loqi Grav is a flat-file CMS built on PHP, with Twig templating, and YAML + Markdown for storing articles (YAML for metadata, Markdown for the content) https://indieweb.org/Grav
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cweiske ha. https://github.com/getgrav/grav-plugin-admin/issues/810
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Loqi [Tamriel] #810 Scrollbar not at right border
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cweiske "but I don't think it effects usability."
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gregorlove.com edited /feed_reader (+65) "/* Examples */ Inoreader" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Fitt's law, derp
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cweiske from the grav readme: "Markdown is a better way to write HTML, without all the complexities and ugliness that usually accompanies it."
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cweiske let's look at the grav readme: http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2018/2018-03-29%20markdown%20is%20so%20readable.png
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cweiske [x] complexity
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cweiske [x] ugliness
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[kevinmarks] html is not complex or ugly. that's JSX
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[kevinmarks] and bootstrap. https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/978330463671595008
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@kevinmarks @evanderkoogh @jensimmons Bootstrap is pretty much colspan with extra syntactic vinegar, but the table always has 12 columns. (twitter.com/_/status/978330463671595008)
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aaronpk oh boy looks like instagram changed their json again
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sknebel I'm positively surprised, for now the inoreader API seems to map quite well to microsub
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sknebel (at least the bits that are there)
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snarfed sknebel: yup, most reader APIs do. https://snarfed.org/microsub-bridge#Existing+readers+and
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sknebel looks like if they didn't do short-lived tokens I could get away without remembering user details at all
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snarfed sknebel: what are you building?
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sknebel microsub bridge for inoreader
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snarfed cool!!!
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snarfed do you plan to eventually open it up to other users?
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snarfed consider abstracting out the inoreader specifics a bit, if possible. once it's ready, i'm sure some of us here would happily add support for other readers
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sknebel will look into that. since I've been using it to learn asyncio too I can't just throw it on free AppEngine, but I'll see what happens
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snarfed it's backported to python 2, https://github.com/vstinner/trollius/
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sknebel I know, but doesn't appengine want an WSGI application or something on that level?
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sknebel although I guess one could wrap that somehow
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snarfed yup
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snarfed i eventually plan(ned) to try a microsub bridge in either https://apigee.com/ or https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/ , both very high level serverless JS platforms, since it's basically just a simple HTTP proxy that transforms request and response bodies
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snarfed ...but if you open source yours and host it, i'd happily contribute to it instead
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snarfed (^ also, critically, apigee and cloudflare workers also have free tiers good enough for this)
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sknebel CF workers have a free tier?
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snarfed yup, https://www.cloudflare.com/plans/#compare-features
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[cleverdevil] I've been too busy to really participate much today, but I did find a great way to run Python WSGI apps as Lambda functions relatively transparently.
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[cleverdevil] Pretty good option, too.
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[cleverdevil] (Obviously, there's a performance penalty, but should be fine for many use cases)
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snarfed [cleverdevil]++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 21 karma in this channel (77 overall)
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sknebel snarfed: you can use them with the free plan, but you always have to buy at least 10 million requests per month
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snarfed ah, ok, fair. $5/mo isn't much though.
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sknebel yeah
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[kevinmarks] appengine is pretty close to serverless in many ways (I give snarfed credit for a lot of that)
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snarfed warm fuzzies!
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sknebel aaronpk: what about items that changed?
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grantcodes I started a repo of JF2 format post examples: https://github.com/grantcodes/jf2-examples
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Loqi [grantcodes] jf2-examples: A bunch of example JF2 format posts. Very useful for testing
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grantcodes Only have a few for now so please add more if you wish.
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grantcodes Eventually I'll get it to generate an actual feed that anyone can use for testing