#dev 2018-04-20

2018-04-20 UTC
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@JmacDotOrg Opinionated Perl nerds: Is “Web::Mention” a good name for an implementation of a tech called “Webmention”, or should I avoid cuteness and go for the banal brutality of “Web::Webmention” or whatever. (“Webmention” is neither my invention nor my name for it.) (twitter.com/_/status/987147558152794112)
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skippy I finally finished up my personal micropub server implementation: https://github.com/skpy/micropub
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Loqi [skpy] micropub: a minimal PHP micropub endpoint, with media support
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@JmacDotOrg ↩️ Leaning towards WWW::Webmention, on theory that a charmingly affected stutter is preferable to a full-bore Max Headroom effect (twitter.com/_/status/987152846599741440)
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@genehack ↩️ @JmacDotOrg Well, as long as you put “webmention” in the synopsis I don’t think you’ll hurt discoverability that much… (twitter.com/_/status/987162802438602752)
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tantek that's some good bikeshedding right there ^^^
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Zegnat !mf https://00dani.me/
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Kaja__ https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2F00dani.me%2F
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Zegnat !tell oodani looks like a definitive problem with Indiewebify, you can’t ever have multiple representative cards. Parsing specifies to always take the first one that matches the requirements. http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-h-card-parsing
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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oodani yeah i noticed that! it /does/ show you the first one it found, but it shouldn't really be complaining that there are multiple since. there aren't
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Zegnat Sounds like you got it all figured out then :)
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petermolnar can a h-review be nested in a h-entry? would it make sense?
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Zegnat Anything can be nested. But what is the usecase?
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Zegnat aaronpk’s reviews are not wrapped in entries, as most data can just put on the h-review: https://aaronparecki.com/reviews
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Elgato Cam Link
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petermolnar that's why I'm asking; I have a long entry about a smartphone and fixes to it, but I want to add a rating to it
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petermolnar so the thought is to nest the h-review in the h-entry
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petermolnar but I'm uncertain if things would parse it
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Zegnat Hmm. Not sure. Who are you envisioning as the consumer though? h-feed readers will still be displaying the contents as long as it is part of the h-entry’s e-content.
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Zegnat And if you want Google to pick up on it, it doesn’t really matter where on the page the review markup is, I believe.
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swentel aaronpk, do you have an example somewhere of a webmention with an rsvp in the payload ?
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Zegnat What is rsvp?
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Loqi An RSVP is a reply to an event post that says whether the sender is or is not attending, might attend, or is just interested in the event https://indieweb.org/rsvp
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Zegnat Probably take one of the example posts from there, swentel? https://indieweb.org/rsvp#IndieWeb_Examples
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cweiske petermolnar, I use hreview (v1) because google supports it: http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/patriot-tab-16gb.htm
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swentel well, I've looked there, which is great for microformatting, but wanted to see where it's nested in the payload hook that gets send then in a webmention
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cweiske https://www.google.com/search?hl=de&q=http%3A%2F%2Fcweiske.de%2Ftagebuch%2Fpatriot-tab-16gb.htm
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swentel but I guess I should just send one :)
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swentel and look at the incoming request
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Zegnat A payload hook? Are we talking about a specific webmention service?
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Zegnat (Webmentions do not have a payload other than URLs.)
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swentel oh sorry
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swentel so when using webmention.io
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swentel you can configure the endpoint
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swentel and that sends the data to my site
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swentel so to the webhook
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Zegnat Aah, gotcha
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swentel but I guess rsvp will be nested underneath "post"
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swentel with yes/maybe/no/interested as a value
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Zegnat I know that tantek uses the webmention.io API endpoint to grab the data like so: https://webmention.io/api/mentions.jf2?wm-property=rsvp&sort-by=rsvp&target=http://tantek.com/2018/080/e1/homebrew-website-club-sf
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Zegnat Maybe what you get on the hook will look the same, but I have never used the webhook
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swentel aha
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swentel that's what I needed :)
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swentel thanks!
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swentel ok it's the jf2 format
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swentel but oh well
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swentel that's fine
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Zegnat You can probably change the API endpoint URL for other formats? Maybe :P
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swentel yeah
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Zegnat At least it is an example web page that gets its RSVP data from webmention.io.
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swentel just remove the .jf2 extension :)
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Zegnat tantek uses a service by ben_thatmustbeme to generate it into icons on the fly, see: http://tantek.com/2018/080/e1/homebrew-website-club-sf
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swentel oh, that is cool indeed
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swentel another issue for the drupal plugin heh
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kaushalmodi cweiske++ Very cool! Didn't know about hreviews
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kaushalmodi So Google translates this: <p class="summary"> <abbr class="rating"> <span class="value-title" title="2"/> Don't buy it. </abbr> </p> to 2/5 stars?
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Loqi cweiske has 36 karma in this channel (140 overall)
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kaushalmodi A bit more digging gives me this: https://builtvisible.com/using-hreview-microformat-on-your-review-page/
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Zegnat What is review?
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Loqi A review is an evaluation of a product or service, usually involving a written description, but can also be limited to a numerical scale https://indieweb.org/review
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Zegnat Here is the full story about Google and the markup they consume, kaushalmodi: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/12/17/8/owning-my-reviews
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Why Microformats? Owning My Reviews
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Zegnat Web Share Target API is getting closer! Now on the Canary version of Chrome on Android. https://paul.kinlan.me/web-share-target-api/
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kaushalmodi Zegnat: Thanks!
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aaronpk swentel: sorry I need to add more docs to webmention.io. But the Web hooks use the jf2 format, so if you run an rsvp post through XRay that's what you'll get from webmention.io
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@sandhawke ↩️ So... how do you feel about the WG *also* standardizing stuff that competes with AS and AP, including WebMention, Micropub, and WebSub? Once the group gave up on convergence, some folks moving forward with AS/AP wasn't really an obstacle. (twitter.com/_/status/987353633657425920)
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aaronpk Wow what a weird parsing bug on some of my last mentions from ownyourswarm
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aaronpk XRay gets a weird author name from it, and I don't understand why
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aaronpk its only on some of them, not all of them
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aaronpk https://ownyourswarm.p3k.io/checkin/5ad9e3339fca56002c378a54/5ada0272ba57b4002cbab10a
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Loqi [https://igx.4sqi.net/img/user/300x300/476_1236324454.jpg Tantek Çelik] Safe travels!
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aaronpk OYS hasn't changed recently, I did change something unrelated in XRay yesterday, so I'm confused
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sknebel did you maybe not deploy whatever you had changed before?
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aaronpk I did an update in XRay yesterday to handle Instagram URLs, but it was limited to Instagram parsing.
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aaronpk I don't understand how the photo url could appear in the h-card name when the mf2 result looks correct
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aaronpk Ohh there's no p-name class in the OYS html. That's weird
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aaronpk So somehow I'm using a version of the mf2 parser that includes the img src in the implied name
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: implied name is supposed to include src from the image while getting the text content
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aaronpk Yea I'm not sure how I messed up the html for so long, or why it only now is a problem
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Zegnat Hmm, latest PHP version of the parser? Has been a while between releases right? Maybe something changed there.
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skippy aaronpk: is there a reason that Quill has a "title" in the editor UI, but submits that value as "name" in the micropub?
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aaronpk Speaking of which, we need to do a new release. I forgot we're on an -alpha
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skippy ah, just answered my own question.
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skippy http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry has no "title"; just "name". I see.
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML. ...
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aaronpk "name" is the h-entry vocab for it , maybe I should rename it in the UI
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KartikPrabhu maybe something like "post name" would be clearer
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sknebel "name" seems less clear
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skippy As a relative newbie, I'm used to my content have "titles", not "names". the Quill UI makes sense to me; but the post body was surprising until I read the spec.
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aaronpk Oh maybe it's been a while since I've gotten a comment from swarm! That seems entirely possible that it's been longer ago than the mf2 parser update that changed the implied name parsing
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skippy oh, and TIL that there is no MF2 "note". Notes are just entries without titles. Hrm.
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KartikPrabhu skippy: yes, those are intentional decisions to prevent blowing up of many vocabularies which do the same thing
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KartikPrabhu what is post type discovery
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Loqi Post Type Discovery specifies an algorithm for determining the type of a post by what properties it has and potentially what value(s) they have, which helps avoid the need for explicit post types that are being abandoned by modern post creation UIs https://indieweb.org/post-type-discovery
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KartikPrabhu skippy: see ^
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skippy i see.
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Zegnat aaronpk, I think the php-mf2 alpha is only whitespace testing? Not sure if anything is in the alpha that is neccessary for release.
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skippy the MP spec defines "in-reply-to" but does not specifically address "repost".
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skippy Are MP clients scraping the source site for posting locally, or do folks do that manually and include a "repost of" MP attribute?
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KartikPrabhu micropub clients should not be doing any scraping
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skippy what are workflow examples of reposts? I assume many will use Bridgy to backfeed; but i'm more interested in POSSE.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "workflow examples of reposts" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "workflow examples of reposts is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat MP spec should also not be defining vocabulary ...
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KartikPrabhu what is bridgy publish?
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Loqi Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed and POSSE as a service https://indieweb.org/Bridgy_Publish
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KartikPrabhu skippy: ^ bridgy does POSSE too
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Zegnat Skippy, any MP client may submit any valid microformats JSON representation. So if someone is reposting, they should submit that as a property on the entry they are sending to their MP endpoint
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GWG Lots of good conversation today
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GWG Any Micropub client supporting q=category?
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martymcgui.re edited /next-hwc (+0) "next actual HWC" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next hwc" (view diff)
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@MisterKapowski Managed to get things working 😀 mainly by switching to the IndieAuth PHP client, instead of rolling my own code with Guzzle. Then I figured out why it wasn’t working, but didn’t see the point in switching back… (twitter.com/_/status/987386881225773056)
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sknebel aaronpk: so this is a terrible hack, but for microsub demo-purposes you could maybe make an aperture instance and block all POST-requests to it? then it'd be effectively read-only
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aaronpk oh like so others can make microsub api requests to it?
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aaronpk not a terrible idea. i could make it not require any authenication also.
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sknebel or make some automatic auth, since the clients probably expect being able to auth
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sknebel forgot about that bit
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aaronpk yeah could do the commentpara.de thing that lets anyone authenticate at the server
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aaronpk or could actually just use commentpara.de as the user account haha
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sknebel would need to add an microsub link
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aaronpk ah right
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sknebel although hacking selfauth to not ask for a password would be very easy
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sknebel the "cut off POST requests" was just a random thought, since you had mentioned looking for ways to easily let people try microsub
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skippy dgold: thanks for publishing nanopub! It helped me a lot to build my own micropub endpoint! https://github.com/skpy/micropub
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Loqi [skpy] micropub: a minimal PHP micropub endpoint, with media support
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skippy it's a work in progress, but coming together quite nicely for what I desire.
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dgold hey! excellent!
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dgold that's really what I want nanopub to be!
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dgold this is the way I got it to do what I wanted, feel free to use it or to take inspiration from it.
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dgold sort of thing
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dgold oooh, I like what you did with the syndication endpoints
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Zegnat Oh man, I think the URL resolving code in php-mf2 might not be compliant. But I really do not feel like writing URL resolving code :/
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dgold in the ?q=config
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aaronpk Zegnat: i wrote that code! I spent a lot of time on it too, feel free to file issues
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sknebel Zegnat: in what way?
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aaronpk there are some really tricky examples in the tests
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Zegnat So I was just doing some minor rewriting to the u- parsing to move resolution down the chain (per mf parsing spec issue #10). The move made me fail one test, which isn’t too shabby.
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Zegnat But I now get the URL value "http://example.com/Awesome example website". And from my reading of the WHATWG URL spec, spaces in the path must be percent encoded: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#path-percent-encode-set
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Zegnat And just look at the resolving code, it doesn’t ever seem to do percent encoding?
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Zegnat s/look/looking/
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Zegnat is just going to accept spaces as spaces in his URL for first commit
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Zegnat Going to leave the URL issue alone for now. Is tricky, as we do not want to be double-encoding. Filed a PR for the resolve-last
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www.boffosocko.com edited /microcast (+115) "microcast discovery on micro.blog" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /unlisted (+380) "shorten dfn, indieweb examples stub, silo examples with FB hide from feed" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek: i know you don't see github notifs, so just fyi, i fixed the html escaping in github bridgy publish
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tantek.com edited /this-week-in-the-indieweb (+98) "/* Ideas */ check site home page module ideas too" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed++ awesome!
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Loqi snarfed has 56 karma in this channel (376 overall)
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tantek I do check github notifications manually once in a while
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eddiehinkle.com edited /microcast (+181) "Update 30+ and Author’s Note microcasts" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed, have you thought about how to backfeed stuff like "added the publish label", and "closed this in link-to-pull-request n hours ago" ?
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snarfed tantek: heh no i have not
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tantek "added the publish label" could be sent by Bridgy backfeed as a /tag-reply
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snarfed one key point is that right now realistically i can only backfeed things that show up in your notifications
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tantek similarly "removed the publish label" as an /untag reply
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snarfed and i suspect label changes don't
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tantek ah
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tantek hmm in notifications webview I just see lists of issues without saying *what* changed in the
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tantek them*
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snarfed oh that's fine, i can pull details from the API
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snarfed it's just that notifs is the only scalable way i have to find leads on things to backfeed in the first place
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snarfed thought i wrote this up briefly somewhere, but haven't found it yet
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snarfed raw unfiltered notes: https://snarfed.org/github_notes
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snarfed regardless, feel free to file issues for anything you want, i can annotate them with whether they're currently possible
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tantek I'll capture them in wiki brainstorming first, when I'm ready to implement, I'll file issues
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tantek.com edited /GitHub (+339) "/* Backfeed */ more backfeed possibilities, note Bridgy handles a bunch already" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /untag-of (+19) "r" (view diff)
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snarfed.org edited /GitHub (+29) "/* Backfeed */ bridgy backfeeds reactions" (view diff)
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snarfed lol https://www.pcmoto.net is currently trying to bridgy publish every single one of its posts
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snarfed despite the fact that it's not actually signed up for bridgy 😂
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tantek.com edited /SmugMug (+39) "Flickr acquisition relevant, add to dfn" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /SmugMug (+44) "since 2002!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Flickr (-5) "founded 2004" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /this-week-in-the-indieweb (+416) "/* Ideas */ cluster a bit, summarize ideas, expand with some details" (view diff)
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peterstuifzand.nl edited /Microsub (+112) "/* Servers */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /unlisted (+295) (view diff)
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